What's made you not grumpy but not smile either today?

[StevenRB45]

The idea of powering your one car and house is lovely..

But 40k for the electric car, 10k for the solar array, 500 quid minimum for the car charger, cost of the heat pump. Cost of something like a Tesla power wall..

Seems a bloody expensive way to save money.

Of course the end goal is saving the world which obviously I am pro

 

[The Panda Nut]

The Research was funded by something called the Crux alliance which seems to be an outwardly pro-environmental organization with goal of cutting carbon emisions. Which I would say gives them a pretty high likelihood of having a vested interest in being pro - heat pump.

There is also an addendum to the original paper basically stating that there is a wide range of performance characteristics and you need to choose wisely to get a system that matches the climate in which it is to be uses.

Finally there is the issue of running cost because while the actual outcome is 2 times on average more efficient than the equivalent gas or resistive heating system. especially where gas or oil is concerned the costs of the electricity are significantly more per unit of energy.

That said I am with @Eklipze3k on this one. It would be fantastic to have your own solar array and battery to power your heating system or electric car basically for free. But yeah that's going to be a pretty expensive set up. Currently you can get a gas boiler for about £2K-3K where as a heat pump system is more like £10k - 15k

I considered a car charger with the solar system. You would need a hell of a lot of panels to make it work. We monitor power to the grid and there is insufficient to make it viable. If we had a car it would help but not hugely as the house uses most of the power. Good news on the feneration side is we now get 15p/kW hrfrom BG as a consumer/ supplier this will only produce around £100 a year return. It shoul balance our jan and feb bills though. There is some threshold of 4Kw generation capacity beyond which supply to grid income can be less as I understand it. Im not sure exactly but we were advised to stick at 4kW.

 

[Eklipze3k]

The idea of powering your one car and house is lovely..

But 40k for the electric car, 10k for the solar array, 500 quid minimum for the car charger, cost of the heat pump. Cost of something like a Tesla power wall..

Seems a bloody expensive way to save money.

Of course the end goal is saving the world which obviously I am pro

In theory though, these are all one-time costs, and that let's call it 60k should cover you, what, a conservative 10 years? So £6k a year, or £500 a month. I'm paying £145 a month for my gas/electric, so let's knock that off of the £500, leaving us £355, monthly repayments on a £40k car are going to be a hell of a lot more than that to get it fully paid off, not to mention we're probably talking about an ICE car here, either that or our energy bills will go up. So yeah, a lot to spend all at once but pays for itself over time. As for how heat pumps cool, you'd have to watch the video I linked, he explains it better than I ever could hope to!

EDIT: I just rewatched some of the video - a heat pump is, literally, an A/C unit reversed. So, and a good unit can do both at the flick of a switch.

 

[vexorg]

Most electric cars use heat pumps for heating and cooling. Near instant heat when cold, just swap condenser and evaporator

 

[PuntoHowTo]

But 40k for the electric car, 10k for the solar array, 500 quid minimum for the car charger, cost of the heat pump. Cost of something like a Tesla power wall..

If you're buying a new car these days it's reasonable that you might be paying that sort of money for a car anyway. bearing in mind the book price for my golf and my wifes Mini were both £32k cars in 2015 and 2017. so if we were to now update its reasonable that a current similar replacement would be in that price area. So i'd not count the cost of the car, you'd buy a car petrol or electric anyway.

A sizable 12Kw solar array would be adequate to power the house and have left over for charging a battery. The battery becomes your charger for the car, and to run the house over night.

A friend of ours has just done exactly this. bought a new house and had a solar array and battery storage installed with an electric car they already had.

 

[The Panda Nut]

The idea of powering your one car and house is lovely..

But 40k for the electric car, 10k for the solar array, 500 quid minimum for the car charger, cost of the heat pump. Cost of something like a Tesla power wall..

Seems a bloody expensive way to save money.

Of course the end goal is saving the world which obviously I am pro

Car chargers were £1000. Could have had it VAT free if done at same time as solar. Main reason for not fitting one is I suspect it would be obsolete before I have an EV.

 

[portland_bill]

Bin day today.
Around 10:30, a car arrived opposite, and the lad walked to his Mum's house and brought the bins out to the road.
Unfortunately, the bin trucks were all been and gone by 8:30.
I guess his parents are on hols. As the bins are emptied fortnightly, I guess they'll be coming home to unemptied ones.
Oops!

 

[The Panda Nut]

Thatll be another spurious missed bin report then..... They might get away with it but I doubt it.

 

[The Panda Nut]

The idea of powering your one car and house is lovely..

But 40k for the electric car, 10k for the solar array, 500 quid minimum for the car charger, cost of the heat pump. Cost of something like a Tesla power wall..

Seems a bloody expensive way to save money.

Of course the end goal is saving the world which obviously I am pro

But if you need 3 electric cars thats 120K and even with solar at 25K and if you can charge 3 cars off 1 domestic electricity supply. and if you have an income of c£500K a year which you would need to fund it....... This at the moment is total KINBOLL*** Wehn my Panda packs up there will be NO ALTERNATIVE for us than to buy a pony and trap. I think electric scooters will be a bit beyond us in our late 70's!

However solar system is worth having and would be worth having - £90 a month is a good return on 10K.

 

[portland_bill]

But if you need 3 electric cars thats 120K and even with solar at 25K and if you can charge 3 cars off 1 domestic electricity supply. and if you have an income of c£500K a year which you would need to fund it....... This at the moment is total KINBOLL*** Wehn my Panda packs up there will be NO ALTERNATIVE for us than to buy a pony and trap. I think electric scooters will be a bit beyond us in our late 70's!

However solar system is worth having and would be worth having - £90 a month is a good return on 10K.

We'll be all plugging in our invalid scooters. Add a wire to the seat, to give us a welcome jolt and keep us alive.
If families have multiple electric cars, it should be possible to charge them all, on different days. The problem comes when they all need charging together. Infrequent, not an issue with ICE, but potentially a big issue with electric.
But no need to worry about that, there's not enough lithium for half the current car population, and that's without using any for phones, hearing aids, doorbells, etc.

Just a frightening thought. Do pacemakers use lithium batteries? Hopefully older, safer technology. Really don't need that battery suddenly combusting.

 

[bugsymike]

I think I am with the majority of you, in so much as it would be great to have, solar, heat pumps, EV cars etc.
However unless you are doing it for purely altruistic reasons, it is very hard to see a cost benefit before it wants replacing again, so initial investment very hard to justify.
Also unless your house is new and been specifically designed for total air control it would be hard to get the full benefit.
My other concern is that the more a house is sealed, the higher increase in asthma etc. Once houses did away with the old drafty sash windows and poorly fitting doors etc. replaced by double or triple glazing in some cases, electric heating, doing away with chimneys etc. breathing problems escalated.
The other thing is after someone has spent approaching £20 K on a system they are hardly likely to admit they wasted their money.
Another small point is most of the products come from a Country not renowned for high quality long lasting products, so try buying parts to repair your 10/15 year old £20K system.
By the way @portland_bill , "Just a frightening thought. Do pacemakers use lithium batteries?" just remember the wind up radios, the NHS will just fit a big key on your chest.

 

[vexorg]

Just a frightening thought. Do pacemakers use lithium batteries? Hopefully older, safer technology. Really don't need that battery suddenly combusting.

I think we'd have heard about it if they did.
My father-in-law has had one since young, get changed every 10 years or so due to needing new batteries, so I'd guess they must be lithium at that renewal time.

 

[porta]

I think we'd have heard about it if they did.
My father-in-law has had one since young, get changed every 10 years or so due to needing new batteries, so I'd guess they must be lithium at that renewal time.

I think that, unless they’re swallowed, that the small output V/Aph are pretty safe, it’s wehn they get to higher outputs they become a problem. Have seen even cordless 18v tool batteries self-combust

 

[Cheest]

Finally got some movement happening for getting parts for my Ural. Made a list for the Mothership, Irbit Motor Works America, in Washington state through my go to parts guy in Michigan. Dealing with four time zones here. Hopefully I'll have some pricing tomorrow.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Just a frightening thought. Do pacemakers use lithium batteries? Hopefully older, safer technology. Really don't need that battery suddenly combusting.

Lithium-iodine batteries are used in pacemakers, as they don’t self discharge so last ages without being or needing to be recharged.

I don’t think lithium iodine reacts quite so violently when exposed to air.

But no need to worry about that, there's not enough lithium for half the current car population, and that's without using any for phones, hearing aids, doorbells, etc.

Even less with companies keep putting lithium batteries in disposable products like a lot of single use vapes now are sold with cheap Li-ion batteries in them, then just thrown away when used

 

[portland_bill]

8:30 last night, cat comes in carrying a very tiny mouse. A frequent occurrence, but always unwelcome. Being a female cat, the prey is always alive. For such occasions we have a few safe traps around the room, and a couple of postal tubes, which work well for catching them, and they often dive in as a safe escape, allowing their safe release.
Launching myself from a slow recliner chair, I grabbed the nearest tube, whereupon cat exited to the kitchen, with prey. But, instead of taking it outside again, she dropped it. Frightened creature ran for safety, behind the washing machine.
Nothing to do now except place one of the humane traps at the entrance gap, and wait. Hopefully it will find its way into the box, or else it would be a wait until it smells, then drag the machine out and search for the corpse. (Been there, done that, many times.)
Yay! This morning, tiny mouse inside the trap. Took it outside, removed the end cap, but the little creature was reluctant to come out. After a few minutes it ventured out, and ran away across the grass.

It is now prime season for the little critters, as teh damp evenings bring them out.

 

[The Panda Nut]

8:30 last night, cat comes in carrying a very tiny mouse. A frequent occurrence, but always unwelcome. Being a female cat, the prey is always alive. For such occasions we have a few safe traps around the room, and a couple of postal tubes, which work well for catching them, and they often dive in as a safe escape, allowing their safe release.
Launching myself from a slow recliner chair, I grabbed the nearest tube, whereupon cat exited to the kitchen, with prey. But, instead of taking it outside again, she dropped it. Frightened creature ran for safety, behind the washing machine.
Nothing to do now except place one of the humane traps at the entrance gap, and wait. Hopefully it will find its way into the box, or else it would be a wait until it smells, then drag the machine out and search for the corpse. (Been there, done that, many times.)
Yay! This morning, tiny mouse inside the trap. Took it outside, removed the end cap, but the little creature was reluctant to come out. After a few minutes it ventured out, and ran away across the grass.

It is now prime season for the little critters, as teh damp evenings bring them out.

My daughter has mice in the house. I supplied the norfolk breed of trap and one humane trap. In the morning she found supermouse had eatena door hinge, and the bait, and left. Back to the less friendly traps for us then, but not before it to vengence by eating several holes in he fairly new setee.

 

[bugsymike]

My daughter has mice in the house. I supplied the norfolk breed of trap and one humane trap. In the morning she found supermouse had eatena door hinge, and the bait, and left. Back to the less friendly traps for us then, but not before it to vengence by eating several holes in he fairly new setee.

Don't feed the cat and it will not bring in it's toys

 

[porta]

My daughter has mice in the house. I supplied the norfolk breed of trap and one humane trap. In the morning she found supermouse had eatena door hinge, and the bait, and left. Back to the less friendly traps for us then, but not before it to vengence by eating several holes in he fairly new setee.

Put bicarbonate of soda on your bait food, rodents can’t fart so they explode
I’m honestly not advocating that, I saw it on a YouTube video where the redneck was discussing how rodents soon learn how to defeat traps

 

[porta]

Don't feed the cat and it will not bring in it's toys

They never bloody do…here on the farm they kill birds and voles, and the odd bunny
Never a rat or a mouse, luckily we have two stoat families, one at the top and one at the bottom…they get the rats, and the tawny and barn owls take a fair share!