What's made you smile today?

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

@Pugglt Auld Jock and @bugsymike

you can read the abstract of this study here https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0273230001914916
This looked at a number of other studies but basically the evidence tends to suggest that weirdly auto mechanics do not have any greater risk from the asbestos in brakes and transmissions than any other member of the public.

Thanks Andy, I'll be reading that when I've got a moment.Not sure why, Not been able to find any studies on why that might be the case, a theory I have is maybe the fibers in these things are contained when in the brake pad or clutch, when detached from the pad or clutch they are heated up and subjected to a lot of friction which maybe breaks down the fibers into something which then doesn't post so much risk to the lung

Not sure why, Not been able to find any studies on why that might be the case, a theory I have is maybe the fibers in these things are contained when in the brake pad or clutch, when detached from the pad or clutch they are heated up and subjected to a lot of friction which maybe breaks down the fibers into something which then doesn't post so much risk to the lungs

I always understood that it was the asbestos fibres that lodged in the lungs. Brake dust is minute particles, 'dust', not loose fibres, so perhaps that is why mechanics are not at high risk. Broken linings used to reveal their fibre construction, so they might have been more of a risk.
At least from this we are now advised to wash brakes out, with brake clean, or just water. I doubt the dust from 'asbestos-free' friction material is harmless, we just need another 50 years to understand the damage from that.

Quite some years ago we lived in a wee cul de sac next door neighbour was a junior doctor in the hospital. We became friendly because he was restoring an old Lancia Fulvia Zagato in his lockup. We talked about asbestos more than once and I mentioned that it didn't seem to be causing mechanics to drop like flies, unlike the lads in the ship yards who were badly affected - from the asbestos lagging on the steam pipes. Between the two of us we arrived at the same conclusion as you two above. Namely that the friction and heat which causes the wear grinds down the fibres to such a fine powder it looses it's ability to cut into the lungs. Whereas if you cut it or do other stuff then the fibres are liberated into the air, you breathe them and they get stuck into the lungs etc. Might be something in this because we don't, as a trade, seem to be dropping dead all over the place?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

From memory it was a large nut and a coarse spline drive in the brake drum/hub , but I think there may have been a puller, my first boss had a 1200 model that we a saw a lot of, apart from customers versions.
Strangely enough another older mechanic introduced me to changing gear without pressing the clutch on bosses VW, it came in handy when customers had cable or hydraulic issues and we could drive the cars back to garage. Basically with a warm engine , put in gear with handbrake off, turn key and drive away, changing gear was a case of getting the revs correct and gentle pressure on gear lever would aid a quiet gear selection both up and down the box, when you came to a junction again a touch on the accelerator and ease gear lever back into neutral, then start off as before.
None of this involved any crashing or grinding of gears, just a bit of practice.

A very useful skill to learn. I don't think many of "the lads" could do it now. I learned as a spin off from learning how to do power shifts when drag racing. The technique is to shift gear without lifting off the throttle. In drag racing any time at all, even a split second, spent off the throttle is time wasted and given away to the chap in the lane beside you. So you don't lift but brutally wrench the gear lever from one gear to the next whilst very quickly dipping the clutch pedal just enough to break the friction bond of the driven plate. It's absolutely brutal on the gearbox but can save you fractions of a second. Best not done with your road car if you're hoping to drive home in it!

Anyway, one of the many weekends I spent camping out at Santa Pod helping get the original strip up and running, a group of us were talking about power shifting and other related stuff when the subject of clutchless driving came up. I was still at college and couldn't believe, with the limited knowledge of clutches and gearbox I'd acquired up till then, that it was possible. So one of the lads took me out onto the strip and showed me how.

To get rolling you start with the engine dead and first gear selected. Then you turn the key which operates the starter motor and the car "chuggs and lurches" forward as the engine catches. Once on the move you can increase speed in the normal way by depressing the throttle pedal, but soon you're going to need to get into second. You do this by letting off on the throttle and dragging the gear lever into neutral then quickly trying to select second. It won't go in because the synchro rings won't allow it but if you keep pressure on the lever then as the slowing engine RPM and gearbox input shaft RPM coincide you'll be amazed to find the lever moves into second quite, well fairly, easily. Then you just depress the throttle pedal again to continue increasing speed. Other higher gears are selected in the same way. Once you've got "the feel" for it it's actually quite easy but first time you try it it's absolutely terrifying, especially if it's your own car. Changing down is more difficult. Lets say we're going from 3rd into 2nd. Moderate pressure on the accelerator pedal so the engine isn't pulling or in overrun and firmly move the lever into neutral. Now "blip" the engine revs quite hard, but not to stupid RPM. This will increase the engine RPM to more than the input shaft RPM and now firmly force the gear lever towards the 2nd gear position. As the slowing engine RPM and gearbox RPM synchronize you'll find the lever slips in without too much effort. You can do the other downshifts this way. If you need to come to a stop just knock the lever into neutral before actually braking the car to a standstill - or, more brutally, you can just leave it in gear and the engine will stall as you brake the car to a halt. If you've knocked her into neutral before coming to a stop you'll now need to turn the ignition off and stop the engine so you can engage 1st gear ready to twist the ignition key and get going again.

The most arduous journey I've done like this was when my old Cordoba broke it's clutch pedal and I drove her pretty much right across the city, in pretty heavy traffic, doing this without the use of the clutch to get her home. I was able to remove the pedal and weld it up and it lasted for many years and I sold her with that pedal still doing good duty. I wouldn't recommend it though. More usually you'd do this to move the car in an emergency situation. Say to get it off a main road into a side street.

Once you get the feel for doing it you'll find you can be much less brutal with the lever. The synchros take quite a beating so it's something to be only done when necessary. but, once you master it it's really quite fun and satisfying to do.

 

[portland_bill]

When I started in the trade, it was fairly common to recover broken vehicles by driving them. Two days after passing my test (1975) I was despatched to a Morris Marina with no clutch operation. (Slave cylinder so worn, fluid was passing the piston, not moving the piston at all.) There it was head into a cul-de-sac, but a wide turning circle at the end. So start in 1st gear, gently idle to the end of the road, and turn it around, then off out. Approaching the junction, views were good, so adjust speed, pop out through a gap in traffic. Plain sailing down to the roundabout, around and into the workshop. Nowadays, that'd need a recovery truck, or trailer.

Just a few days later, off to a customer's house, drive his car back, about 3 miles, with no brakes. Definitely need to plan ahead, and slow early, using the handbrake for the final stop. Very steep hills adding to the excitement.

Happy days.

Impossible now, with so much more traffic.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Asbestos is a nightmare... I wonder what the next asbestos will be, some material we use extensively now, that we haven't quite figured out is killing us. Scary to think.

I thought on cars, asbestos brakes would be more of an issue for the motor trade who are interacting with it daily / constantly, and perhaps not such an issue for the odd brake job (assuming things wore down properly). But I could be wrong... is it that bad that even infrequent, small exposure can have serious consequences?

Well actually yes it is. But its the luck of the draw whether it knobbles you on the first occasion. Mostly it doesnt or many more would be dead. Im out of touch with the stats but they made very grim reading indeed. I have a bad chest xray result from my occupational health monitoring 25 years ago, I hope it never develops into something. My main contact with Asbestos was at school where the heating pipes were lagged with asbestos flock wrapped in paper. We used to flick the stuff about at each other. Moral of the story is endeavour to take notice of safety instructions on chemicals etc and use recommended PPE. As with all these things they are a pain in the **** and we all like to short cut. Best advice is don't. Easy to say and sometimes not so easy to do.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Thanks Andy, I'll be reading that when I've got a moment.Not sure why, Not been able to find any studies on why that might be the case, a theory I have is maybe the fibers in these things are contained when in the brake pad or clutch, when detached from the pad or clutch they are heated up and subjected to a lot of friction which maybe breaks down the fibers into something which then doesn't post so much risk to the lung


Quite some years ago we lived in a wee cul de sac next door neighbour was a junior doctor in the hospital. We became friendly because he was restoring an old Lancia Fulvia Zagato in his lockup. We talked about asbestos more than once and I mentioned that it didn't seem to be causing mechanics to drop like flies, unlike the lads in the ship yards who were badly affected - from the asbestos lagging on the steam pipes. Between the two of us we arrived at the same conclusion as you two above. Namely that the friction and heat which causes the wear grinds down the fibres to such a fine powder it looses it's ability to cut into the lungs. Whereas if you cut it or do other stuff then the fibres are liberated into the air, you breathe them and they get stuck into the lungs etc. Might be something in this because we don't, as a trade, seem to be dropping dead all over the place?

I suspect the formulation of the brake linings is such that as they wear / burn the particles do their job and are locked up in the ash that we see as dust, and thoise particles are, as we lkow generally caught in teh bodeis natual defences rather than breathed in. Whatever its a good thing.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Whale spotting. Amazing. In due course I will up load some pics.

 

[portland_bill]

Whale spotting. Amazing. In due course I will up load some pics.

Is this in the sea, or at a WalMart?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Whale spotting. Amazing. In due course I will up load some pics.

We've done that a couple of time, one of which was on one of our family trips to the Cape. I surprised my self on one occasion when the captain called out to us "Over there" and pointed towards the horizon where I realized we were looking at whales spouting as they breathed. As we got nearer it became even more impressive until you could hear the sound of them exhaling over the sound of the , quite small, boat we were on. I found I was actually welling up inside, not far from having a tear in my eye. It was a truly awesome experience. One came to have a look at us and glided right down the side of our wee boat tilted slightly so it could look up at us with it's eye as it glided by. If anyone gets the opportunity to ever do this then don't hesitate, it's an almost religious experience.

 

[bugsymike]

Is this in the sea, or at a WalMart?

You get the paint from Walmart for the "spotting", but you may need a long brush.
In Torbay back in the 70s whilst in the Rowing Club we had a Basking Shark come quite close to us in our 3/16ths of an inch thick plywood hulled skiff, which was interesting shall we say.
Often we saw Dolphins/Porpoises? When my children were young they were amazed when I shut off my boat engine and they watched a large Pod playing quite near as we drifted.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Is this in the sea, or at a WalMart?

In the sea!

 

[The Panda Nut]

You get the paint from Walmart for the "spotting", but you may need a long brush.
In Torbay back in the 70s whilst in the Rowing Club we had a Basking Shark come quite close to us in our 3/16ths of an inch thick plywood hulled skiff, which was interesting Myshall we say.
Often we saw Dolphins/Porpoises? When my children were young they were amazed when I shut off my boat engine and they watched a large Pod playing quite near as we drifted.

My son wanted to see the great whites.... I was not so keen even on a 150ft steel hulled boat. In a paper thin skiff, NO THANKS

 

[Cheest]

Is this in the sea, or at a WalMart?

It's Wally World for whale watching in these parts. You can try Lake Michigan, but the whales are on the boats.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Dust from sanding hard woods are bad also I understand.

This is true. When I taught the motor repair courses there was also a woodworking/joiners class in the same establishment. I became quite friendly with the joiner who ran it and asked him why sometimes he wore a mask and others not. He told me exactly what you say above, the dust from hardwoods, especially if you're using power tools on it, is dangerous to the lungs and can cause serious problems like emphysema. So, even if using a dust extractor, always wear a dust mask.

 

[Johnbee]

Caution - Non FIAT, but it’s whats made me smile today

After 2 years of searching and viewing almost 50 campervans, I finally put down a deposit on a VW California with the exact spec I’ve been looking for. It’s just over a year old, 8000 miles and remainder of a transferable 5 year servicing and warranty plan. I pick it up at the end of October, once I’ve paid the balance. Had a great long test drive and apart from the front trade plate confusing the parking sensor it was truly superb

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Golf has passed another MOT for another year, no advisories. This will see it through till it’s 10th birthday next September (how has that been 10 years already!)

Total breakdowns in the last 9 years.

1x washer pump (windscreen)
1x aircon compressor pulley… that’s it, but hey you know how unreliable VWs are

Service wise it’s had a service nearly every year on the year. And twice a year when I first got it and was doing 20k a year.

It’s had a cambelt, water pump and idler pulley. It’s had a set of discs and pads all round.

And probably 4-5 sets of tires.

Pretty good going I would say for 9 years of motoring, obviously now I have jinxed it

 

[FiatMatt94]

Completed the 2nd 500 mile round trip to Cheshire in the Seicento, got home & was greeted by a new Varta battery I ordered from battery megastore which I purchased with a discount code I found on some site ( I can't remember which site it was ) so got it for £44 plus delivery, when I took the old battery out I was really glad I was changing it as when I lifted it I was greeted with a battery tray with battery acid on it so was clearly leaking somewhere, I thought something wasn't right with it as I kept getting the odd thing with the power steering so I suspected the battery as we all know it's usually the main suspect, so after cleaning the battery tray & all the leaves & cobwebs that were surrounding the battery tray, installed the new battery & the clamp, started her up & let her run for about 15 - 20 mins, the tick over seems a little sweeter than before although it was good but it seems just a little better. Once that was all done I gave her a quick clean & called it a day

 

[Cheest]

Two very delayed orders for motorcycle and Jeep parts were cancelled and my money refunded without having to fight, much, for it. The motorcycle parts are out of stock with no timeline for when they'll be in stock. I've been dealing with these guys for several years, so it wasn't a big deal, got my money back and ran with plan 'B'.

The Jeep parts, man. I ordered these back in early July. I called the end of July and was told that the were short staffed but I would see the stuff by the end of the following week. Fine. Nothing for the entire month of August. I called again on Wednesday and went through the entire "Your call is very important to us" BS and ended up having to leave a voicemail. I left a callback number and a message stating that I expected a callback within 24 hours or I was opening a dispute with Paypal. Well, I was ghosted by the seller and opened the dispute with Paypal yesterday evening. I had a full refund by noon today.

Now I need to see if I can get a damn used EVAP pump somewhere else. New ones are $350 and I don't think I want to put new in a rusty 20 year old Jeep.

 

[StevenRB45]

Breaking news from the department of stating the flipping obvious to anyone with 5 braincells.

More Efficient EVs Would Be Cheaper, Less Stressful On Power Grid

A new white paper by the ACEEE insists that more efficient EVs with smaller batteries would be cheaper and better for the power grid.

insideevs.com

 

[The Panda Nut]

Breaking news from the department of stating the flipping obvious to anyone with 5 braincells.

More Efficient EVs Would Be Cheaper, Less Stressful On Power Grid

A new white paper by the ACEEE insists that more efficient EVs with smaller batteries would be cheaper and better for the power grid.

insideevs.com

I couldnt agree with you more.

The cost of recharging is somewhat irrelevant to the environmental argument. Car makers need forcing to declare in detail overall efficiency, and tax, both corporation and driver applied to push the efficiency up by influencing the users.
Electric may be better at the car end but suffers from oil to eletricity conversion losses. I want to understand the full comparrison between ev's and with ice cars To make my decision. Atm I feel I am being misled. I wont consider a whoppingly expensive ev until I am sure it has real environmental credibility includingimpact of the lithium in both carbon impact and environmental rape to collect the stuff. Theres no point changing if its equally bad overall. Im as yet still unclear.

 

[bugsymike]

I couldnt agree with you more.

The cost of recharging is somewhat irrelevant to the environmental argument. Car makers need forcing to declare in detail overall efficiency, and tax, both corporation and driver applied to push the efficiency up by influencing the users.
Electric may be better at the car end but suffers from oil to eletricity conversion losses. I want to understand the full comparrison between ev's and with ice cars To make my decision. Atm I feel I am being misled. I wont consider a whoppingly expensive ev until I am sure it has real environmental credibility includingimpact of the lithium in both carbon impact and environmental rape to collect the stuff. Theres no point changing if its equally bad overall. Im as yet still unclear.

My thoughts are, until it is an economic alternative it will only increase sales by Government forcing the public to buy something they don't want and cannot afford.
Until it is sold on it's own merits, it doesn't deserve to thrive.
So a small cheap EV would increase sales, however there is not enough profit element in that for the manufacturers.
Wind and solar has only increased on the backs of the public paying high environmental charges to subsidise them through their energy bills.