Technical Vibration on gear change - Panda 4x4 Multijet 106K

[Bonefish Blues]

I'm just, finally, starting to assemble the parts I need for this work.
I've got my oem numbers and am shopping around, which is proving worthwhile.
The single most expensive item is the dmf and at the moment best price is 230-odd, which is not completely terrible. My head has been turned by seeing what I believe is the same item popping up in my search, badged as fitment for a couple of vauxhalls. I know that the multijet 75bhp is installed in them. Is there any way to check up front if they will fit, or would it be a case of ordering up the oem and the vauxhall parts and comparing manually? It's worth a punt as the difference in price is significant.
Welcome advice, as always, thanks.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Drew a blank with alternatives, so stayed oem in the end, and picking the best suppliers I'm at exactly £500 for dmf, clutch, concentric slave, seal, bolts. A chunk of change, but it could have been worse. Just got to wait for it all to arrive now, then double-check it's what I need & get the car booked in for the work.
I'll also get the Man to do a gearbox oil change and a rear diff oil change whilst he's underneath. Anything else worth doing whilst we're at it?

 

[Panda IIs]

Drew a blank with alternatives, so stayed oem in the end, and picking the best suppliers I'm at exactly £500 for dmf, clutch, concentric slave, seal, bolts. A chunk of change, but it could have been worse. Just got to wait for it all to arrive now, then double-check it's what I need & get the car booked in for the work.
I'll also get the Man to do a gearbox oil change and a rear diff oil change whilst he's underneath. Anything else worth doing whilst we're at it?

You may be including it with "gearbox" but change the oil in the PTO box as well (drives the prop shaft to rear wheels) there's a pretty good YouTube on this (including much discussion about finding correct oil spec). @Herts Hillhopper has posted some good still shots to help with this too.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

You may be including it with "gearbox" but change the oil in the PTO box as well (drives the prop shaft to rear wheels) there's a pretty good YouTube on this (including much discussion about finding correct oil spec). @Herts Hillhopper has posted some good still shots to help with this too.

Thanks, assume this one?

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

It seems the TwinAir 4x4 (which is what's in that video) has a combined gearbox and transfer unit (that drives the propshaft to the rear) so only one drain and fill at the front of the car. But, the diesel has a separate little PTU (power transfer unit) which has its own drain and refill in addition to those on the gearbox , and uses a different fluid to either the gearbox or the rear diff (at the back of the car). I’ll find my earlier posts for you (by searching ‘this forum’ for 'PTU' and posted by me…)
Edit --
First, see here: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/manual-gearbox-oil-filler-drain-plug-locations.497039/post-4657568 the labels are on the gearbox, but the 'finned' unit the exhaust bends around is the PTU, you can see the drain plug clearly on the front of that.
Then, see here and follow the links from this and the subsequent posts to see where the filler is, and what the oil spec is -> https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/panda-cross-gearbox-ptu-fill-drain-location.501254/post-4687534

 

[Panda IIs]

It seems the TwinAir 4x4 (which is what's in that video) has a combined gearbox and transfer unit (that drives the propshaft to the rear) so only one drain and fill at the front of the car. But, the diesel has a separate little PTU (power transfer unit) which has its own drain and refill in addition to those on the gearbox , and uses a different fluid to either the gearbox or the rear diff (at the back of the car). I’ll find my earlier posts for you (by searching ‘this forum’ for 'PTU' and posted by me…)
Edit --
First, see here: https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/manual-gearbox-oil-filler-drain-plug-locations.497039/post-4657568 the labels are on the gearbox, but the 'finned' unit the exhaust bends around is the PTU, you can see the drain plug clearly on the front of that.
Then, see here and follow the links from this and the subsequent posts to see where the filler is, and what the oil spec is -> https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/panda-cross-gearbox-ptu-fill-drain-location.501254/post-4687534

@Herts Hillhopper I'm glad you cleared this up (for me) having recommended it I re-watched the video and thought where's the PTO gone (remembering your posts). @Bonefish Blues sorry if I have misled you! Mine's a TA and I'd been putting the PTO job off!!! So hadn't really taken much interest in the underside....

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Thanks both I'll take a look at the new links, but do I understand correctly that no fewer than three different fluids are required to refresh my transmission?

 

[Panda IIs]

Thanks both I'll take a look at the new links, but do I understand correctly that no fewer than three different fluids are required to refresh my transmission?

I haven't looked too closely at the specs; I think the reality is that they are all very similar and (like the TA engine oil) the Fiat stated/required grade evolves/changes too. I am, however, not suggesting you ignore the handbook recommendations!

I have a Volvo 940 that has various gearbox oil recommendations from your regular 75w-90 through ATF and, other (unobtainable) fluids...

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Thanks both I'll take a look at the new links, but do I understand correctly that no fewer than three different fluids are required to refresh my transmission?

Technically, yes. The PTU in particular demanded a gear oil with the ‘higher’ (?) — or is it just newer (?) — GL5 spec. Logically a ‘better’ oil than that specified should be fine in other places where a ‘less good’ is suggested. I don’t know enough to be clear on whether ‘gearbox oil’ and ‘differential oil’ are different: clearly they aren’t the same as engine oils — probably because gears have a ‘mashing’ effect (‘shearing’ is probably the correct term here?) rather than an engine where smooth surfaces rotate within bearings.

Check the the technical specs section of the owner handbook and there you’ll see the three different gearbox/diff oils listed.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I found the rear diff stuff that the chaps used on the video: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295111498377

PTU I'm thinking ing that I can use the same fluid as it also needs GL5 spec.

Gearbox, I read that GL4 and 5 have different properties, and that the gearbox needs GL4 because of its lower EP additives. Primer here:

The difference between GL-4 and GL-5 explained

When you are choosing a transmission or gear oil you might be wondering what GL-4 and GL-5 mean and what the differences are between these two classifications. Choosing the right classification is extremely important since they both have different properties and wrongful use could lead to...

www.rymax-lubricants.com

In terms of quantity can I check that the rear takes c550ml, the ptu c400ml, and the gearbox c2 litres.

Does that sound sensible?

As a double check I've dropped a note to a dealer which also sells on eBay.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

I found the rear diff stuff that the chaps used on the video: https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/295111498377

PTU I'm thinking ing that I can use the same fluid as it also needs GL5 spec.

Gearbox, I read that GL4 and 5 have different properties, and that the gearbox needs GL4 because of its lower EP additives. Primer here:

The difference between GL-4 and GL-5 explained

When you are choosing a transmission or gear oil you might be wondering what GL-4 and GL-5 mean and what the differences are between these two classifications. Choosing the right classification is extremely important since they both have different properties and wrongful use could lead to...

www.rymax-lubricants.com

In terms of quantity can I check that the rear takes c550ml, the ptu c400ml, and the gearbox c2 litres.

Does that sound sensible?

As a double check I've dropped a note to a dealer which also sells on eBay.

I think the capacities are listed in the owner handbook, but in grams rather than ml. I’m away at the mo, but 400ml sounds about right for the PTU. All three are ‘full till it dribbles out’ as the filler is on the side.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Update! I've had various conversations today and the upshot is that I have 2ltrs of the correct Petronas Tutela gearbox oil on order. I also have the rear diff oil on its way too (Grays of Warwick for both, helpful people). Their view on the PTU was that they as a garage never touch it, and they don't carry the correct spec oil for it either. They also advised against using the GL5 rear diff oil, but I'm not sure I really got a reason clear on that, more 'we don't so why would you', perhaps.

So 2 out of 3, but I'm still wondering about the PTU and whether I could use the Tutela Transmission Cross 75W-85 in it - after all the spec says 75-85 GL5 or better, and this is it. It also costs about the same as a bucket of unicorn tears, so keen to use the whole litre.

All my parts are here, so I can finally get it booked in and sort the vibrations, other than the tremors in my wallet...

 

[Bonefish Blues]

And by way of another update, I dropped Westway Lubricants a line yesterday also, seeking their advice.

They've just come back saying their 75/85 will cover it all as it meets each of the specs.

75w85 Gear / Transfer Case / Differential Oil 1 Litre Fully Synthetic 1L

I'm resolved - the GL4 for the gearbox, and the GL5 for rear diff & PTU.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Work all done. Whilst I sourced the OE parts carefully for lowest price, the labour element turned out pretty eye-watering (their rate is sensible, not extravagant, and they didn't charge for it all) due to various problems with seized bolts, driveshafts stuck in, and other stuff I've already forgotten. Car is transformed though, and drives very nicely, and as we're keeping it for the long haul, a pain but not really too much of an issue since the car was utra cheap to start with.

Now the other stuff is done, the engine feels way smoother, too - I was blaming it for noises not of its own making, clearly!

 

[Bonefish Blues]

I just totted up the numbers and my end-to-end change of clutch, dmf, concentric slave, seal, fluids x3 with all sorts of issues with things seizing, having to be cut etc was just over £1300.
Whilst the 'headline' number for clutch & dmf was slightly lower at one Fiat Specialist, the scope of my work, and the extra parts, plus fluids and all the problems of removal/change means that whilst I was hoping to be a couple of hundred lower, maybe a bit less even, I think I got great value at my local garage - which is nice as he does all our work.