Technical Those pesky wheel locating pins

[chris3234]

Just changed the front discs and pads on my 500 when fairly well bolt's holding the frames the the disc/hub were hard to remove took a fair bit of work with a breaker bar before the moved


Only problem was one of the two locator pins in each side was sized solid strangely 1 each side came off easily
Ended up snapping them clean in two so cut them flush to the disc with an angle grinder and refitted the new discs with just the one good pin

Anyone else had problems with them being sized,?

 

[jrkitching]

One of the first things I do when I get a new car is to remove any bolts I'm likely to want to remove in the future, grease them, and put them back. Be aware you'll need a lower torque setting for greased bolts, or you risk overtightening - in the absence of better information, I generally use about 2/3 of the published torque setting figure.

I've never had a bolt tightened in this way come loose in service, and never had a problem subsequently removing them, often many years later.

The disc/wheel locating studs should be done up to 'finger tight plus a pinch'; they're only there to locate the wheel and all the clamping force is provided by the wheel bolts. Overtightening just makes removing them harder, and increases the likelihood of them snapping off.

They're one of the Fiat features I do like; it makes changing a wheel much easier, particularly if you're doing it at the roadside on a cold, wet night. I remember my Renault 5 (which has bolts, but no locating pins) being a complete sod when replacing a wheel as the darned thing would fall straight off the hub until you'd got the first bolt in.

 

[chris3234]

I never installed them and honestly i think they we're the original discs given how it's only done 50k miles so that's been there for 8+ years not surprising they had sized solid
Not even some molegrips would touch them after removing the disc
Just ended up deforming the remaining part of the stud

 

[varesecrazy]

I never installed them and honestly i think they we're the original discs given how it's only done 50k miles so that's been there for 8+ years not surprising they had sized solid
Not even some molegrips would touch them after removing the disc
Just ended up deforming the remaining part of the stud

I don't recall ever breaking any..

but I'm in the habit of giving them a few sharp taps - "end-on" with a hammer to attempt to shake things loose .. before attempting to twist them free.

I'm also likely to have a tub full of "spares" occasionally robbed from scrapyards..saves waiting a week to put the car back together..

 

[chris3234]

Mine wouldn't move at all even tried with a hammer and half a can of release spray
Didn't move until the point the broke just past the end of the disc around the point the nut part is
Just left the remainder in the wheel hub sat in the cutout of the new disc
Possible they may have been removed at some point and reinstalled with an impact gun

 

[Texas149]

+1 on some numbskull using an impact wrench, prob the same sort of person who would use it doing up a sump plug!!! They should only be given impact wrenches with the 'Undo' gear with the forward or 'do-up' setting removed!!! KwikRip or Halfrauds springs to mind.

Paul m.

 

[Pathaleon]

Had the same problem a few weeks ago, one came out no trouble and the other wasn't moving at all. Unfortunately didnt have an angle grinder to hand so I had to work around the disc. (Changing driveshaft not discs lol)

 

[jrkitching]

Had the same problem a few weeks ago, one came out no trouble and the other wasn't moving at all. Unfortunately didnt have an angle grinder to hand so I had to work around the disc. (Changing driveshaft not discs lol)

You can make a good releasing solvent by mixing equal parts of acetone and automatic transmission fluid; it is significantly superior to WD40 in this regard. Just be extra careful not to get any on rubber, plastics, paintwork or yourself.

 

[John202020]

I've got ethyle aceatate would that work? Or ipa?

 

[varesecrazy]

You can make a good releasing solvent by mixing equal parts of acetone and ATF
Just be extra careful not to get any on rubber, plastics, paintwork or yourself.

OR sources of ignition..

 

[chris3234]

+1 on some numbskull using an impact wrench, prob the same sort of person who would use it doing up a sump plug!!! They should only be given impact wrenches with the 'Undo' gear with the forward or 'do-up' setting removed!!! KwikRip or Halfrauds springs to mind.

Paul m.

. things like suspension mountings bolt's are the few things I think people should use impact guns to tighten
Well unless it a quick spin with one to get it 80 % then final tighten by hand/torque wrench depending on the part

 

[jrkitching]

I've got ethyle aceatate would that work? Or ipa?

Quick bit of chemistry; ethyl acetate is essentially nonpolar so is miscible with oils but not water; ipa is polar so is miscible with water but not oils.

Acetone exhibits both polar and nonpolar properties and is miscible with both; it has a polar C=O bond which can form dipoles with the hydrogen bonds in water, and two methyl groups which interact through dispersion forces with oil. So it can both penetrate wet joints and carry oil to the requisite surfaces.

I'd say ethyl acetate might work, but won't be as effective as acetone; mixing IPA & ATF will likely just result in a mess.

I remember reading some test results which showed an acetone/ATF mix outperforming all of the proprietary fluids in removing rusted fastenings.

If you're struggling to find acetone, try a ship's chandlery; most of them keep it in stock. It's not as readily obtainable as it used to be, largely due to its potential use by terrorists as a precursor in the manufacture of homemade high explosives.

The closely related MEK might make an acceptable alternative to acetone.

Both are HIGHLY flammable.

 

[John202020]

Quick bit of chemistry; ethyl acetate is essentially nonpolar so is miscible with oils but not water; ipa is polar so is miscible with water but not oils.

Acetone exhibits both polar and nonpolar properties and is miscible with both; it has a polar C=O bond which can form dipoles with the hydrogen bonds in water, and two methyl groups which interact through dispersion forces with oil. So it can both penetrate wet joints and carry oil to the requisite surfaces.

I'd say ethyl acetate might work, but won't be as effective as acetone; mixing IPA & ATF will likely just result in a mess.

I remember reading some test results which showed an acetone/ATF mix outperforming all of the proprietary fluids in removing rusted fastenings.

If you're struggling to find acetone, try a ship's chandlery; most of them keep it in stock. It's not as readily obtainable as it used to be, largely due to its potential use by terrorists as a precursor in the manufacture of homemade high explosives.

The closely related MEK might make an acceptable alternative to acetone.

Both are HIGHLY flammable.

Mek and acetone are frighteningly easily available on ebay £8 L appro5

 

[portland_bill]

There I was thinking ipa was some sort of beer.
I'll stick with PlusGas and single-hex sockets for these pins. But thanks for the chemistry lesson.

 

[BigKev]

Many years ago (1969 - 1979) I was a lithographic printer and we used MEK (methyl ethyl keytone) in vast quantities to clean and restore rubber litho transfer blankets. Shortly after I had left the trade, MEK was banned from the industry and classified as a dangerous and possibly carcinogenic substance.
Anyone using MEK, acetone, benzine or toluene should take great care not to allow these substances to contact the skin (especially the nail/cuticle) or indeed breathe the vapour. Absorption via the nail/cuticle areas could lead to acute blood disorders and possible bone-marrow cancer.

Kev.

 

[chris3234]

Wouldn't mind a impact for removing nuts
But bit costly for something I would rarley use

 

[jrkitching]

Anyone using MEK, acetone, benzine or toluene should take great care not to allow these substances to contact the skin (especially the nail/cuticle) or indeed breathe the vapour. Absorption via the nail/cuticle areas could lead to acute blood disorders and possible bone-marrow cancer.

:yeahthat:

Some are more dangerous than others; benzene is probably the worst. Unleaded petrol contains a significant amount of benzene (up to 1% IIRC) and you should definitely avoid getting any on your skin when fuelling, or breathing in any expelled fumes.

Many women are at risk as a result of long term exposure to acetone in the nail/cuticle areas; it is the primary ingredient in many types of nail varnish remover.

Mek and acetone are frighteningly easily available on ebay

Well they both also have important legitimate uses and it would be a great inconvenience to many folks with DIY persuasions if their sale were to be banned. As with strong acids, I do believe there is merit in applying similar restrictions to their sale as are currently applied to knives and other similar objects which serve a useful purpose but can also be used as offensive weapons. Acetone is an extremely useful solvent and cleaning agent, but mixed with the right chemicals, it will remove not only the offending rusted fastener, but also much of the surrounding neighbourhood.

 

[portland_bill]

Wouldn't mind a impact for removing nuts
But bit costly for something I would rarley use

An impact driver does not have to be air or electric. There are manual ones, strike them with a hammer. Apply pressure in the direction you wish to turn the nut, bolt or screw, hold tight and hit it. I've had a Snap-on one for about 40 years, but you don't need to spend that sort of money.
http://www.halfords.com/workshop-tools/tools/hand-tools/halfords-advanced--impact-driver-bits
https://www.axminster.co.uk/teng-15-piece-impact-driver-set-136760
https://www.zoro.co.uk/shop/hand-to...yzndfcm2JFQ0xDtPA3L3qCuBEU3OYO8xoCoM0QAvD_BwE

 

[chris3234]

Not much help for removing bolt's thou rather then screws

 

[portland_bill]

Yes it is. You take the screw adaptor off, and use the square drive on an impact socket.