What's made you grumpy today?

[porta]

In the vein of "What's made you grumpy today?" Does this qualify?
Just had a lorry driver drop of a 1 Tonne pallet of coal onto my Doblo!
Over the years I have had several similar deliveries with no problems, they reverse up the cul de sac, stop about 20 yards/metres away decant the pallet and pallet trucks off tail lift and roll down to the drive , where I can move with my pallet trucks to where I want it.
This time drove up , then decided to angle up to my drive block road and parked with lorry and tail lift leaning, pallet jammed halfway on lorry half on tail lift, then proceeded top drop tail lift in the hope the 1 tonne pallet would slide onto tail lift better, it didn't the load burst open and fell off tail lift.
The damage is just to o/s/f/ wing once bags moved, but will have to see what courier has to say!

Yup…think that qualifies, more so than what I was just about to post…bloody electric windows have stopped working on the Jeep XJ, the AC gave up the ghost last year…and to think the US fell out of love with Fiat for build quality…jeeze

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I'd be considering getting the broken part made rather than pay that.

Ebay, second hand one and swap the bits you need. Then stick the broken on one ebay, someone will want a compressor and might have the clutch part.

As I'd said above I have bought a cheap £60 compressor on Ebay already which should hopefully turn up tomorrow.

Hopefully I can take the pulley off that and fit it to my car fixing the issue. If I find the compressor has a tight spot or issue with turning I have not been able to assess, I then have (hopefully) a working aircon compressor and a brother with a Regas machine

I am still laying down in shock, owing to two ex wives and five children none of the three vehicles I currently have taxed and Moted on the road even cost the £745 price of the compressor.

1 ex wife but before children, and 1 current wife with 1x child who's relatively small and takes up little space so I don't have your financial commitments.
Honestly I could chuck a grand at it and have the garage round the corner do the work but what's the point in chucking a perfectly good compressor for a broken pulley wheel.
This is what Manufacturer's want, is customers to pay massive bills for parts like this, that can then be reengineered for very little money and sold on again making them more money.
Without going off on a right to repair rant. The current situation of companies deciding what people are and are not allowed to repair is stupid. In my case making the compressor one piece that has to be replaced if the pulley fails that puts the repair in the hands of professionals only, but as shown by Bills searches, there are companies making the parts to affect these repairs, so why aren't VW. waste like this is inexcusable.

I did a post a few years back about the push to always need new brakes by main dealers. They want to replace both the discs and the pads which is rarely needed, and then they start telling you, that you need new pads when there is about 80% material still on the pads. (I actually got the parts back from the VW dealer when they insisted the discs and pads needed replacing and measured the wear with a set of calipers, then emailed the pictures of the parts and the measurements to the manager of the dealer ship.
£300 for a set of discs with fitting at the VW dealer, (which they ended up giving me free) I still have the original rear discs and pads on the car now which has now covered 90k miles and I've owned the car from new, so I know exactly what has and hasn't been replaced.

 

[StevenRB45]

I did a post a few years back about the push to always need new brakes by main dealers. They want to replace both the discs and the pads which is rarely needed, and then they start telling you, that you need new pads when there is about 80% material still on the pads. (I actually got the parts back from the VW dealer when they insisted the discs and pads needed replacing and measured the wear with a set of calipers, then emailed the pictures of the parts and the measurements to the manager of the dealer ship.
£300 for a set of discs with fitting at the VW dealer, (which they ended up giving me free) I still have the original rear discs and pads on the car now which has now covered 90k miles and I've owned the car from new, so I know exactly what has and hasn't been replaced.

Ah you've not encountered PSA self destructive pads yet...

The discs appear to made of a special material that wears unevenly on all 4 at 4x the rate of a normal disc.

As a result they score up a treat in an incredibly short space of time (ours have done 18k and look they been on 100k miles). Because they lip, score and wear unevenly not changing the pads is a good way to kill the new (possibly plasticine) discs.

Although my own petty act of vengeance for this is to pay for the warranty at 200 quid...which seems daft. Except it covers MOT failure up to 750 quid and new discs and pads all round are 650...so when the inevitable call comes at MOT time the answer is yes get Citroën to pay for it.

 

[portland_bill]

As I'd said above I have bought a cheap £60 compressor on Ebay already which should hopefully turn up tomorrow.

Hopefully I can take the pulley off that and fit it to my car fixing the issue. If I find the compressor has a tight spot or issue with turning I have not been able to assess, I then have (hopefully) a working aircon compressor and a brother with a Regas machine


1 ex wife but before children, and 1 current wife with 1x child who's relatively small and takes up little space so I don't have your financial commitments.
Honestly I could chuck a grand at it and have the garage round the corner do the work but what's the point in chucking a perfectly good compressor for a broken pulley wheel.
This is what Manufacturer's want, is customers to pay massive bills for parts like this, that can then be reengineered for very little money and sold on again making them more money.
Without going off on a right to repair rant. The current situation of companies deciding what people are and are not allowed to repair is stupid. In my case making the compressor one piece that has to be replaced if the pulley fails that puts the repair in the hands of professionals only, but as shown by Bills searches, there are companies making the parts to affect these repairs, so why aren't VW. waste like this is inexcusable.

I did a post a few years back about the push to always need new brakes by main dealers. They want to replace both the discs and the pads which is rarely needed, and then they start telling you, that you need new pads when there is about 80% material still on the pads. (I actually got the parts back from the VW dealer when they insisted the discs and pads needed replacing and measured the wear with a set of calipers, then emailed the pictures of the parts and the measurements to the manager of the dealer ship.
£300 for a set of discs with fitting at the VW dealer, (which they ended up giving me free) I still have the original rear discs and pads on the car now which has now covered 90k miles and I've owned the car from new, so I know exactly what has and hasn't been replaced.

Some of this comes down to inventory costs, and profit margins. Anyone in retail will know, that each square cm of space needs to contribute its share of income to cover the fixed costs (rent, rates), plus variable costs such as wages, heat and light, etc. A part that sits too long between sales needs a large profit margin. A small part contributes less profit, but takes the same costs to pick, pack and despatch. Selling a complete compressor only gains sales for whatever failure reason, rather than sharing sales between components. However, the individual parts are manufactured by different companies, so can be made available for individual sale, and smaller aftermarket companies, with lower costs, can stock them. Having them available generates sales, but for VW (or any other vehicle manufacturer), they list only for the vehicles in their range. If the same clutch pulley is used on many makes, an aftermarket supplier, such as Autodoc, can list the same item for all, making sales greater. Economics don't work the same for everybody.

With brakes, having spent some time at a large dealer service department, longer service intervals have created much of this problem. At the annual service, the brakes have to be assessed, amount of wear, timescale, and from that, estimated life. If they are deemed to expire before the next service, they have to recommend replacement now, otherwise, when the brakes fail, the owner will blame the dealer. Whilst that will be alien to most of us on here, reality says otherwise for most of the public. Smaller garages (and sometimes the larger ones) will tell the owner about the state, and recommend they pop back in in 6 months for a quick inspection, free of charge. If not needed then, the return request is repeated, at reducing intervals. This works for reliable, repeat customers, but not all. As we drift further towards blaming everyone else, the potential victims have to cover their a**es.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Some of this comes down to inventory costs, and profit margins. Anyone in retail will know, that each square cm of space needs to contribute its share of income to cover the fixed costs (rent, rates), plus variable costs such as wages, heat and light, etc. A part that sits too long between sales needs a large profit margin. A small part contributes less profit, but takes the same costs to pick, pack and despatch. Selling a complete compressor only gains sales for whatever failure reason, rather than sharing sales between components. However, the individual parts are manufactured by different companies, so can be made available for individual sale, and smaller aftermarket companies, with lower costs, can stock them. Having them available generates sales, but for VW (or any other vehicle manufacturer), they list only for the vehicles in their range. If the same clutch pulley is used on many makes, an aftermarket supplier, such as Autodoc, can list the same item for all, making sales greater. Economics don't work the same for everybody.

I had work in manufacturing with FLUKE back in the early/mid 2000s so I know how complex a system of keeping inventory can get. VW minimize this by using the same components as much as possible across a wide range of cars. The thing here is they get Denzo in my case to make them an aircon compressor and slap a VW part number sticker on it. Then order this part by the 10s of thousands. and use it across multiple factories and car models. Its fare to say that many cars especially this time of year will need this part replacing (especially from all those people who just ignored the aircon issue till the sun came out) so to some degree VW will be able to predict how many they would need to supply.

Denso also make their own "aftermarket" version of the exact same compressor the only difference being its not an "official" VW part, but its made by the same people who made the VW part and takes up the same amount of space cost to store and pack and make as the original VW part and it doesn't make sense for Denso to have a different production line for the part as it still needs to be made to manufacturers specifications. So really lets be honest, its the same part just without the VW sticker.
But they charge a 3rd of the price than VW do.

There is absolutely no doubt that car manufacturers price gouge on the basis of being they're the official manufacture of that car so if you buy anything from anyone else its "not to their standard" even though they buy the parts in themselves.

A good example of this is Lamborghini (also VW) who will charge completely different prices for exactly the same thing dependent on if the intention is to fit it to an Audi or a Lamborghini.

With brakes, having spent some time at a large dealer service department, longer service intervals have created much of this problem. At the annual service, the brakes have to be assessed, amount of wear, timescale, and from that, estimated life. If they are deemed to expire before the next service, they have to recommend replacement now, otherwise, when the brakes fail, the owner will blame the dealer. Whilst that will be alien to most of us on here, reality says otherwise for most of the public. Smaller garages (and sometimes the larger ones) will tell the owner about the state, and recommend they pop back in in 6 months for a quick inspection, free of charge. If not needed then, the return request is repeated, at reducing intervals. This works for reliable, repeat customers, but not all. As we drift further towards blaming everyone else, the potential victims have to cover their a**es.

I agree with what you're saying. In my case I am a very light user of the brakes, someone who prefers to read the road ahead and bleed off the speed naturally rather than accelerate like an idiot towards a red light and brake hard when I get there and its still red.
This means when they did finally change my front discs and pads they were probably 40k miles old, but when measured compared to the new ones they had less than 10% wear, and visibly it was difficult to discern any wear in the discs or the pads. So I am inclined to say any prediction on wear and the need for replacement was based soley on the mileage of the car and not on the condition of the parts. I know garages have to cover their arse to some degree but its well known that brakes are nice easy scare to pocket some extra money at months end. Many people will get the work done for safety if you tell them their brakes are worn and need replacing. (mostly)

 

[The Panda Nut]

As I'd said above I have bought a cheap £60 compressor on Ebay already which should hopefully turn up tomorrow.

Hopefully I can take the pulley off that and fit it to my car fixing the issue. If I find the compressor has a tight spot or issue with turning I have not been able to assess, I then have (hopefully) a working aircon compressor and a brother with a Regas machine


1 ex wife but before children, and 1 current wife with 1x child who's relatively small and takes up little space so I don't have your financial commitments.
Honestly I could chuck a grand at it and have the garage round the corner do the work but what's the point in chucking a perfectly good compressor for a broken pulley wheel.
This is what Manufacturer's want, is customers to pay massive bills for parts like this, that can then be reengineered for very little money and sold on again making them more money.
Without going off on a right to repair rant. The current situation of companies deciding what people are and are not allowed to repair is stupid. In my case making the compressor one piece that has to be replaced if the pulley fails that puts the repair in the hands of professionals only, but as shown by Bills searches, there are companies making the parts to affect these repairs, so why aren't VW. waste like this is inexcusable.

I did a post a few years back about the push to always need new brakes by main dealers. They want to replace both the discs and the pads which is rarely needed, and then they start telling you, that you need new pads when there is about 80% material still on the pads. (I actually got the parts back from the VW dealer when they insisted the discs and pads needed replacing and measured the wear with a set of calipers, then emailed the pictures of the parts and the measurements to the manager of the dealer ship.
£300 for a set of discs with fitting at the VW dealer, (which they ended up giving me free) I still have the original rear discs and pads on the car now which has now covered 90k miles and I've owned the car from new, so I know exactly what has and hasn't been replaced.

I totally agree. Inexcusable is a very mild way of expressing it. Its downright unethical and disgusting that manufactureres dont have ethical environmental policies. However what does anyone expect of VW on this front. Their disgraceefiul and disrespectful behaviour is well known and celarly continues. Market leader? I think leading is the last thing I think of when thinking of this unethical company!!!

Im not saying any of the others is better but VW as one of the biggest manufactureres owes it to the planet to stop this forthwith. Another area the EU chooses to ignore. Corrupt does not get nearas far as I can see.

If VW cant be bothered to act in a proper manner what hope is there that other smaller competing companies will be able to do so?

 

[MichalD]

Mixed feelings, sorry for your damage, sure good he's ok.
Was it just a moment of lack of power steering ? How did you become aware of the source of problem, did your dad just described it this way, or you see it not working now, after crash ? Asking not to question it, sure you know it well, just to have a full picture, because this sounds like very serious failure. One of my closest from family drives Punto. Does this "reliability" is an issue you've heard more about ?

 

[StevenRB45]

Im not saying any of the others is better but VW as one of the biggest manufactureres owes it to the planet to stop this forthwith. Another area the EU chooses to ignore. Corrupt does not get nearas far as I can see.

This doesn't end where you think it does though.

Current thinking seems to be the car as a service. So the car will be designed to last in an "as new" condition for 15 years or more. Battery pack will be replaceable/upgradeable as will the motor and any other large mechanical components. Body will designed to be easily repaired, with basic tools, infotainment provided by your phone so it never goes out of date..

But you'll never own the damn thing, you'll pay a monthly for a pre-agreed time and at the end of that have the option to end the deal or upgrade the oily bits to the latest spec and take up a new monthly. If you do upgrade your old bits will be either used as spares for someone else or reclaimed.

This is genuinely what Stellantis are aiming at they have recently set up a partnership with a car recycling firm to start reclaiming parts and cars at an industrial scale to put back into circulation/recycle.

If you never own it, you can't take it outside the dealer network, there's no right to repair issues and they want to control second hand parts as well..

 

[PuntoHowTo]

This doesn't end where you think it does though.

Current thinking seems to be the car as a service. So the car will be designed to last in an "as new" condition for 15 years or more. Battery pack will be replaceable/upgradeable as will the motor and any other large mechanical components. Body will designed to be easily repaired, with basic tools, infotainment provided by your phone so it never goes out of date..

But you'll never own the damn thing, you'll pay a monthly for a pre-agreed time and at the end of that have the option to end the deal or upgrade the oily bits to the latest spec and take up a new monthly. If you do upgrade your old bits will be either used as spares for someone else or reclaimed.

This is genuinely what Stellantis are aiming at they have recently set up a partnership with a car recycling firm to start reclaiming parts and cars at an industrial scale to put back into circulation/recycle.

If you never own it, you can't take it outside the dealer network, there's no right to repair issues and they want to control second hand parts as well..

Indeed some manufacturers are already making tentative movements towards a subscription model making certain upgrades like heated seats a subscription service if you don’t want to pay the higher price to have them activated permanently.
Ironically it wasn’t that long ago that people shunned the idea of battery subscriptions on electric cars but this was seemingly way ahead of its time.

The Tesla model 3 was entirely designed with a shared ownership pay as you ride model in mind where the owner of the car could buy it, use it as they wish but when not in use the car could “self drive” itself to go pick up paying taxi passengers. Literally everything in the car is electronic so settings can return to what the owner wants when they get back in

 

[StevenRB45]

Indeed some manufacturers are already making tentative movements towards a subscription model making certain upgrades like heated seats a subscription service if you don’t want to pay the higher price to have them activated permanently.
Ironically it wasn’t that long ago that people shunned the idea of battery subscriptions on electric cars but this was seemingly way ahead of its time.

The Tesla model 3 was entirely designed with a shared ownership pay as you ride model in mind where the owner of the car could buy it, use it as they wish but when not in use the car could “self drive” itself to go pick up paying taxi passengers. Literally everything in the car is electronic so settings can return to what the owner wants when they get back in

It'll be interesting to see what they do re. Pricing it ever happens.

What's worth more a 5 year old car with a small battery and old powertrain with 30k miles on it, or a 12 year old car with 120k on it but latest powertrain and bigger battery fitted?

The idea is all cars regardless of age should be able to be the same standard with mild re-conditioning after each "owner" so in theory the second one would cost you more monthly as it's higher spec. Not sure how they'll sell that one, got a new car mate, erm it's 12? But the engine and battery are brand new!...not sure how that one flies.

 

[vexorg]

I did a post a few years back about the push to always need new brakes by main dealers. They want to replace both the discs and the pads which is rarely needed, and then they start telling you, that you need new pads when there is about 80% material still on the pads.

Audi wanted to charge mt brother £1200 for new discs and pads as part of a normal service. They didn't look that bad to me, but he wanted them changed because audi said so. The local motorfactors had them all for about £200, and I changed them with no real issue (other than having to rig up someting to power the electric handbrake)

Ah you've not encountered PSA self destructive pads yet...

The discs appear to made of a special material that wears unevenly on all 4 at 4x the rate of a normal disc.

Mine have been fine, current;y on about 50k miles since I change them, though I mainly do dual carriage way for most of the way to work and back, and they are massively oversized for the car.

 

[portland_bill]

I used to be very light on my brakes, often seeing 60k or more before pads needed, but with the Fabia I am now deliberately exercising them more frequently.
Bought used, with low miles, so probably used locally by the previous owner. Around 40k, the rear discs were horrible due to rust, although hardly worn when the thickness was measured. Pads were also hardly worn. Had to change the discs and pads, just due to their rusty condition. To prevent a recurrence, I will at least once a week, use the brakes a little harder, a long descent is good for this, and feel the rear brakes working. Hopefully will keep the rust at bay.

 

[StevenRB45]

Mine have been fine, current;y on about 50k miles since I change them, though I mainly do dual carriage way for most of the way to work and back, and they are massively oversized for the car.

3 things work against ours, first it's a modern petrol. So when they say low internal friction...and low drive train losses they mean it. Unfortunately this eliminates 90% of engine braking, if you lift in 5th you may as well be coasting in neutral, same in 4th, even in 3rd it's best described as barely present.

Also we live in the country at the top of a hill, lots of winding roads, uphill, downhill into corners etc you spend a lot of time on the brake pedal as a result of both of these.

Finally PF1 based cars don't have brake backing plates. So in winter the inner faces of the discs get blasted with grit and the summer dirt and dust. As a result inner faces wear much faster than outers.

On my previous car front discs lasted 53k..rears were original at 90k..

 

[vexorg]

if you lift in 5th you may as well be coasting in neutral, same in 4th, even in 3rd it's best described as barely present.

We've also got a hybrid juke, exact opposite with e-pedal on, it's like putting the brakes on as you lift off the accelerator. No brakes used, just the hybrid goes into max recharge mode.

 

[StevenRB45]

We've also got a hybrid juke, exact opposite with e-pedal on, it's like putting the brakes on as you lift off the accelerator. No brakes used, just the hybrid goes into max recharge mode.

Well I suppose having to cope with a Nissan CVT and 2 separate drive trains to do one job has to have some advantages.

 

[porta]

We've also got a hybrid juke, exact opposite with e-pedal on, it's like putting the brakes on as you lift off the accelerator. No brakes used, just the hybrid goes into max recharge mode.

Yes, our HiSun ‘bug’ (like a John Deere gator) does the same…it was unnerving the first time I experienced it, as it’s so light, it really does retard the bug going downhill, more so than a road going EV car

 

[porta]

Going off piste here…
Cherokee XJ:
Electric windows have gone one by one, front two together a couple of days ago.
AirCon went ages ago, it’s a common weakness with these, to the extent that most just delete it, and I mean, rip out the whole bloody lot. But can’t go without windows…
I did the mod to the switches last year, which means resoldering all the contacts on all the switches, control unit, sockets etc. And replaced the Earth which swans around osf footwell, through a-post and to the door, so…
Hours of fun today, four broken wires in door/footwell, of which, the offending Earth, I’ve repaired before, all of which need extending…and that’s just on my door…it’s a pain as you’ve got to remove sill trim to get to footwell/a-post trim, but firstly you’ve got to remove seat. Bugger that, so I’ve got out as much trim as I need to ‘flex’ the footwell trim out.
So I’m now at a stage where I can see how much wire I’ve got to play with, none, so now I’m having to remove the fusebox, which is also in footwell…it won’t beat me but don’t ever complain to me about Italian wiring! Right, I’m having my dinner, if only to walk away before I blow my top
PS…it’s too damned hot

 

[vexorg]

Well I suppose having to cope with a Nissan CVT and 2 separate drive trains to do one job has to have some advantages.

Not sure it does have the CVT part, it's some weird Renault thing (claimed to be derived from their F1 car) with a 2 speed box on the electric motor and 4 speed box on the petrol.
Either way, i';s by far the smoothest auto I've ever driven.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I used to be very light on my brakes, often seeing 60k or more before pads needed, but with the Fabia I am now deliberately exercising them more frequently.

mine is garaged when not in use and when it is used it’s all long faster journeys so they get slight surface rust from moisture in the air but never bad, then when it’s put away it’s usually had a couple of high speed - zero stops just before getting home, heating them up enough to clear any water if it’s raining.

The rear discs and pads are the originals and have very normal wear but also very light wear considering the 90k miles they’ve seen

3 things work against ours, first it's a modern petrol. So when they say low internal friction...and low drive train losses they mean it. Unfortunately this eliminates 90% of engine braking, if you lift in 5th you may as well be coasting in neutral, same in 4th, even in 3rd it's best described as barely present.

The Bluemotion tech in my car does the complete opposite.
the car has regenerative braking so off the power like an electric car there is a huge amount of “engine braking”

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Audi wanted to charge mt brother £1200 for new discs and pads as part of a normal service. They didn't look that bad to me, but he wanted them changed because audi said so. The local motorfactors had them all for about £200,

£1200 even at Audi prices is pretty high? I think the Abarth two part floating discs cost something in this region and they have Brembo multipot calipers to match.

£200 at the motor factors still suggests they were something a bit different to normal even if they were just a weird size with low demand.

The front discs and Pads on my golf are £150ish for the parts from VW. The genuine ones don't seem to rust around the edges either.

Say you Doubled the Motor factors price for genuine parts or even triple it and you're still looking at £600 for the YTS boy to fit them !!