What's made you smile today?

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

In the past when the changeover to asbestos free brake pads the replacements seemed to be too hard but didn't stop in which case we got brake squeal or too soft and they worked really well but wore out quickly and gave lots of brake dust.
Personally I can put up with the brake dust if the car stops quickly

Aye, but with the old asbestos pads you'd get two or three changes of pad to one disc. Now it's not unusual for the discs to need changed with pads every time or at most two sets of pads to one disc and the disc will be really knackered after the second set.

Brake dust didn't really matter with steel wheels but looks a mess with alloys.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thinking about asbestos brake linings. We used to blow them out with an airline every service, clutch bell housings too. How come we're not all dead from the asbestos?

 

[The Panda Nut]

View attachment 450452Blasted bottles nearly empty. Must have evaporated in the hot weather.

 

[bugsymike]

Aye, but with the old asbestos pads you'd get two or three changes of pad to one disc. Now it's not unusual for the discs to need changed with pads every time or at most two sets of pads to one disc and the disc will be really knackered after the second set.

Brake dust didn't really matter with steel wheels but looks a mess with alloys.

Don't entirely agree, do you recall VW Beetles with the original hard asbestos riveted brake shoes wearing the brake drums rather than the shoes.
I did ask my Doctor about the asbestos dust as everytime I did it, the next day I would have a sore throat and eventually had my tonsils out which improved matters. He replied that as it was hard asbestos it wouldn't be a problem, not convinced

 

[bugsymike]

The Panda Nut said:

View attachment 450452Blasted bottles nearly empty. Must have evaporated in the hot weather.

You know the cure is to keep the lid on to reduce evaporation

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Don't entirely agree, do you recall VW Beetles with the original hard asbestos riveted brake shoes wearing the brake drums rather than the shoes.
I did ask my Doctor about the asbestos dust as everytime I did it, the next day I would have a sore throat and eventually had my tonsils out which improved matters. He replied that as it was hard asbestos it wouldn't be a problem, not convinced

My pilot brother in law kept a beetle at his house in Cyprus which we were allowed to borrow when on holiday. It was an excellent car for use in that hot country with it's air cooled engine. Didn't like the way the plastic seats burnt the back of your legs when you sat down (if you'd forgotten to leave a towel on them the night before.

Surprisingly, although I helped build a couple of beach buggies, I've never really worked on Beetles, so, no, I don't remember that particular problem. The lip on neglected brake drums was always a problem.

When I worked in the fast fit store, after tyres, brakes were a very big part of our business and probably a third of any day - on average - would be spent on brakes. Lots of drum brakes back in those days so lots of dust to blow out. Nothing was ever said about the asbestos content and I remember very well the metallic taste in the back of your throat and, when you blew your nose, what ended up on the hanky looked like black paint! Maybe your Doc is right about it being the "wrong" type of asbestos because I still keep in touch with others i knew back in those days and, although we're beginning to die off from old age, I'm not aware of anyone with health problems you might blame on the asbestos.

 

[rmjbn1]

@The Panda Nut what were you doing at 2:53 this morning?!
Watching whisky evaporate again?
I haven't even cracked mine yet (apologies Jock) ...

I wonder if it's also evaporated?
I'd better open it and check.
TPN if you run out, there might be a bit left here. Happily share it with you. Not sure I can match your late nights though

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

@The Panda Nut what were you doing at 2:53 this morning?!
Watching whisky evaporate again?
I haven't even cracked mine yet (apologies Jock) ...
View attachment 451469
I wonder if it's also evaporated?
I'd better open it and check.
TPN if you run out, there might be a bit left here. Happily share it with you. Not sure I can match your late nights though

That looks interesting, never seen it before but I'd like to taste it. Maybe I shouldn't be encouraging you "sasenachs" to buy whiskies not made in Scotland though?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Don't entirely agree, do you recall VW Beetles with the original hard asbestos riveted brake shoes wearing the brake drums rather than the shoes.
I did ask my Doctor about the asbestos dust as everytime I did it, the next day I would have a sore throat and eventually had my tonsils out which improved matters. He replied that as it was hard asbestos it wouldn't be a problem, not convinced

You've set me to thinking about Beetles now. I seem to remember having a hell of a job getting the rear brake drums off one of the few I've ever tackled? I seem to have vague memories of the drum being one piece with a sodding big nut holding it to the end of the half shaft. I think we borrowed a puller from somewhere to get it off? The memory is dim, so maybe I'm thinking of some other vehicle? I remember some of the Leyland stuff, Morris Marinas in particular, we did a lot of Marinas, which had a taper keyed flange on the half shaft which often required the Oxy-acetylene torch to persuade them to come off. If you just kept going with the puller it bent the flange and ruined it.

 

[The Panda Nut]

@The Panda Nut what were you doing at 2:53 this morning?!
Watching whisky evaporate again?
I haven't even cracked mine yet (apologies Jock) ...
View attachment 451469
I wonder if it's also evaporated?
I'd better open it and check.
TPN if you run out, there might be a bit left here. Happily share it with you. Not sure I can match your late nights though

watching the sun set over the lagest salt flats in the country. On the only beach where its possible in the country! Lol

 

[The Panda Nut]

Don't entirely agree, do you recall VW Beetles with the original hard asbestos riveted brake shoes wearing the brake drums rather than the shoes.
I did ask my Doctor about the asbestos dust as everytime I did it, the next day I would have a sore throat and eventually had my tonsils out which improved matters. He replied that as it was hard asbestos it wouldn't be a problem, not convinced

Your right. ALL ASBESTOS IS HARMFUL. The differences are not great enough in health terms. As you are still here you are probably OK. MDF IF YOU ATE CUTTING IT IS ALSO HARMFUL, THOUGH NOT AS SEVERE. Fibers of 'white asbestos sightly less needle like and less likely to lodge in lung tissue, but asbestos containd the different forms in some quantity whaterver its branded and must allbe considered bad. There are some long term health risks but it seems to manifest earlyish. I joined a company in London who were running Lambeth council asbesyos removal team. They rquiped tge staff with PPE that was ill conceived and indeed useless. 3 of the 4 men involved were already dead and the last man died before I met him. If you want a clean bill of health get a chest x ray. Probably best not to know as there is no cure.Smoking increases the risk of lung cancer on top of asbestos by 50 fold! The dust from brakes being visible means particles are above the most risky size. If you took care and there wasvlots of ventilation the risk should have been much reduced.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Your right. ALL ASBESTOS IS HARMFUL. The differences are not great enough in health terms. As you are still here you are probably OK. MDF IF YOU ATE CUTTING IT IS ALSO HARMFUL, THOUGH NOT AS SEVERE. Fibers of 'white asbestos sightly less needle like and less likely to lodge in lung tissue, but asbestos containd the different forms in some quantity whaterver its branded and must allbe considered bad. There are some long term health risks but it seems to manifest earlyish. I joined a company in London who were running Lambeth council asbesyos removal team. They rquiped tge staff with PPE that was ill conceived and indeed useless. 3 of the 4 men involved were already dead and the last man died before I met him. If you want a clean bill of health get a chest x ray. Probably best not to know as there is no cure.Smoking increases the risk of lung cancer on top of asbestos by 50 fold! The dust from brakes being visible means particles are above the most risky size. If you took care and there wasvlots of ventilation the risk should have been much reduced.

Well, there was always plenty of ventilation as the workshop bay doors were nearly always open! I smoked from later in my school life - it was the thing to do if you weren't a whimp - until my daughter was born by which time I was 30 years old, workshop manager and smoking best part of two packs a day due to the stress. Mrs J had "serious words" with me concerning my responsibilities now we had 2 children (3rd didn't appear for another 10 year. oops!) and I thought what she said was sensible so I chucked the half empty pack of Embassy and match book in a waste bin as I left the hospital where she'd just been born and haven't smoked since. Very difficult for the first few months but now I hate the smell of it and nothing would tempt me back. Won't be getting an x ray - better not to know at my age!

 

[SB1500]

Your right. ALL ASBESTOS IS HARMFUL. The differences are not great enough in health terms. As you are still here you are probably OK. MDF IF YOU ATE CUTTING IT IS ALSO HARMFUL, THOUGH NOT AS SEVERE. Fibers of 'white asbestos sightly less needle like and less likely to lodge in lung tissue, but asbestos containd the different forms in some quantity whaterver its branded and must allbe considered bad. There are some long term health risks but it seems to manifest earlyish. I joined a company in London who were running Lambeth council asbesyos removal team. They rquiped tge staff with PPE that was ill conceived and indeed useless. 3 of the 4 men involved were already dead and the last man died before I met him. If you want a clean bill of health get a chest x ray. Probably best not to know as there is no cure.Smoking increases the risk of lung cancer on top of asbestos by 50 fold! The dust from brakes being visible means particles are above the most risky size. If you took care and there wasvlots of ventilation the risk should have been much reduced.

Asbestos is a nightmare... I wonder what the next asbestos will be, some material we use extensively now, that we haven't quite figured out is killing us. Scary to think.

I thought on cars, asbestos brakes would be more of an issue for the motor trade who are interacting with it daily / constantly, and perhaps not such an issue for the odd brake job (assuming things wore down properly). But I could be wrong... is it that bad that even infrequent, small exposure can have serious consequences?

 

[Cheest]

Yesterday was the final day of the Labo(u)r Day three day weekend, which is also the unofficial end of summer on these shores. Beaches and swimming pools start to close in the northern areas. Businesses that had 'Summer Hours' go back to normal hours. Some businesses that catered to us outdoorsy types that were open 7 days a week are now closed on Sundays until June.

Why am I smiling? It's the best time of the year for bicycling and motorcycling. The weather is clear and cooler so you don't bake outside at car shows. The harvest will start to come in. The kids are back in school so there are smaller crowds during the week when we need to go shopping.

The real reason I'm smiling...I'm retired and I don't have to go to work.

 

[SB1500]

The kids are back in school so there are smaller crowds during the week when we need to go shopping.

Here in dull, gloomy Northern Ireland, my appreciation for this is much, much sadder...

I'll often walk down the quay from the office at lunch and within that time, justify grabbing something small from McDonald's. For the last couple of summer months, an under 5 minute wait has turned into over 20! The place was packed to the brim with kids off school, families out on break etc!

Today I spotted the school busses / parents cars all over the street(s) on the way to work. Reminded me... today, McDonald's won't be packed!

I'm a saddo ;-) but a saddo with another 10+ minutes of freedom on my lunch break. But you don't need to worry about lunch hours if you're retired @Cheest - or the crappy UK weather we have (even during the summer months, at car shows)

 

[PuntoHowTo]

@Pugglt Auld Jock and @bugsymike

you can read the abstract of this study here https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0273230001914916
This looked at a number of other studies but basically the evidence tends to suggest that weirdly auto mechanics do not have any greater risk from the asbestos in brakes and transmissions than any other member of the public.

Not sure why, Not been able to find any studies on why that might be the case, a theory I have is maybe the fibers in these things are contained when in the brake pad or clutch, when detached from the pad or clutch they are heated up and subjected to a lot of friction which maybe breaks down the fibers into something which then doesn't post so much risk to the lungs

I am sure it is those who used or worked with asbestos in buildings that were most at risk especially those breaking up asbestos boards or spraying it on to structures for fire protection. I seem to remember that "brown asbestos" was the worst which was used mainly in construction.

It was a big deal in the 80s when I was very young, we were taught about it in schools and someone usually had an elderly relative on oxygen because of it. There was the picture that did the rounds of a guy on a forklift moving stacks of asbestos boards around with plumes of dust coming off it, while he had no protection on whatsoever. its not hard to see how those people go so ill from it.

 

[portland_bill]

Yesterday was the final day of the Labo(u)r Day three day weekend,

I noticed on our calendar yesterday that it was labor day, and therefore a holiday. I'd never thought about it before, but it seems a little ironic that labor day is celebrated, not by a day of extra hard work, but a holiday.

you can read the abstract of this study here https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/abs/pii/S0273230001914916
This looked at a number of other studies but basically the evidence tends to suggest that weirdly auto mechanics do not have any greater risk from the asbestos in brakes and transmissions than any other member of the public.

I always understood that it was the asbestos fibres that lodged in the lungs. Brake dust is minute particles, 'dust', not loose fibres, so perhaps that is why mechanics are not at high risk. Broken linings used to reveal their fibre construction, so they might have been more of a risk.
At least from this we are now advised to wash brakes out, with brake clean, or just water. I doubt the dust from 'asbestos-free' friction material is harmless, we just need another 50 years to understand the damage from that.

 

[bugsymike]

You've set me to thinking about Beetles now. I seem to remember having a hell of a job getting the rear brake drums off one of the few I've ever tackled? I seem to have vague memories of the drum being one piece with a sodding big nut holding it to the end of the half shaft. I think we borrowed a puller from somewhere to get it off? The memory is dim, so maybe I'm thinking of some other vehicle? I remember some of the Leyland stuff, Morris Marinas in particular, we did a lot of Marinas, which had a taper keyed flange on the half shaft which often required the Oxy-acetylene torch to persuade them to come off. If you just kept going with the puller it bent the flange and ruined it.

From memory it was a large nut and a coarse spline drive in the brake drum/hub , but I think there may have been a puller, my first boss had a 1200 model that we a saw a lot of, apart from customers versions.
Strangely enough another older mechanic introduced me to changing gear without pressing the clutch on bosses VW, it came in handy when customers had cable or hydraulic issues and we could drive the cars back to garage. Basically with a warm engine , put in gear with handbrake off, turn key and drive away, changing gear was a case of getting the revs correct and gentle pressure on gear lever would aid a quiet gear selection both up and down the box, when you came to a junction again a touch on the accelerator and ease gear lever back into neutral, then start off as before.
None of this involved any crashing or grinding of gears, just a bit of practice.

 

[bugsymike]

Yesterday was the final day of the Labo(u)r Day three day weekend, which is also the unofficial end of summer on these shores. Beaches and swimming pools start to close in the northern areas. Businesses that had 'Summer Hours' go back to normal hours. Some businesses that catered to us outdoorsy types that were open 7 days a week are now closed on Sundays until June.

Why am I smiling? It's the best time of the year for bicycling and motorcycling. The weather is clear and cooler so you don't bake outside at car shows. The harvest will start to come in. The kids are back in school so there are smaller crowds during the week when we need to go shopping.

The real reason I'm smiling...I'm retired and I don't have to go to work.

Son giving extra stress today , but I am smiling as I left it all behind and went to my mates where we fixed three old Jap Magnetos and got good fat blue sparks from them as he wanted backup for the old saw bench he keeps in France, then we did a bit more on the Schwinn bike that we fitted the 1950s cyclemotor rear wheel to, this one does slightly work the back brake , though the front hub type is rubbish even though it came from a tandem, so I gave that a little road test around the yard.

 

[bugsymike]

I noticed on our calendar yesterday that it was labor day, and therefore a holiday. I'd never thought about it before, but it seems a little ironic that labor day is celebrated, not by a day of extra hard work, but a holiday.

I always understood that it was the asbestos fibres that lodged in the lungs. Brake dust is minute particles, 'dust', not loose fibres, so perhaps that is why mechanics are not at high risk. Broken linings used to reveal their fibre construction, so they might have been more of a risk.
At least from this we are now advised to wash brakes out, with brake clean, or just water. I doubt the dust from 'asbestos-free' friction material is harmless, we just need another 50 years to understand the damage from that.

Dust from sanding hard woods are bad also I understand.