General TwinAir 40k?

[Freewheel]

Hello

I wonder if anyone here can offer some advice?

I am looking at various Pandas, mostly Cross but also 4x4 - I’m seeing that a lot of them seem to have about 40,000 miles on them and wondered if there was a common reason for this. Is this the average mileage before they start to have expensive problems, or is to do with service intervals or popular replacement schedules - or just coincidence? I know prices are stupid right now but low mileage examples are nearly at new car prices…

Any help appreciated.

 

[Panda IIs]

Hello

I wonder if anyone here can offer some advice?

I am looking at various Pandas, mostly Cross but also 4x4 - I’m seeing that a lot of them seem to have about 40,000 miles on them and wondered if there was a common reason for this. Is this the average mileage before they start to have expensive problems, or is to do with service intervals or popular replacement schedules - or just coincidence? I know prices are stupid right now but low mileage examples are nearly at new car prices…

Any help appreciated.

I'd expect that they are three or four years old and coming off lease agreements or folk changing since MOT due. My experience (with a 4x4 TA '63 plate) with a 4 year old purchase and 45k miles was that it needed a new Uniair module and DMF clutch at 50k. I bought the car from a main dealer but with no maintenance history, with a £1k discount off the book price to reflect this (this was before the recent 2nd hand price craziness). I was anticipating issues since oil changes appear to be critical with the TA (Uniair module) both grade and frequency of change being important - it didn't disappoint! However, the car has now done 80k miles without any further significant issues and is a pleasure to drive and proved a pretty good learner car for my teenage daughter.

It has had a new battery and the Stop Start has worked maybe twice for short periods - which doesn't bother at all.

 

[Freewheel]

I'd expect that they are three or four years old and coming off lease agreements or folk changing since MOT due. My experience (with a 4x4 TA '63 plate) with a 4 year old purchase and 45k miles was that it needed a new Uniair module and DMF clutch at 50k. I bought the car from a main dealer but with no maintenance history, with a £1k discount off the book price to reflect this (this was before the recent 2nd hand price craziness). I was anticipating issues since oil changes appear to be critical with the TA (Uniair module) both grade and frequency of change being important - it didn't disappoint! However, the car has now done 80k miles without any further significant issues and is a pleasure to drive and proved a pretty good learner car for my teenage daughter.

It has had a new battery and the Stop Start has worked maybe twice for short periods - which doesn't bother at all.

Thanks for your reply! So likely just lease schedules etc.

Are the Uniair module and DMF clutch expensive components/jobs? Not that I expect to have exactly the same issue but would be good to know…

 

[Panda IIs]

Thanks for your reply! So likely just lease schedules etc.

Are the Uniair module and DMF clutch expensive components/jobs? Not that I expect to have exactly the same issue but would be good to know…

No problem! Lease schedules and "my car is three years old syndrome" would be my best guess, plus the TA is an acquired taste - a good one in my opinion. Uniair (again, in my opinion) was a premature failure and managed to extract 10% discount from FIAT Customer service on the parts price. The part was fitted by a local Tech and was in the order of £850 with labour if I recall correctly. Clutch could fail any time and depends on previous driver's habits and town or motorway type driving (also did car have tow bar). Again with parts and non Fiat dealer but specialist Technician I think £550. Keep in mind both these events were probably 4 years ago now.

One other thing that has failed on mine is the Blue & Me coms module which is more an annoyance (no bluetooth mainly) and expensive to replace or repair (£450 new FIAT part but recon is a possibility). BUT depending on the age of car you have been looking at this may likely have been superseded by the next version (name escapes me) which is a bit more robust I understand. Symptom is flashing odometer and no phone connectivity. I got round the issue on mine by fitting an earlier version to get the USB port connectivity but does not give Bluetooth (not bothered since personally I don't need or want to be on the phone when driving).

Also there is another thread on here suggesting 4x4 versions are no longer available and may not reappear, which may add perceived value to "nearly new" second handers. You may find it worth checking the 500 TA threads on this forum for any reoccurring issues, also Jamie Porter at FIAT/ALFA Workshop in Royston is a great resource - remember TA is used across the range (Fiat/Alfa).

 

[Graham GB]

Our 2012 Twinair now has nearly 90K & given no trouble, just regular service items, in the last year the Blue & Me has packed in & the Air-Con is rubbish, we were going to sell it, but when we started testing looking at other cars, we decided to keep it(there's a thread on here about it), great car & of course a bit quirky, oh & don't expect to achieve any of the ridiculous fuel consumption claims, ours averages mid 40's, but that is with nearly all local short journey use,we have only managed just about 50mpg on a tank full a couple of times & we're not racing drivers.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Cars of a certain age tend to have a similar milage. If the car has been maintained properly it should not be any more likely to exoire than anything belse. Fiat are very well versed in two cylinder engines! I have had 2 twinair cars and feel the engine is unstressed and robust, it never feels as if its working very ahrd evein if it is. Look for a good history of service and that the correct oil has been used as this is used to operate the valves as well as lubricate the bearings this is important. CHeck that the brakes - rears particularly look in good condition. Rear brakes are expensive to renew. Try as I do I cannot find any other car I would prefer to have. THe only rider is the pada is a small car and not built to accomodaye family sized loads of luggage without a rood rack! Fuel consumption seems to vary from car to car so try more than one and make your best assessment.
We have 3 Pandas in the fleet and I have never regretted this as they seem above averagely reliablem and have good paintwork. The 4x4 is magic and while I have no major needs for it, its reassuring to know it will not get stuck anywhere unless the world has ended! Its taken a long whilem for me to master economy as its an odd engine this twinair, but mine is delivering between 43 and 60mpg which for a nippy 85hp car is decent enough. Budget on 40mpg consumption and with experience you should improve on tis quite a bit.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

One thing that may be triggering a lot of sales around that age and mileage is 'apparent' evidence of things 'starting to go wrong'... especially the appearance of various warning lights and suggestions that the 4x4 system may not be working. These errors, perceived as expensive things to fix maybe enough to make folks think 'time to sell'. But actually all that is wrong is the battery is tired. With so many electronic sensors (in any modern car), any deterioration of the battery shows up more as error codes than poor starting. A new battery is £100 and cures these 'faults'.

A car at 40,000 miles is 'young' by modern standards... with a declared service/oil change interval of 18000 miles, its only had two services in its life by then (although many agree a little more often might be a good thing). And maybe only one MOT too? the brake pads are maybe only 2/3rds warn at that mileage, but probably the tyres are due to be replaced. The bodyshell is fully galvanised and warranted rust proof for at least 8 years. Although some of the suspension/subframe parts do go rusty if neglected (not hosed down after winter to clean salt away) they will still be in good health. As Panda IIs mentioned, there seems to be a growing culture of 'my cars three years old -- it must need replacing'. Not sure why we've ended up like that (a bit like needing to change a phone every couple of years...) when there's actually plenty of life in the thing yet. Just so long as a TwinAir has a history of oil changes (and ideally receipts showing the right type of oil was used -- they are a bit fussy), 40k really should be seen as a detraction. In fact, many here would say its only just been 'run in' at that mileage!

 

[chris3234]

Unless it's been nearly all motorway miles the pads will be far more then 2/3 worn at 40k
They likely be at the wear limit or not far from it


Discs should be fine for another set of pads if not too rusty

 

[The Panda Nut]

I cleaned my discs a couple of days ago after 13K and 3 years. Basicaly fine. The backs of the discs were just begining to rust at the edges so I removed the calipers and got the wire brush on my drill and cleaned them off thoroughly and applied copper protective spray where brush had scratched the centre. Front pads maybe down 1.5mm and discs worn very slightly more on one side as the brakes were not correcly assembled at the factory and had the sealing caps missing off the slide pins on one side which were consequently bone dry. So much for two services and checks! Rear disc wear was inconsequential and pads looked like still 95% left. Front discs especially on the O/s needed more attention but will be corrected this week as Fiat are going to be invited to fit new discs and calipers due to negligent build. Im sure these plugs "are part of the caliper assembly sir" so I shall jsut tell them I want it put right and insist in a caliper and discs. Might feel less aggressive if they hadnt faudulently advertised the car at the time of sale, but thats now their problem to deal with. While there I cleaned all the visible bolts on roll bar, suspension struts and sub frame along with bleed nipples hose connections and both brake bacl plates and arch liners so hopefully proofed for a year or two. Back plate bolts were very rusty so were removed and copper greased. Everything still basically like new apart from a layer of dust. I bought a 90 bed nozzle for my power washer for underside cleaning and think its one of my best ever purchases makes a difficult job easy and cleans the sills like magic. Highlky recommended if B expensive for what it is. I took the car up our lane and tried the brakes hard, and it was trying to tear up the tarmac so hopefully all good except the handbrake now seems slack so I may need to whip the pads out agin and manually adjust the automatic adjusters.

 

[Freewheel]

Thank you all so much for these replies, very informative and reassuring! Now I just have to find one within reasonable traveling distance… I am a ditherer but I will let you know what I get eventually.