What's made you grumpy today?

[Noxide]

I know what you mean about age - I've seen blokes in their 30's driving, frankly dangerously (modified) cars, and yet if I want to fork out at 22 for a decent suspension, or heaven help anyone who tries to add air suspension, I can't do it!

I hated the black box because I would get s**t scores for driving at 9am and 5pm to work and back.. I will bear in mind the flexibility of alloys as mine are on the way out!

Haha I didn't look at my scores once in the whole year I had it! Didn't even know you could until 6 months in. Never got a letter or angry email so I never bothered, and it obviously had nout impact on my premium this year! To be honest at £400-450 I'm not complaining.
I think part of it is just asking them what they can and can't do - I got the woman to run three different quotes with various modification combinations, and they were more than happy to do all that.
Also if I ever do have a crash, I look forward to Harvey Keitel turning up to help me!

 

[lxocallaghan]

Utterly ridiculous but just going to suck it up this year and hopefully find something else at renewal!

Black box is rubbish, wouldn't recommend it to anyone unless they drive like an old lady.

That's a good idea actually, will consider doing that in advance to buying anything, just glad to know I have options with mods. Thanks mate!

 

[Liquid Knight]

Grumpy today over another thread, someone trying to skimp on suspension bolts, to save a few pennies. We have to share the road with them!

You mean like the coach bolts I found on my Cinquecento last year?

Still could be worse.

https://www.facebook.com/streetfx/videos/10158373983565112/

 

[SB1500]

Personally guys I'd steer clear of anything not intended for the car by its manufacturer.

It could be the finest Febi Bilstein or Sachs made parts - no issue with quality or that - just the simple fact the car is unpredictable with those parts and not fully tested to work with them in all situations.

And professionally fitted? To be honest if mechanics are the same in England as they are here in N. Ireland then someone with no mechanical experience could probably do a better job fitting them! They only want to change your bulbs here! Lol

Unless you're talking 'professional' such as the sort of team that would take a standard Panda and turn it into the likes of the PanDAKAR rally car (computer designed parts, rapid prototype testing, highly qualified teams of engineers making changes who know what they're doing etc) then personally I wouldn't risk it.

Each to their own! That's my two cents.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Personally guys I'd steer clear of anything not intended for the car by its manufacturer.

It could be the finest Febi Bilstein or Sachs made parts - no issue with quality or that - just the simple fact the car is unpredictable with those parts and not fully tested to work with them in all situations.

And professionally fitted? To be honest if mechanics are the same in England as they are here in N. Ireland then someone with no mechanical experience could probably do a better job fitting them! They only want to change your bulbs here! Lol

Unless you're talking 'professional' such as the sort of team that would take a standard Panda and turn it into the likes of the PanDAKAR rally car (computer designed parts, rapid prototype testing, highly qualified teams of engineers making changes who know what they're doing etc) then personally I wouldn't risk it.

Each to their own! That's my two cents.

99% of people who do modify the suspension is for looks and vanity rather than function or improvement. There are loads of "lowering kits" which consist of some shorter springs to make the car lower but those have the potential inherent problem of stressing the shocks and other components.

More advanced kits might have springs and dampeners, but like for like a set of replacement oem parts still cost more, the kits are cheap and poor quality.

Ther is the final option of proper quality lowering kits which have good quality springs and damperners that cost conserderably more than OEM but you are talking about several hundred £££ but the home modifiers just want results cheap, so that final option is rarely taken up.

This means what insurers are routinely insuring are substandard parts, hence the higher insurance cost or some insurers just saying no

 

[SB1500]

99% of people who do modify the suspension is for looks and vanity rather than function or improvement. There are loads of "lowering kits" which consist of some shorter springs to make the car lower but those have the potential inherent problem of stressing the shocks and other components.



More advanced kits might have springs and dampeners, but like for like a set of replacement oem parts still cost more, the kits are cheap and poor quality.



Ther is the final option of proper quality lowering kits which have good quality springs and damperners that cost conserderably more than OEM but you are talking about several hundred £££ but the home modifiers just want results cheap, so that final option is rarely taken up.



This means what insurers are routinely insuring are substandard parts, hence the higher insurance cost or some insurers just saying no

I'll never understand how it looks good either to be honest. Perhaps that's a personal gripe though. Not seeing the consistent gap of the wheel and wheel arch just doesn't make design sense to me! Lol

Yeah, the stress on other parts and poor ride quality has to be another hubs down side. I've had people tell me it makes the car handle better before but I highly doubt anyone with an adequate mechanical knowledge has backed such a thought! :-O

If we didn't all share the road my view would be 'let em wreck their car if they want' it's just the fact the safety issues could cause an unsuspecting motorist to be involved in an accident.

Oh.. and the fact I'm 21 and insurance on my FIAT PANDA .. is £1700 a YEAR! :-(

Personally if they said NO more maybe we'd get lower premiums. Then again.. insurance companies don't want that either!

 

[puntofan01]

I'll never understand how it looks good either to be honest. Perhaps that's a personal gripe though. Not seeing the consistent gap of the wheel and wheel arch just doesn't make design sense to me! Lol

You're forgetting that chavs and tasteful are 2 words that are never used in the same sentence, lol!

 

[lxocallaghan]

You have to have a gap in the wheel arch just not a 30cm gap like the grande punto [emoji6]

 

[lxocallaghan]

99% of people who do modify the suspension is for looks and vanity rather than function or improvement. There are loads of "lowering kits" which consist of some shorter springs to make the car lower but those have the potential inherent problem of stressing the shocks and other components.



More advanced kits might have springs and dampeners, but like for like a set of replacement oem parts still cost more, the kits are cheap and poor quality.



Ther is the final option of proper quality lowering kits which have good quality springs and damperners that cost conserderably more than OEM but you are talking about several hundred £££ but the home modifiers just want results cheap, so that final option is rarely taken up.



This means what insurers are routinely insuring are substandard parts, hence the higher insurance cost or some insurers just saying no

Always thought eibach sportlines were better quality than oem as they provide durability and more predictable steering due to better feel of the road much like my old Ka with no power steering? Also cheap lowering suspension kits have got to be better than oem suspension with 70,000 miles on it?? Final nag is what is the point of lowered abarth springs if they're actually counterproductive? Just saying..

 

[StevenRB45]

Always thought eibach sportlines were better quality than oem as they provide durability and more predictable steering due to better feel of the road much like my old Ka with no power steering? Also cheap lowering suspension kits have got to be better than oem suspension with 70,000 miles on it?? Final nag is what is the point of lowered abarth springs if they're actually counterproductive? Just saying..

New OEM spec suspension can be just as transformative, I renewed the shocks and bushes on a 8 year old punto that had done 50k and it was a different car. Replacing shagged components should always provide an improvement.

Like most things in this area it all depends on the quality of the components in question and if the person fitting them knew what they were doing. If like many people do you fit your 10 year old hatchback with lowering springs and do nothing with the old dampers or tired bushes that provide much of the feedback are still knackered. However the camber is now wrong because the vast majority of cars are set so at stock ride height the contact patch of the tyre is at the optimum angle and unless it has a nice multilink or double wish bone set up at lower ride height the wheels now sit incorrectly possibly leading to erratic on the limit handling and dodgy tyre wear before you even decide to fit washers for more camber cos it's scene...then stretch the tyres just to make sure it's really really scene.

Yes you can fit kits to allow the optimum camber to be restored, fit proper coil overs e.t.c. and you know tyres that fit..but your insurance company doesn't know that.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

Always thought eibach sportlines were better quality than oem as they provide durability and more predictable steering due to better feel of the road much like my old Ka with no power steering? Also cheap lowering suspension kits have got to be better than oem suspension with 70,000 miles on it?? Final nag is what is the point of lowered abarth springs if they're actually counterproductive? Just saying..

Obviously if your perception is that they are better quality then you're buying into what they want you to believe.

All these springs are made from the same type and specification of spring steel and they will have the same number of turns and be the same shape to fit into the rest of the suspension set up.

So the only difference from OEM is the overall length of the spring, reduced by making the coils closer together.

A higher quality item might have stiffer steel so that the springs are firmer, but that does not = more predictable steering. As pointed out updating any old and worn suspension components is going to lead to improved performance.

Car companies never used to lower performance cars but it is now expected of a performance car to be lower, so it wouldn't give the appearance of a performance car these days to any potential buyer, unless it was lower

When abarth get hold of the car they don't just swap the springs out, they will uprate the dampeners and roll bars and if lowering the car then it will have a different suspension geometry. Most people who lower their cars may still have the standard suspension alignment done which is designed to fit with standard suspension.

 

[lxocallaghan]

I didn't say they were better quality I said "I thought they were", thus allowing me to be corrected if they weren't, twas more of a question than opinion!

My logic for more predictable steering was the stiffer the springs = a better feel for road surface. Much like riding an aluminium bike instead of a carbon bike.

That was my main point, these new springs even with original dampeners and anti roll bars are better than old worn out springs in the same setup surely? Thus better despite not having updated dampeners and roll bars etc. However I do agree the whole setup should be adjusted to cater for the new springs and actually dampeners and shocks are more important.

Thanks for answering my other question as to why Abarth lower cars, fair reason to criticise in comparison to neglected suspension setups.

FYI: Though I did only quote you I was also responding to SB1500 in the same post!

 

[PuntoHowTo]

I didn't say they were better quality I said "I thought they were", thus allowing me to be corrected if they weren't, twas more of a question than opinion!

Indeed you did, I used the word 'perception' which is a synonym of thought, basically I stated that your thought of better quality is not necessarily correct.

My logic for more predictable steering was the stiffer the springs = a better feel for road surface. Much like riding an aluminium bike instead of a carbon bike.

The best handling cars will keep all 4 wheels in contact with the tarmac at all times
Racing cars have very stiff suspension but they may be driving in ultra smooth race tracks, which is worlds apart from what you would find on normal roads. Better handling cars might have stiffer suspension but this is matched with the dampeners and other suspension components. To keep the wheels on the road.
Fitting hard springs may well result in unpredictable and hard bouncing of the springs with under rated dampeners unable to cope. The dampeners if already weak from age may give up very quickly. Basically it's more than just a set of springs ales the car drive and handle well

That was my main point, these new springs even with original dampeners and anti roll bars are better than old worn out springs in the same setup surely? Thus better despite not having updated dampeners and roll bars etc. However I do agree the whole setup should be adjusted to cater for the new springs and actually dampeners and shocks are more important.

Which is what I agreed with you on, but even then uprated components can still be not as good as if you'd just put OEM parts on.
An insurance company can usually say the car might not perform as well but at least it is predictable, with aftermarket lowering kits they can not predict the characteristics of the car and this is what they are having to make a decision on when deciding the premium you pay.

Thanks for answering my other question as to why Abarth lower cars, fair reason to criticise in comparison to neglected suspension setups.

When a car sits on the forecourt on lowered abarth suspension, the simple fact is that that car has undergone millions of pounds worth of research and development, crash testing and conforms to all the relevant safety and build quality standards.
An insurance company have a standard by which to assess the insurance risk of every one of those cars.

As soon as you take the springs out and fit something after market, you have potentially taken that car outside of those standards, even if individually the parts all meet the relevant standards separately, as far as an insurance company is concerned they have not need tested together.

 

[SB1500]

I completely share the view of AndyRKett on this one.

I don't think any setup myself or you guys can come up with can match that of the designers of these cars and their millions of pounds of R&D, testing and liability over their work

 

[lxocallaghan]

I also agree, all points are relevant, and R&D does play a huge difference! Sorry if I made you grumpy today [emoji6]

 

[StevenRB45]

Interesting commute this morning about halfway had to divert due to this. (Photo nicked from Northumbria police)


As a result I was off my usual B road commute onto a single track road over the fell..until the section that's flanked by old oak trees. Then spent what felt like an eternity picking my way through fallen bits of tree ( actually only a few minutes).

Having escaped back onto the fell I started to unclench and then the headlamps picked out the confusing sight of a male pheasant investigating a crt monitor that was in the middle of the road.

Thankfully I was taking it easy so there was no car/pheasant/monitor interaction..

But damn that was a commute and a half.

 

[Noxide]

I'll never understand how it looks good either to be honest. Perhaps that's a personal gripe though. Not seeing the consistent gap of the wheel and wheel arch just doesn't make design sense to me! Lol

To be fair, cars sat flat on their bums don't appeal to me, but like, a half inch/inch drop I wouldn't object to at all.

Different strokes for different folks I guess.




Not made me grumpy, but a bit like "mhmm..." was an argument on YouTube that a Porsche 911 GT(whatever the hell) is the best daily driver going.. Like.. what.

 

[portland_bill]

Fighting a Land Rover cylinder head. Found a couple of threads with 'helicoil' repairs, but only used short inserts, need longer ones. Ordered a kit, advertised as containing thread inserts 1.5x dia of thread. Arrived today, only 1.0x dia, same as already in head. Needed tomorrow, now no chance.
Not cheap, specialist engineering kit, ordered from specialist supplier, packaged by idiots in Germany.
Quality as a concept is disappearing fast, whether product or service.

 

[Ziggy122]

Fighting a Land Rover cylinder head. Found a couple of threads with 'helicoil' repairs, but only used short inserts, need longer ones. Ordered a kit, advertised as containing thread inserts 1.5x dia of thread. Arrived today, only 1.0x dia, same as already in head. Needed tomorrow, now no chance.
Not cheap, specialist engineering kit, ordered from specialist supplier, packaged by idiots in Germany.
Quality as a concept is disappearing fast, whether product or service.

Tbh i dislike Somebody else picking my order.... ^^ That sorta crap is why
If i can get it from a shop so i can pick and check it myself - i will

Ziggy

 

[Liquid Knight]

I don't fit in the new Spyder.

Move the seat back and it's up against the rear bulk head and it's stuck upright. Have it a little forward and a enough of a lean and I have to sit with my legs open like a vagifresh advert because the steering wheel doesn't go high enough.

:bang:

Still not as bad as the SLK I drove last week. I couldn't get in or out of that without swearing.