Technical Weak front arms (wishbones)

[VelosiFed]

Dear community, I've bended and changed front arms four times for two years! It is annoying.
Before Panda I've had an Opel (vauxhall) Zafira, and it's hardware was way more stronger.

Maybe someone knows how to strengthen them?

 

[jackwhoo]

Bent wishbones !
How did they get bent?
Jacking under wishbone to lift car?

 

[porta]

Never heard of this

 

[varesecrazy]

Dear community, I've bended and changed front arms four times for two years! It is annoying.
Before Panda I've had an Opel (vauxhall) Zafira, and it's hardware was way more stronger.

Maybe someone knows how to strengthen them?

Were they factory arms, the 1st time?

A Spanish owner was breaking Rear suspension each year.. On a rough path

But I think front was ok..

 

[KPat]

Only underside collisions could bend them. Driving across a boulder field perhaps.

 

[VelosiFed]

No. No underside collisions.
One time I've hitted rock, and another three — just a lot of driving by non asphalt roads. Rough driving. Last time it bended, when I've strongly hitted breaks from 110km/h to 10km/h on very bumpy road (when I was going 110 it felt much less bumpy

They always bend backwards, until wheel touches chassis.

*I've showed bending way on the photo.

 

[jackwhoo]

strengthening could be a very bad idea if the forces are then transmitted elsewhere causing something else much more expensive to break or the arm to break rather than bend.

Driving at less speed could make the parts last longer.

 

[jrkitching]

Driving at less speed could make the parts last longer.

Almost certainly, and sticking with the factory 13" wheels helps.

Edit: Oops - sorry - was thinking about the Panda 169!

I believe standard steel wheels for the Panda run 175/65R14 - anyone confirm this?

I'm still running on the original arms after 113,000 miles. The bushes are starting to look a little perished after 13 years, but there's no free play in them, and they're still MOT-worthy.

After adjusting the tracking shortly after taking delivery (it was miles out from the factory), I've not needed to adjust it again, so nothing has moved - there's certainly been no bending during that time.

 

[Panda IIs]

No. No underside collisions.
One time I've hitted rock, and another three — just a lot of driving by non asphalt roads. Rough driving. Last time it bended, when I've strongly hitted breaks from 110km/h to 10km/h on very bumpy road (when I was going 110 it felt much less bumpy

They always bend backwards, until wheel touches chassis.

*I've showed bending way on the photo.

I suspect that you are not getting the best quality parts in your part of the world?

I purchased non-OEM wishbones that required replacement inside 2 years (worn ball joints) the OEM parts have now lasted 4+ years

 

[vexorg]

Have you considered something like a Bowler off road car?

 

[VelosiFed]

Almost certainly, and sticking with the factory 13" wheels helps.

Yes, I've put max wheels, like on Panda Cross (175/65R15).
But only they give max clearance.

I suspect that you are not getting the best quality parts in your part of the world?

I purchased non-OEM wishbones that required replacement inside 2 years (worn ball joints) the OEM parts have now lasted 4+ years

In local workshop they said me, that most expensive wishbones will differ only by ball joint and bushings quality, not by metal thickness, or hardness.

Have you considered something like a Bowler off road car?

Today I've first time googled what it is
Yes, they are fun.
But Panda is platinum middle of asphalt/fuel economy/off-road driving
Suzuki Jimny worse on highway, Škoda Yeti worse on off-road, Land Cruiser worse on fuel consmption, Duster worse on overall fun

strengthening could be a very bad idea if the forces are then transmitted elsewhere causing something else much more expensive to break or the arm to break rather than bend.

I will investigate this side

 

[jrkitching]

But Panda is platinum middle of asphalt/fuel economy/off-road driving

I'd agree, but I doubt it's engineered to go at 110km/hr on an unmade road.

 

[VelosiFed]

I'd agree, but I doubt it's engineered to go at 110km/hr on an unmade road.

It is strange. Because almost all other (asphalt) cars can do it. Including previous model Panda, with much stronger wishbones.

 

[FiatMatt94]

I heard from my MOT tester who is a Fiat/Alfa specialist the the earlier 319 Pandas the front wishbones were a known weak point, they were known for breaking as the metal used wasn't very good quality or strong, when they made a few changes to the 319 in 2017 which included better seats, changes to the steering wheel, & my car was the first post 2017 319 my MOT tester had come across & he stated that the front wishbones were a lot thicker than pre 2017 cars, along with the bushes on the rear dampers being changed as well

 

[VelosiFed]

I heard from my MOT tester who is a Fiat/Alfa specialist the the earlier 319 Pandas the front wishbones were a known weak point, they were known for breaking as the metal used wasn't very good quality or strong, when they made a few changes to the 319 in 2017 which included better seats, changes to the steering wheel, & my car was the first post 2017 319 my MOT tester had come across & he stated that the front wishbones were a lot thicker than pre 2017 cars, along with the bushes on the rear dampers being changed as well

So, do they has different part numbers?
Or just new non-OEM wishbones must be stronger anyway?
Maybe someone can measure thickness of metal for past 2017 wishbones?

I've searched a bit for such a problem for another cars, and found, that sometimes it really can be misengineered. And users fix it by welding.

 

[jrkitching]

So, do they has different part numbers?
Or just new non-OEM wishbones must be stronger anyway?
Maybe someone can measure thickness of metal for past 2017 wishbones?

What is for sure is the change to pressed steel arms on the 312 - the 169 has cast iron arms.

This is why they're bending.

Cast iron arms won't bend, but they will break if overstressed.

 

[VelosiFed]

What is for sure is the change to pressed steel arms on the 312 - the 169 has cast iron arms.

This is why they're bending.

Cast iron arms won't bend, but they will break if overstressed.

Ok, pressed steel is good.
But the geometry is awful.

Here is wishbone from small car Citroen C3 (my mother has that car, and she lives in country).
I clearly see, that they are much stronger, than Panda's.

*Sorry for my English, it is not native for me

 

[jrkitching]

Sorry for my English, it is not native for me

Tai geriau nei mano lietuviska!

 

[AAB1992]

So, do they has different part numbers?
Or just new non-OEM wishbones must be stronger anyway?
Maybe someone can measure thickness of metal for past 2017 wishbones?

I've searched a bit for such a problem for another cars, and found, that sometimes it really can be misengineered. And users fix it by welding.

They do have different part numbers

Wishbones:
N/S 52013960
O/S 52013959

Rear shocks 520763740

Front arms have uprated bushes and I’m sure the pressed metal is different.

Rear shocks have different bushes too which are uprated.

My car is 6 years old and has covered 110k and everything is still original. Granted the rubber bushes have deteriorated but are still serviceable. I’d say the rear shocks would need replacing in the next 10k

 

[portland_bill]

Whilst the OE parts were upgraded, it is likely that Fiat will now only supply the later, stronger ones. Aftermarket manufacturers will have taken an early example to copy, and may not have picked up on the upgrade. Aftermarket parts are therefore likely to be of the earlier, weaker design. If you know who the manufacturer is, a short email, asking whether theirs is to the later design, might prompt an upgrade, but it won't be quick, and not until existing stock is gone.
Try some later OE ones, and drive more gently on rough roads.