Would you drive on a flat?

[Bonefish Blues]

I'm not surprised, given in most cases they've reduced 70mph road to a lower average.

That and the prevalence of speed cameras means you're unlikely to get someone blowing through at 100.

However the lack of hard shoulder will always be stupid.

They made the roads demonstrably safer but are still criticised for being stupid. They have now gone because politicians decided that was the correct thing to do. One of the leading lobbyists' partner was killed when after a minor rear end collision he got out of his car in a live lane to exchange details. Both cars were still fully driveable.
Mr Mercer and Mr Murgeanu had pulled over into lane one to inspect damage and exchange details after their minor collision.

I've no dog in this, just a proclivity for preferring evidence-based decisions.

 

[AnthonyH]

Yes i agree with that element of smart motorways, and that’s probably how they are statistically safer, losing the hard shoulder is the dangerous bit to me

I reckon the government decided to cheap out, if they had all smart motorways fixed at 4 lanes we'd not have these extra fatalities.

It'd be nice if the government actually just built new motorways, like most countries elsewhere do.

 

[StevenRB45]

They made the roads demonstrably safer but are still criticised for being stupid. They have now gone because politicians decided that was the correct thing to do. One of the leading lobbyists' partner was killed when after a minor rear end collision he got out of his car in a live lane to exchange details. Both cars were still fully driveable.
Mr Mercer and Mr Murgeanu had pulled over into lane one to inspect damage and exchange details after their minor collision.

I've no dog in this, just a proclivity for preferring evidence-based decisions.

If there had been a hard shoulder...he'd not have done so.

So by all means have the variable lowered limits, and festoon every gantry with speed cameras and monitor the road carefully via a control center. This will lead to safer roads... because it's inevitable it can even as your statistics prove counteract poor road design.

Providing sparse refuge areas and relying on a red X on a sign to provide safety if someone cannot reach them...well that leaves far too much free space for idiots to be idiots.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

One of the main issues with Smart motorways was not the motorways themselves but the way the news reported on them. As is shown they actually reduced accidents, but the press didn't like them and so every time there was a slight bump everyone heard about it and so the unsafe nature of smart motorways entered the public psyche

It is not dissimilar to the current belief that all electric cars will burst into flame as soon as you look at them, yet real world stats show something like 25 electric car fires to 2500 internal combustion fires. but don't let facts get in the way of a good story. I have driven thousands of miles across europe in places with no hard shoulder. I have driven on smart motorways and I have driven hundreds of thousands of miles across the UK on 70 mile an hour Dual Carriage ways with no hard shoulder and no protection if you break down, they often have no real verge you can drive onto. So I am firmly in the Smart motorway camp, the significant improvement they bring is slowing down heavy traffic to keep it moving, rather than the traffic jam arriving at the congestion at 70mph and instead of the off chance of a car needing to stop in the hard shoulder which to be fair is infrequent. crashes involving people crashing into the back of traffic in live lanes because they did not pay attention to the traffic slowing down, people were following too close etc, now those sort of accidents are less likely to happen as the traffic doesn't grind to a halt sudden,

 

[Bonefish Blues]

If there had been a hard shoulder...he'd not have done so.

So by all means have the variable lowered limits, and festoon every gantry with speed cameras and monitor the road carefully via a control center. This will lead to safer roads... because it's inevitable it can even as your statistics prove counteract poor road design.

Providing sparse refuge areas and relying on a red X on a sign to provide safety if someone cannot reach them...well that leaves far too much free space for idiots to be idiots.

A few comments.

Both their cars were driveable. There was no need to stop in a live lane, simply to drive to the next refuge.

They are not 'my' statistics, surprised to hear them described as such.

1 in 12 motorway deaths occur on hard shoulders, they're not safe places. Motorways of any kind are dangerous, albeit motorways, per mile travelled, are the safest roads we have, and our roads are overall the second safest in Europe. But statistics can't counter individual views for many.

 

[StevenRB45]

A few comments.

Both their cars were driveable. There was no need to stop in a live lane, simply to drive to the next refuge.

They are not 'my' statistics, surprised to hear them described as such.

1 in 12 motorway deaths occur on hard shoulders, they're not safe places. Motorways of any kind are dangerous, albeit motorways, per mile travelled, are the safest roads we have, and our roads are overall the second safest in Europe. But statistics can't counter individual views for many.

For me what it comes down is one simple statement.

"If my car was immobilised and as I've experienced no rest areas are available for 5 miles do I trust literally 100s of drivers I've never met before not to kill me when usually I'd not trust them to find their own arse with both hands and a miners lamp?"

The answer to that will always be no.

 

[The Panda Nut]

If there had been a hard shoulder...he'd not have done so.

So by all means have the variable lowered limits, and festoon every gantry with speed cameras and monitor the road carefully via a control center. This will lead to safer roads... because it's inevitable it can even as your statistics prove counteract poor road design.

Providing sparse refuge areas and relying on a red X on a sign to provide safety if someone cannot reach them...well that leaves far too much free space for idiots to be idiots.

I have done so many miles on motorways and I hate them al. Now Im retired I can avoid nearly all thank God. I can say I have had more exposure to danger on smart motorways than ordinary ones and, in vastly less miles driven alongthem proportinally. Coming up behind a stationary vehicle on a live carriageway is not funny and when there are no warnings its not very smart either. I feel unsafe on these roads and do not believe the stats for a millisecond. The M25 is not my favorite place to be, but feels safer, with speed limit variation and signs AND a hard shoulder. The reason for the smart road is pure expediency and has NO relation to safety whatsoever just road building cost. Any stats gathered have been gathered to prove the rules, not verify them. The vast majority of people responding to public consultation re smart motorways were not in favour, and I can understand why.

Air travel is the safest way of travelling. However Im not sure that would apply just to air travel in Boeings. And, when things go wrong its not going to end well, as they say!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Very subjective of course, but I drive the length of the country several times a year - Edinburgh to North Devon and Edinburgh to Salisbury Wilts and return. I've seen a number of potentially very dangerous situations on "smart" all lane running stretches of motorway with vehicles stationary and nearly being run into by moving vehicles but also with vehicles traveling at speed in a red cross lane. I've also seen vehicles broken down on hard shoulders on "normal" motorway but never seen any of those situations causing a problem. Give me a normal hard shoulder any day. "Refuge areas" on smart motorways are a joke, Do any of you own a car which only breaks down when approaching one of these? No, I thought not.

 

[StevenRB45]

Very subjective of course, but I drive the length of the country several times a year - Edinburgh to North Devon and Edinburgh to Salisbury Wilts and return. I've seen a number of potentially very dangerous situations on "smart" all lane running stretches of motorway with vehicles stationary and nearly being run into by moving vehicles but also with vehicles traveling at speed in a red cross lane. I've also seen vehicles broken down on hard shoulders on "normal" motorway but never seen any of those situations causing a problem. Give me a normal hard shoulder any day. "Refuge areas" on smart motorways are a joke, Do any of you own a car which only breaks down when approaching one of these? No, I thought not.

Well when I had my tyre warning...all refuge areas were closed due to storage of equipment for overnight roadworks...all 3 lanes in use though.

Spectacular.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I have done so many miles on motorways and I hate them al. Now Im retired I can avoid nearly all thank God. I can say I have had more exposure to danger on smart motorways than ordinary ones and, in vastly less miles driven alongthem proportinally. Coming up behind a stationary vehicle on a live carriageway is not funny and when there are no warnings its not very smart either. I feel unsafe on these roads and do not believe the stats for a millisecond. The M25 is not my favorite place to be, but feels safer, with speed limit variation and signs AND a hard shoulder. The reason for the smart road is pure expediency and has NO relation to safety whatsoever just road building cost. Any stats gathered have been gathered to prove the rules, not verify them. The vast majority of people responding to public consultation re smart motorways were not in favour, and I can understand why.

Air travel is the safest way of travelling. However Im not sure that would apply just to air travel in Boeings. And, when things go wrong its not going to end well, as they say!

I once came over the brow of a hill on the old Carlisle to Glasgow road A74, it was just a dual carriageway back in those days. I was doing around 65 to 70 mph and as the view of the road unfolded ahead I suddenly realized there had been a major accident completely blocking both lanes. I hammered the brakes on but, initially, wasn't too worried as there seemed to be plenty of distance. It was frightening how quickly that distance reduced and I only just got the car stopped before joining the mayhem. That was in a Mk1 Cortina GT with single circuit brakes and no ABS but I was heavily into club rallying by then and used to controlling slides etc. I'm sure a modern vehicle would anchor up in a shorter distance with ABS but I don't think many of the drivers I see on our motorway network have the slightest idea how far it takes to come to a halt when traveling at motorway speeds and most would simply pile into the car in front, maybe before they even reacted enough to get a foot on the brake pedal. My exRAF and airline pilot brother in law once told me he drove his car as if every other vehicle on the road was trying to have an accident with him - It's not a bad attitude to take!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Very subjective of course, but I drive the length of the country several times a year - Edinburgh to North Devon and Edinburgh to Salisbury Wilts and return. I've seen a number of potentially very dangerous situations on "smart" all lane running stretches of motorway with vehicles stationary and nearly being run into by moving vehicles but also with vehicles traveling at speed in a red cross lane. I've also seen vehicles broken down on hard shoulders on "normal" motorway but never seen any of those situations causing a problem. Give me a normal hard shoulder any day. "Refuge areas" on smart motorways are a joke, Do any of you own a car which only breaks down when approaching one of these? No, I thought not.

Boris Johnson does so I hear....

 

[AnthonyH]

I suppose the question is...

How far do you have to drive to destroy a wheel?

 

[bugsymike]

I suppose the question is...

How far do you have to drive to destroy a wheel?

Often not very far, working in garages I have often taken a tyre off for a puncture and seen all the cords inside the tyre exposed as the sidewalls have over heated.
However I would sooner buy a 100 tyres than be re ended by a lorry whilst changing a wheel on the Motorway.

 

[AnthonyH]

Are you saying the metal wheel will be fine no matter how far the car drives when the tyre is flat?

 

[Greasytrucker]

Are you saying the metal wheel will be fine no matter how far the car drives when the tyre is flat?

Steels tend to fair better if driven flat, once the carcass of a flat tyre breaks up, an alloy soon becomes scrap if driven on flat! But as @bugsymike says, better that than being in hospital!

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Steels tend to fair better if driven flat, once the carcass of a flat tyre breaks up, an alloy soon becomes scrap if driven on flat! But as @bugsymike says, better that than being in hospital!

All my vehicles have spares and I wouldn't hesitate to change a flat. However I wouldn't attempt it unless in a relatively safe place so I'd quite willingly risk writing off a tyre by driving a short distance with it flat to get the car to a safe place.

 

[AnthonyH]

I've just been to look and found a second hand wheel with tyre on ebay for £70.

I no longer carry a spare, i've not had a flat for over 15 years now, and i'm not expecting one in the next 15...instead i carry a tyre inflator, if that fails i could drive off a motorway and then replace the wheel later.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

I've just been to look and found a second hand wheel with tyre on ebay for £70.

I no longer carry a spare, i've not had a flat for over 15 years now, and i'm not expecting one in the next 15...instead i carry a tyre inflator, if that fails i could drive off a motorway and then replace the wheel later.

I'm "old school" - I'd be a basket case driving about without a spare.

 

[bugsymike]

Are you saying the metal wheel will be fine no matter how far the car drives when the tyre is flat?

Only for a short distance, basically damage will happen if abuse is prolonged

 

[AnthonyH]

I'm "old school" - I'd be a basket case driving about without a spare.

When was your last flat?

I have RAC cover, so i wouldn't mind getting towed if that's what happens.