What's made you grumpy today?

[PuntoHowTo]

And the stats claim more accidents are cause by mobile phone use than drink driving, which I can believe too.

I’d totally buy that too. There is definitely a stigma attached to drink driving which doesn’t exist with phones. Many many more people drive using their phones who wouldn’t dream of drunk driving

@portland_bill made the very valid point above that drink drivers tend to try to compensate by trying to focus harder on the driving. But with a phone in your hand you can’t increase your focus on the road, your attention is totally away from the driving

 

[StevenRB45]

my understanding of the current law is it is illegal to use or even hold a mobile phone while driving that is not in a holder, the only exception being to make an emergency call to 999

So the people who sit with there phone in their lap, the people who take photos of accidents they’re passing, the “I was just checking…..” and the ones that hold the phone to their ear are all treated the same under law.

The only acceptable use under the law being completely hands free or with the phone fixed in a holder

I'm more thinking of from a research point of view.

The law is one thing, what they've done while data gathering may be another.

I can entirely believe someone looking down into the car or at their phone for a long period will have worse reaction times than a drink driver.

The one that gives me issue is basically stating you can't drive and talk which seems a bit weird given the number of things you must do that require concentration while talking in daily life seems very odd.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I'm more thinking of from a research point of view.

The law is one thing, what they've done while data gathering may be another.

I can entirely believe someone looking down into the car or at their phone for a long period will have worse reaction times than a drink driver.

oh I agree with that, I think the research PB was quoting above was only for talking on the the phone (hands free) while driving versus having enough alcohol in your system to be “on” the drink drive limit so 35mcgof alcohol per 100ml of breath 80mcg per 100ml blood I forget the exact figures but it’s around about those. Without knowing how a test is conducted or the sample size i don’t feel it can be taken as gospel.

Take 10 blokes who regularly drink 4-5 pints a night down the pub, they may be barely affected at all by being on the drink drive limit, take 120lb Chinese woman who drinks a glass of wine at Christmas get her up to the drink drive limit and she could be completely intoxicated.
The bigger the sample the more you even put these things.

But yeah, if you have your phone on your lap and you’re looking down at it for 10-20 seconds at a time while moving, then there is no reaction to anything going on outside the car.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Whats Noop ?

Get with it buoy. Noop is my Noo Panda. That why is Known as Noop which is of course short for New Pandatonio.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Even hands-free is a distraction.
Any call or text, or any other communication, puts a picture in your head of the person being communicated with. Your brain will give that picture a greater priority than the one your eyes are seeing. Reaction times to changing events outside are very seriously affected. Thatcham Research have conducted experiments with volunteers, and have determined that being on a phone, hands-free, still reduces the driver's reactions to worse than a driver on the drink-drive limit, but concentrating.
Ideally, bluetoothed to the car just gives you info on who is calling, to enable a decision, must I answer it now, do I need to find somewhere to stop as soon as possible, van I leave it until destination reached, or until I get home, or do I ignore it altogether. Of course, if you are just setting out on a long journey, and that needs to be cancelled, leaving the call until destination reached is a disappointment. However, such a call only needs to be, "can't see you today". Details can be discussed some other time.

I do agree. Its a severe distraction and to be avoided for the reasons you say. I remember following my H&S Director boss and the standard of his driving during a phone call he was clearly having was alarming and he was on his hands free kit. I do call home while driving but only to give time of arrival. I know it would be best not to.

 

[portland_bill]

I do agree. Its a severe distraction and to be avoided for the reasons you say. I remember following my H&S Director boss and the standard of his driving during a phone call he was clearly having was alarming and he was on his hands free kit. I do call home while driving but only to give time of arrival. I know it would be best not to.

Occasionally, while training corporate drivers, their phone will ring. Most will reject the call, but sometimes the caller keeps calling back. When a call is answered, I watch, and make notes about how their driving has changed during the call, then afterwards, find a place to stop and discuss. Every time, the driver has declared that it did not affect their driving, then realised it had as I went through the list of changes. Even very good drivers deteriorate markedly when on the phone.

Any call, if necessary (whatever you determine that to be), should be as short as possible. If the planned ETA has moved, just a quick, "home around 6:15" is all that is needed. The reasons why can be discussed over your congealed dinner. Similarly, anyone calling from home, requesting a shopping stop, only needs to state "need shopping" and end the call. The list can be sent by text. It needs to be managed.

When my partner was able, we had a system, 10 minutes from home, I'd hit the speed dial, let it ring twice, and cut it off. Cup of tea waiting on arrival.

 

[portland_bill]

I can imagine most people will be absolutely fine driving after 1 pint.

Even a tiny amount of alcohol can affect people.
During the summer I play bowls. League games involve some travelling of course, usually around 12 miles into Swindon. The driving is shared on a rota basis, so I've had a few years now of watching the drive home, after a small amount of alcohol.
Most of the club members would reduce their alcohol intake when driving. Usually this would be one pint of beer, or a small glass of wine, at the start of the game. 3-3½ hours later, so usually at least 2½ hours after the drink was finished, they would drive home. Every one's driving deteriorated to some extent. Even those I would consider good drivers (we had 3). This was discussed at an AGM (without being specific about individuals, but later several individual discussions were held), all the drivers agreed, voluntarily, not to drink when transporting others. Bowlers are a responsible lot, generally.
Most typical changes would be faster approach to junctions, later and heavier braking for all hazards, poor lane discipline, and harsher acceleration. These are the sort of things police officers notice when suspecting drink drivers.

 

[StevenRB45]

Occasionally, while training corporate drivers, their phone will ring. Most will reject the call, but sometimes the caller keeps calling back. When a call is answered, I watch, and make notes about how their driving has changed during the call, then afterwards, find a place to stop and discuss. Every time, the driver has declared that it did not affect their driving, then realised it had as I went through the list of changes. Even very good drivers deteriorate markedly when on the phone.

Any call, if necessary (whatever you determine that to be), should be as short as possible. If the planned ETA has moved, just a quick, "home around 6:15" is all that is needed. The reasons why can be discussed over your congealed dinner. Similarly, anyone calling from home, requesting a shopping stop, only needs to state "need shopping" and end the call. The list can be sent by text. It needs to be managed.

When my partner was able, we had a system, 10 minutes from home, I'd hit the speed dial, let it ring twice, and cut it off. Cup of tea waiting on arrival.

My confusion on this is not split concentration.

It's that if your partner was in the car you'd have a detailed conversation about what you're gonna have tea for the next 5 nights, what we're running low on and need at the shop, whether or not we need to buy the lad some new shoes as they are getting a bit tight etc. Etc.

So yeah I can get that when talking driving may change given they've probably been sat by Portland Bill fleet trainer and are on best behaviour which when the phone rings they forget somewhat. They go from conscious driving to driving on muscle memory...i.e. how they drive when they don't have an instructor present.

But it's not like you don't have exactly the same and possibly more detailed conversations with passengers.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

When creating laws and rules for driving they don't tend to come down on people unless there is evidence to back it up.

If there were overwhelming evidence that driving while talking hands free on a call, was as bad as drink driving or worse, Then we would definitely be having conversations about banning hands free calling..... The thing is here that there is not the evidence (that I can find in the public domain) to show this. It is also difficult to make this argument, when people talk in normal conversations while driving, or may have kids screaming in the back.

There comes a point when driving is safe "enough"

Driving while holding a phone up to your ear means you have one less hand free and you can't control the vehicle properly.
Driving with your head down reading or trying to write a text message, means you're not able to look ahead for long periods of time.

On hands free especially where voice control can also be used to make and end that call, is arguably no different than talking to a passenger in the car with you.

There is no law against talking to your passengers, there is no law preventing making hands free calls. Though if your attention does drop both can be dealt with within the remit of driving without due care and attention.

Most typical changes would be faster approach to junctions, later and heavier braking for all hazards, poor lane discipline, and harsher acceleration. These are the sort of things police officers notice when suspecting drink drivers.

I know plenty of people who drive like this and worse without having a drop of alcohol. Lets be honest you'd not have a job training fleet drivers, if peoples driving wasn't routinely sub-parr.
But once you go home at the end of the training, the bosses in that company are not going to be under any illusion that their drivers are now suddenly model citizens, at best they hope it might avoid an accident or two, enough to make the cost of the training worth while.

 

[StevenRB45]

To be fair,

I did find this

Drivers Distracted More By Cell Phones Than By Passengers

Drivers are far more distracted by talking on a cellular phone than by conversing with a passenger in an automobile, according to a new study. The study, which used a sophisticated driving simulator, found that when drivers talk on a cell phone, they drift out of their lanes and missed exits...

www.sciencedaily.com

It's from 2008 and in America where they are incapable of driving without a coffee in one hand and a phone in the other...but you'd imagine if there was a genuine concern they'd have acted in the 12 years since.

The Crux of it seems to be a passenger would point out you're about to die..

 

[StevenRB45]

Wife regularly points out this house opposite, can see it from the front room.

"eeee it's for sale let's get it".

£1.2 million...

Aye, love you sell your kidneys and lungs..and I'll sell my brain and we might be halfway there.

 

[vexorg]

Usually this would be one pint of beer, or a small glass of wine, at the start of the game. 3-3½ hours later, so usually at least 2½ hours after the drink was finished, they would drive home. Every one's driving deteriorated to some extent.

I find it hard to believe alcohol is to blame there, may be the company or the night out, or tired. Legally they should be well sober.

If you've ever had screaming/angry/hungry/fighting/vomiting children in the back of the car, then the hands-free call is nothing by comparison.

 

[Cheest]

Wife regularly points out this house opposite, can see it from the front room.

View attachment 426801

"eeee it's for sale let's get it".

£1.2 million...

Aye, love you sell your kidneys and lungs..and I'll sell my brain and we might be halfway there.

You have one of those too, eh?
I got tired of listening to her one day and said, "Sure, let's go look at that place.", in the vain hope that my agreeing to see the place would scare her into stopping to look at homes for sale.
And that is how we went from our mortgage free suburban 'Chez Fromage' to our $1900 a month rural estate known as 'Cheesy Manor'.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

to our $1900 a month rural estate known as 'Cheesy Manor'.

here in the uk that would equate to about £1450, which would buy you chez-semi detached house in the suburbs, with 3 bedrooms and a garden you can mow in about 15 minutes with a push mower.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

here in the uk that would equate to about £1450, which would buy you chez-semi detached house in the suburbs, with 3 bedrooms and a garden you can mow in about 15 minutes with a push mower.

Would hardly buy you a lockup garage up here in Edinburgh!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Would hardly buy you a lockup garage up here in Edinburgh!

I’m not surprised, there is a sea side town near here which beach huts that can sell for a quarter of a million.

 

[Cheest]

And now she is looking at travel trailers(caravans). I agree that we(me)are getting a bit long in the the tooth to be setting up and taking down our also long in the tooth pop up. But she’s looking at mansions on wheels while I want something that won’t require buying a new pick up to tow it.

I think we are going shopping tomorrow.

 

[portland_bill]

And now she is looking at travel trailers(caravans). I agree that we(me)are getting a bit long in the the tooth to be setting up and taking down our also long in the tooth pop up. But she’s looking at mansions on wheels while I want something that won’t require buying a new pick up to tow it.

I think we are going shopping tomorrow.

Before tomorrow, you need to find an antique caravan, to tow behind the DeSoto. That'll dampen the enthusiasm.

 

[Cheest]

Before tomorrow, you need to find an antique caravan, to tow behind the DeSoto. That'll dampen the enthusiasm.

Without a/c or cruise control on the DeSoto, my enthusiasm will dampen, too.

 

[Cheest]

So she has started what she normally does. Shows me a trailer that kind of piques my interest and when I say I kind of like it, she starts to show me other ones until I completely lose interest. My only real interest is towing weight, tongue weight and length. Floor plans and colors mean nothing. After spending 25 years in hotel rooms for work, it all looks the same anyway.
Shopping for furniture with her is an absolute nightmare. I have gotten to the point where I tell to just pick something because my opinion on her indoors never did matter.