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Old 23-06-2018   #1
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Driving Techniques

Recently there have been a few questions about driving techniques, use of handbrake, parking in gear, clutch control, etc. The sort of stuff that might be expected to be understood while learning, but appears to raise questions in thinking drivers later. Perhaps missed during learning, or not fully understood.

It is good that these questions are asked, despite experienced drivers being surprised at them. It is good that people wish to learn and be a better driver.

So ask away. There's no such thing as a silly question. (Might regret that later)
Hopefully everything can be explained without having to draw diagrams!
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Old 23-06-2018   #2
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Re: Driving Techniques

I had some further training yesterday.

With a MOTORWAY agenda..
Explained a LOT of the principles of the current model regarding 'smart motorways'...and the tech behind them..

Semi-higblight was the 2,5 minute video
(About flow ..vs bunching)
Containing 100% FIAT 126 VEHICLES.
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Last edited by varesecrazy; 23-06-2018 at 12:39.
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Old 23-06-2018   #3
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Re: Driving Techniques

Why isn't overtaking part of the driving test?



I was a passenger in a car the other week and the driver sat on the back bumper of a van in front doing 40-45mph in a sixty zone. Instead of moving back to a safe distance and waiting for a gap he kept pulling out into the oncoming lane and back behind the van.

On the way back we swapped seats and I explained what he was doing wrong and why he was a danger to himself and everyone else on the road.

We were held up a bit by a caravan on the same road so I...

1/ Held back to a safe distance where I could actually see round it.
2/ Noticed a gap big enough.
3/ Signaled my intention to overtake.
4/ Closed the gap making sure I was on the right hand side of the road as soon as the gap to the caravan was less two seconds.
5/ Passed safely without incident.

...all in a fraction of the time we were stuck behind the van because he couldn't see round it.

After the overtake he said.

"Nobody has ever shown me how to do that".

He passed his test five years ago. I'm amazed he has survived this long.
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Old 23-06-2018   #4
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Re: Driving Techniques

Is it good practice to always use your handbrake even if parking in gear. I have heard that this can cause the it to ‘stick’. Also heard in the cold it’s a good idea to only partially apply your handbrake
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Old 23-06-2018   #5
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Re: Driving Techniques

Quote Originally Posted by MattHarris19872016 View Post
Is it good practice to always use your handbrake even if parking in gear. I have heard that this can cause the it to ‘stick’. Also heard in the cold it’s a good idea to only partially apply your handbrake


Oh come on this has to be a wind up : This has to be a case of wicked humor or just sheer stupidity. Am I just missing something here?
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Old 23-06-2018   #6
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Re: Driving Techniques

Something I’ve heard doesn’t sound too safe though.
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Old 23-06-2018   #7
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Re: Driving Techniques

Quote Originally Posted by MattHarris19872016 View Post
Also heard in the cold it’s a good idea to only partially apply your handbrake
I de-shoe'd the rear brakes of my Rover 213S

I parked at work for a night shift as usual. The temperature dropped to -14'C and when I set off in the morning I disengaged the handbrake as normal but the asbestos part of the shoe was stuck to the drum. I only managed to move a few feet when the rear wheels locked up.











Photo's

1/ -14'C I took a photo to demonstrate that all windows needed to be clear.
2/ Pad-less shoes...
3/ ...because they fell off as soon as I removed the drums.
4/ New slave cylinders, shoes and cleaned the springs and adjusters. Had to make sure they worked.
5/ Someone noticed me having fun in the snow and decided as my Rover was basically a Honda he would add 10bhp.

Modern cars and dare I say it better glue I wouldn't worry as much about parking in extreme cold. Not that we've had any since then. The coldest it has been (round 'ere) is -8'C and cycled to work in shorts that day.
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Old 23-06-2018   #8
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Re: Driving Techniques

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
Perhaps missed during learning, or not fully understood.
This does instructors a disservice, I think it’s more a case of the student not listening or not understanding, as is proven a few posts below yours where the main instigator of these questions has posted proving that despite a whole thread dedicated to the subject of parking and using gears, he has clearly still missed the point
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Old 23-06-2018   #9
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Re: Driving Techniques

Quote Originally Posted by Liquid Knight II View Post
I de-shoe'd the rear brakes of my Rover 213S
This properly made me laugh ��

It’s a perfect example of 1980s British engineering

That particular model of 200 also reminds me of the father ted episode where he tries to fix a little dent on a brand new car

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Last edited by AndyRKett; 23-06-2018 at 17:46.
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Old 23-06-2018   #10
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Re: Driving Techniques

Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
This properly made me laugh ��

It’s a perfect example of 1980s British engineering

That particular model of 200 also reminds me of the father ted episode where he tries to fix a little dent on a brand new car

https://youtu.be/8mdwAkWvWMw
Hoi! The SD3 was a masterpiece.

"De-shoe'd"

I know a horse can throw a shoe but it was contained within the drum. If it's not the right term of phrase it should be.
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Old 23-06-2018   #11
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Re: Driving Techniques

Crumbs, what have I started here? Might be a full time job answering these.

Quote Originally Posted by Liquid Knight II View Post
Why isn't overtaking part of the driving test?
Can't put anything in the test that is not repeatable, and available at all test centres. Although as many as possible include country roads, which is difficult in major cities. Could drive a whole test and never have a need or opportunity to overtake anything.

My location, 12 miles from the nearest town, means that all my learners drive single carriageway roads with occasional overtake opportunities. It is still possible to have them test ready without ever having had an overtake opportunity, apart from bicycles in town, although the principle is the same, so should relate, if they've paid enough attention. Most of my learners will have made an overtake or several, before passing their test, but without having an assistant n a slow car ahead, we can't make them happen.
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Old 23-06-2018   #12
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Re: Driving Techniques

Quote Originally Posted by MattHarris19872016 View Post
Is it good practice to always use your handbrake even if parking in gear. I have heard that this can cause the it to ‘stick’. Also heard in the cold it’s a good idea to only partially apply your handbrake
Parking in gear is an addition to using the handbrake.
Highway code rule 239: "You MUST apply the parking brake before leaving the vehicle."

A partially applied brake is not applied. Are we trying to achieve a slow roll down the hill rather than a run?

Applying the handbrake in the cold should not cause problems.

Quote Originally Posted by Liquid Knight II View Post
I de-shoe'd the rear brakes of my Rover 213S

I parked at work for a night shift as usual. The temperature dropped to -14'C and when I set off in the morning I disengaged the handbrake as normal but the asbestos part of the shoe was stuck to the drum. I only managed to move a few feet when the rear wheels locked up.
It was probably not just the cold that caused them to stick, but cold added to damp.
In damp conditions, the brake lining material can absorb some moisture. This is not normally a lot, and will dry out very quickly as the brakes are used.
If it has been a particularly wet, or humid day/night, and the brakes have not been used much on the journey (short journey, or a good driver observing well and not needing to brake much), they can still be damp when parked. If this is then followed by a drop in temperature, and in this case it was a significant drop, the water content freezes, sticking the friction material to the drum.
Rare, but not really a fault of the Rover, just bad luck.

Vehicles parked for long periods can have their brakes stick on, as damp gets into the linings, and then they rust onto the drums. Pads stick to discs in the same way.
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Old 23-06-2018   #13
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Re: Driving Techniques

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
Perhaps missed during learning, or not fully understood.
Quote Originally Posted by AndyRKett View Post
This does instructors a disservice, I think it’s more a case of the student not listening or not understanding, as is proven a few posts below yours where the main instigator of these questions has posted proving that despite a whole thread dedicated to the subject of parking and using gears, he has clearly still missed the point
Sorry, not what I meant. Let me try again.
'missed during learning' I did not mean to imply that an instructor had not covered any topic, but that it had not stuck in the learner's brain.
We can explain, we get the correct feedback, we observe, all seems fine on that or later lessons, then it later goes missing from their head. This can apply to almost any learning point and sometimes will not show.
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Last edited by portland_bill; 23-06-2018 at 22:57.
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Old 23-06-2018   #14
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Re: Driving Techniques

On another thread a point was raised about using the handbrake on hill starts.

Many people hold the car on a hill with the footbrake, then when moving away find the clutch bite, to hold the car, then move to the accelerator to apply the power needed to heave the vehicle up the hill. A lazy technique, and not good for the clutch.

With the engine on tickover, the computer is only giving as much fuel as necessary to maintain the tickover speed. Finding the clutch bite loads the engine, the computer responds by adding fuel. Then as the accelerator is pressed, its first movement is actually requesting less fuel than already being applied. This can cause a significant drop in power momentarily, which with some small petrols will cause a stall, or very sluggish movement, which can take some time to recover. Can be dangerous.
This technique can also cause clutch damage. The clutch is designed to drive the car, not catch it if it is rolling backwards. Even a slight roll is asking the clutch to stop the car, then drive it forward. This can tear the centreplate apart.
This is becoming a problem on some automatics that use a manual gearbox with automated control. Dualogic and similar. If held on the brake, the clutch is disengaged. As the brake is released the vehicle starts to roll, then the accelerator is pressed, the automated controls release the clutch, but without the feel a driver can use, and this can destroy the clutch. The handbrake should be used to hold the vehicle, and released as drive is taken up, just like in a manual.
Many auto boxes now use mechanical clutches, so could suffer similarly. This includes twin clutch transmissions. Conventional torque converter gearboxes will tolerate this due to the fluid drive.
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Old 24-06-2018   #15
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Re: Driving Techniques

Quote Originally Posted by portland_bill View Post
Applying the handbrake in the cold should not cause problems.

Rare, but not really the fault of Rover, just bad luck

Vehicles parked for long periods can have their brakes stick on, as damp gets into the linings, and then they rust onto the drums. Pads stick to discs in the same way.
This reminds me of that damn DS3....

Couple of years ago we went away for 18 days, drove down the country in the Mazda left it parked on the dock in the sea air with the handbrake on. Came back to it after the holiday was done, fired it up, drove home 350 miles without incident. Got home, went to move the DS3 which was in the usual spot the Mazda occupies to find the rear pads had welded themselves to the discs..brute force and ignorance was applied and it moved but they'd pitted so badly that they were replaced at the next service.

The Mazda still has the factory rear discs and pads on it at 7 years old, it's expected that they'll last until at least 120k in most cases. The C3 rear discs already look rough. Never underestimate the influence of cheap components, I'd put money on of if I was to swap the rear discs on the Citroens out for a good quality none OEM part they'd not stick anywhere near as much.
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