What's made you smile today?

[chr1s]

So I must have a sly look at his tyres next time I get another chance to see what his speed rating actually is. Although he won't have much option as it's illegal to run a tyre of a lower speed rating to that fitted as original equipment, I think I remember him mentioning in passing that they are run flats.

By coincidence my boss took delivery of a new Arteon R Shooting Brake this week. For the 13 years I have known him he has had a succession of at least four Skoda Octavia Estate vRS through a company car scheme, but now he has left that scheme.
In answer to your tyre query, his is fitted with 245/40R19 94W Pirellis.
Like Jock and Bill, I can't say it has me wanting to trade in my cars. I can think of preferable ways to spend £50k+
My boss is German and makes regular trips to visit family in Bavaria, so at least he'll occasionally get to (legally) drive at speed.

 

[AndyRKett]

I can think of preferable ways to spend £50k+

The scary thing is £50k is not all that much for cars these days, 6 years ago my golf was a £32k car, now the fiat 500e is a £30k+ car
the ID3 which has an electric car premium is still around £40k+

And for the Arteon shootingbrake the £50k price tag suggests it’s the R model with all of the 300+ ponies under the bonnet. You’ll not find performance cars like that for much less these days.

 

[pooroldcodger]

I suppose it is the monthly lease cost and the ease of access to monthly schemes rather than the actual ticket price that make these higher prices viable.
I rememeber the days (as will a number of the usual suspects on these pages!) when you had to either get a new car on "HP" (hire purchase, not horse power) from the dealership or go to see your bank manager armed with the details of the car you wanted to buy, how much you needed to borrow etc, and then sit like a naughty boy in the head teacher's study whilst the manager gave you a lecture and decided whether you were worth the risk or not.

 

[AndyRKett]

I suppose it is the monthly lease cost and the ease of access to monthly schemes rather than the actual ticket price that make these higher prices viable.
I rememeber the days (as will a number of the usual suspects on these pages!) when you had to either get a new car on "HP" (hire purchase, not horse power) from the dealership or go to see your bank manager armed with the details of the car you wanted to buy, how much you needed to borrow etc, and then sit like a naughty boy in the head teacher's study whilst the manager gave you a lecture and decided whether you were worth the risk or not.

Lease and PCP deals make cars much cheaper than straight forward HP or Loans, basically they trap you that with a lease you have to give the car back at the end of the deal and never owned it anyway, same with PCP you’re left with a ballon payment of usually a lot more than most people have in their back pocket and you either pay the car off or give it back. The monthly amount you pay amounts to a rental charge based on what the car costs new and what it will be worth in 3 - 4 years time. You pay £7k for your old car which you’ll nead a loan for, or we give you a new car and you carry on paying £400 a month for the rest of your life and the car you give back is worth more like £12k so the dealers make a tidy profit and increase their sales figures.

with car prices going up in the last 2 years this means those end of PCP deal cars are worth more like £15k so the dealerships are laughing however there is also the risk currently of people choosing to keep the car because they wouldn’t get a loan for a new car cheaper than the loan for the old one as in the past, and also they may be waiting to shift to electric or just waiting to see what happens, so now there is a shortage of used cars and prices go up more

 

[StevenRB45]

One car experiment continues..

Previously I filled the Mazda up twice a month on average...averaging 50 quid a time (at pre-ridiculous fuel price levels). Also as my wife is generally skint at any given moment more than 3 seconds after pay day I'd usually end up putting 20 quid at least in hers at some point.

The C3 seems to have responded well to both regular use and Vpower..



Up to 48 mpg from low to mid 40s...if not high 30s when it was just a commuter kick about. Also the cost with both of us is barely anymore than it used to cost me to run just the Mazda and that cost is on Super as well.

Also enjoying the fuel range, the Mazda was a little **** as far as fuel gauge went. 12 gallon tank, everything read empty with less than 10 gallons used which got you about 330-380 miles.

It's done 275 miles on this tank so far



Mathematically that range read out actually bloody works..275 + 211 = 486...current economy 48.7 10 gallon tank. On the motorway it'd be well over 500 miles at a cruise.

To be honest not a car I'd necessarily pick as the only car for a family but it's doing pretty well, I suspected by 1 month in I'd be frog marching my wife down to the dealer to trade it in but no.

Just as well really suspect I'd have a fight in my hands...

 

[pooroldcodger]

Lease and PCP deals make cars much cheaper than straight forward HP or Loans, basically they trap you that with a lease you have to give the car back at the end of the deal and never owned it anyway, same with PCP you’re left with a ballon payment of usually a lot more than most people have in their back pocket and you either pay the car off or give it back. The monthly amount you pay amounts to a rental charge based on what the car costs new and what it will be worth in 3 - 4 years time. You pay £7k for your old car which you’ll nead a loan for, or we give you a new car and you carry on paying £400 a month for the rest of your life and the car you give back is worth more like £12k so the dealers make a tidy profit and increase their sales figures.

with car prices going up in the last 2 years this means those end of PCP deal cars are worth more like £15k so the dealerships are laughing however there is also the risk currently of people choosing to keep the car because they wouldn’t get a loan for a new car cheaper than the loan for the old one as in the past, and also they may be waiting to shift to electric or just waiting to see what happens, so now there is a shortage of used cars and prices go up more

All very true. In addition to the above the new car market is being hit by the shocking announcements tumbling from Whitehall about banning new petrol, diesels and even hybrids, leaving potential new buyers to prefer to wait and see what really happens in the next year or so.

 

[StevenRB45]

All very true. In addition to the above the new car market is being hit by the shocking announcements tumbling from Whitehall about banning new petrol, diesels and even hybrids, leaving potential new buyers to prefer to wait and see what really happens in the next year or so.

At the moment I think the only people who are getting new cars have had an old one expire and been forced into the market or are on the leasing/pcp treadmill or possibly just change of circumstances.

If you're someone who likes to buy and keep that doesn't have the budget to go electric right now then putting a chunk of cash into a new car that will likely have the current inflated price deflated by an announcement that you can't drive it into a populated area without paying the equivalent of a month's road fund is not ideal.

But then even if you have and decide you will buy a new electric car today, you can guarantee anything less than 40k will be absolutely obsolete in say 6 or 7 years such is current rate of acceleration in the market. Be it small range...or low charging capability or that it doesn't have the next big battery chemistry. In that area the rate of improvement is incredible.

 

[puntofan01]

I live right near a Vauxhall dealer, and I often find meself wondering why they don't just put the finance deal on the windscreens of the used cars, instead of a conventional price, given how insanely expensive they are. [emoji52]

 

[AndyRKett]

At the moment I think the only people who are getting new cars have had an old one expire and been forced into the market or are on the leasing/pcp treadmill or possibly just change of circumstances.

If you're someone who likes to buy and keep that doesn't have the budget to go electric right now then putting a chunk of cash into a new car that will likely have the current inflated price deflated by an announcement that you can't drive it into a populated area without paying the equivalent of a month's road fund is not ideal.

But then even if you have and decide you will buy a new electric car today, you can guarantee anything less than 40k will be absolutely obsolete in say 6 or 7 years such is current rate of acceleration in the market. Be it small range...or low charging capability or that it doesn't have the next big battery chemistry. In that area the rate of improvement is incredible.

I fit somewhere in the middle of the PCP/buy and keep and I seem to think you do to.

Those of us who bough on a PCP then paid it off and kept the car. Now we sit in the middle ground of running our cars and watching what’s going to happen to the market.

I suspect my next car will be electric but also need to move first. Where I currently am has nowhere I could put a charger and be able to say I’d be able to reliably park in that spot and access that charger. I keep my car in a garage/car port but it’s a good ?100 feet from the house with no electric.

I work 30+ miles from home so need access to charging over night but would also like to combine an electric car with solar and battery storage in the house.

So I wait, I will wait to move, wait to move to electric and wait to see what happens with car prices, because at the moment something like an ID3 or ID4 or Tesla model 3 are all in that £40-50k price bracket for what is essentially a golf or focus sized car which only a few couple of years ago would have been half that.

Definitely interesting times, being now right in the middle of a huge shift in the way our whole society lives and travels

 

[StevenRB45]

I fit somewhere in the middle of the PCP/buy and keep and I seem to think you do to.

Those of us who bough on a PCP then paid it off and kept the car. Now we sit in the middle ground of running our cars and watching what’s going to happen to the market.

I suspect my next car will be electric but also need to move first. Where I currently am has nowhere I could put a charger and be able to say I’d be able to reliably park in that spot and access that charger. I keep my car in a garage/car port but it’s a good ?100 feet from the house with no electric.

I work 30+ miles from home so need access to charging over night but would also like to combine an electric car with solar and battery storage in the house.

So I wait, I will wait to move, wait to move to electric and wait to see what happens with car prices, because at the moment something like an ID3 or ID4 or Tesla model 3 are all in that £40-50k price bracket for what is essentially a golf or focus sized car which only a few couple of years ago would have been half that.

Definitely interesting times, being now right in the middle of a huge shift in the way our whole society lives and travels

As we've discussed in the past, there's different ways of doing PCP depending on if you plan to buy at the end. At the current prices though rather than the buy and pay off at the end I'd be leasing as while I could get a loan to cover the balance at the end. I'm pretty sure I'd have difficulty saving up a GFV of about 25k+ while paying a monthly of 400-500 odd. Followed by a similar loan payment for another 5 or 6 years. By the time its paid off it's as advanced as a mk1 Nissan leaf is now.

Also have similar issues re. charging. I could pull a wall down to create off street parking but I lose outside space. To be fair if the thing could manage 200 miles in all weathers one trip to a fast charger a fortnight would be an option.

All to replace a car that cost 14k...

Rather hoping everyone stops building Tesla chasers and actually start building cars that are smaller, lighter and more efficient. Ora Cat looks promising and price is reasonable for 260 mile range but a 220l boot is a joke for a car the size of a Focus.

 

[AndyRKett]

I live right near a Vauxhall dealer, and I often find meself wondering why they don't just put the finance deal on the windscreens of the used cars, instead of a conventional price, given how insanely expensive they are. [emoji52]

Because finance is always subject to status, one person may never pay anything like what someone else will, then it changes again depending on trade in or how much you put down. So the price on the screen gives you something to compare against. They however almost always put a typical finance deal example on the cars information sheet usually stuck to the inside of the drivers side window.

I guess despite living near the Vauxhall garage you’ve never actually been and looked.

 

[AndyRKett]

As we've discussed in the past, there's different ways of doing PCP depending on if you plan to buy at the end. At the current prices though rather than the buy and pay off at the end I'd be leasing as while I could get a loan to cover the balance at the end. I'm pretty sure I'd have difficulty saving up a GFV of about 25k+ while paying a monthly of 400-500 odd. Followed by a similar loan payment for another 5 or 6 years. By the time its paid off it's as advanced as a mk1 Nissan leaf is now.

This is the big joke, GFV in excess of the new value of the car you’re replacing. In PCP terms it basically makes it a rental, it might as well be a lease. And I agree with some of the lease deals about which cover all your maintenance and tyres why would you opt to pay those bills yourself on top of every monthly payment.

I think there is still a lot of room for electric car prices to come down, and as you point out with the tech moving rapidly you’re at risk of your £50k electric car looking like a 5 year old iPhone by the end of any credit deal.

 

[chr1s]

I fit somewhere in the middle of the PCP/buy and keep and I seem to think you do to.

Those of us who bough on a PCP then paid it off and kept the car. Now we sit in the middle ground of running our cars and watching what’s going to happen to the market.

I suspect my next car will be electric but also need to move first. Where I currently am has nowhere I could put a charger and be able to say I’d be able to reliably park in that spot and access that charger. I keep my car in a garage/car port but it’s a good ?100 feet from the house with no electric.

I work 30+ miles from home so need access to charging over night but would also like to combine an electric car with solar and battery storage in the house.

So I wait, I will wait to move, wait to move to electric and wait to see what happens with car prices, because at the moment something like an ID3 or ID4 or Tesla model 3 are all in that £40-50k price bracket for what is essentially a golf or focus sized car which only a few couple of years ago would have been half that.

Definitely interesting times, being now right in the middle of a huge shift in the way our whole society lives and travels

I mostly resemble that. When I bought in 2017, I had a quote for PCP but instead of applying their low new car interest rate BMW chose to class my pre-reg car (with all of 35 miles on the clock) as a used car attracting 11% interest rate (from memory) so a personal loan was far cheaper given that I always intended to end up owning the car.

In the process of moving to a house with off-road parking and the potential for a charging point. So next car will probably be electric, but not for many years yet.

 

[puntofan01]

Because finance is always subject to status, one person may never pay anything like what someone else will, then it changes again depending on trade in or how much you put down. So the price on the screen gives you something to compare against. They however almost always put a typical finance deal example on the cars information sheet usually stuck to the inside of the drivers side window.

I guess despite living near the Vauxhall garage you’ve never actually been and looked.

I see!

And nope. I'm not in the market for a newer car, and even if I was, I'd be looking to buy a used car outright, rather than getting something from a dealership chain on finance.

 

[AndyRKett]

I see!

And nope. I'm not in the market for a newer car, and even if I was, I'd be looking to buy a used car outright, rather than getting something from a dealership chain on finance.

Then why even comment on it, if it’s of absolutely no interest to you and you don’t understand what you’re commenting on? (This is a rhetorical question)

For the rest of the world who move on and things change in their lives, wife, children, change of job, or maybe just wanting to reward yourself for hard work or a bonus, we don’t all live in our own made time capsule hiding from change and might actually occasionally need or want to seek out buying a new car.

 

[puntofan01]

Then why even comment on it, if it’s of absolutely no interest to you and you don’t understand what you’re commenting on? (This is a rhetorical question)

For the rest of the world who move on and things change in their lives, wife, children, change of job, or maybe just wanting to reward yourself for hard work or a bonus, we don’t all live in our own made time capsule hiding from change and might actually occasionally need or want to seek out buying a new car.

Here's a rhetorical question for you: where is the need to be completely rude, when my original comment wasn't even aimed at you, let alone intended as an insult to anyone.

Whilst I might not know much about car finance, the windscreen prices look incredibly high, and if I were looking for a car, I'd shop around for a better deal elsewhere...

 

[StevenRB45]

This is the big joke, GFV in excess of the new value of the car you’re replacing. In PCP terms it basically makes it a rental, it might as well be a lease. And I agree with some of the lease deals about which cover all your maintenance and tyres why would you opt to pay those bills yourself on top of every monthly payment.

If you add together the new price of the Mazda and Citroën...which it theoretically would be replacing you get 30k. But yeah if things stay at this level may as well rent it cos the monthlies will be endless anyway.

I see!

And nope. I'm not in the market for a newer car, and even if I was, I'd be looking to buy a used car outright, rather than getting something from a dealership chain on finance.

Your Vauxhall dealer doesn't sound very aggressive to be honest.

Back when I used to work in the office they would park a selection of cars directly opposite. These cars had 3 foot high letters on the doors and bonnet with a representative monthly on it. Somewhat cheekily they'd have the ts and cs on the rear which usually included two things. One was that the price given was "representative" and two that the price quoted was for a bog basic one and the car it was stuck too wasn't.

Knew exactly what they were doing...600 people looking out the window all with a regular salary.

 

[puntofan01]

If you add together the new price of the Mazda and Citroën...which it theoretically would be replacing you get 30k. But yeah if things stay at this level may as well rent it cos the monthlies will be endless anyway.



Your Vauxhall dealer doesn't sound very aggressive to be honest.

Back when I used to work in the office they would park a selection of cars directly opposite. These cars had 3 foot high letters on the doors and bonnet with a representative monthly on it. Somewhat cheekily they'd have the ts and cs on the rear which usually included two things. One was that the price given was "representative" and two that the price quoted was for a bog basic one and the car it was stuck too wasn't.

Knew exactly what they were doing...600 people looking out the window all with a regular salary.

I don't think that dealer is being aggressive or sneaky, the used cars just strike me as being expensive, even by today's standards. For example, they had a 15 plate Hyundai i10 for £7495, whereas I imagine it would've only been around £2k more to buy when it was fresh from the Hyundai showroom. I'm assuming it was very low mileage, but I suspect that if you were willing to be patient and/or shop around, you could get a better deal elsewhere.

 

[StevenRB45]

I don't think that dealer is being aggressive or sneaky, the used cars just strike me as being expensive, even by today's standards. For example, they had a 15 plate Hyundai i10 for £7495, whereas I imagine it would've only been around £2k more to buy when it was fresh from the Hyundai showroom. I'm assuming it was very low mileage, but I suspect that if you were willing to be patient and/or shop around, you could get a better deal elsewhere.

Car market is literally insane currently.

This is the same spec as our current car, same age more miles for sale near me.

https://www.autotrader.co.uk/car-de...-location=at_cars&aggregatedTrim=Flair&page=1

That price is 130 quid less than we paid for ours new at 4 years old (list was 16 odd we got a discount).

 

[AndyRKett]

Here's a rhetorical question for you: where is the need to be completely rude, when my original comment wasn't even aimed at you, let alone intended as an insult to anyone.

If this is a rhetorical question then you’re implying that the answer is obvious….

Whilst I might not know much about car finance, the windscreen prices look incredibly high, and if I were looking for a car, I'd shop around for a better deal elsewhere...

Super but you jumped in on a conversation you by your own admission know nothing about and have no interest in, the windscreen price on a car at a garage doesn’t seem a good deal to you, but you have no interest in buying a car anyway so what does it matter? And who pays screen price ? I’d tell you to go look at the market, But you’re not interested so what’s the point?

A Punto I’ve had for 3 years was written off by the insurance company and they basically paid out what I paid for the car 3 years ago. Prices have rocketed!

Driving past a car on a forecourt tells you nothing about the spec either, options engine choice. It’s a very naive way of going about.