Technical The one and only Dualogic repair thread

[jrkitching]

Ok, so we're had a discussion thread about dualogic issues for a few years now, and it's basically 41 pages of doom and gloom, offering little hope to new folks who come here looking for answers.

So I'm starting this one to try to redress the balance.

There are a few garages out there claiming to be able to repair these transmissions at reasonable cost, and there are several sites on the internet offering replacement actuator seal kits. But there's little technical information as to how to go about dismanting, cleaning and reassembling the various transmission components.

So this thread is for the success stories; folks who've either successfully repaired a failing dualogic transmission, or have useful information about procedures or sources of parts.

Let's see if we can use the collective wisdom of the community to come up with a better solution than 'just sell it and buy something else'.

Please don't use this thread to report or ask about problems with dualogics; use the other thread instead.

 

[jrkitching]

Great news - we have our first success story!

Read this post and this post.

 

[gay stereo]

I have solved the problem of dropping from 5th to N myself, it took long time so I'll share what I know.
Off course, first make sure that you have the correct oil level and the pump builds pressure as it should. Then It's a fairly easy fix !
The main culprit, withe other things being fully operational, is so called "stop" solenoid. It changes the movement of gear selector shaft between 1-2 , 3-4 and R-N planes.
View attachment 418031
After you unscrew it, there is a spring loaded nipple which, when activated, protrudes into the barrel behind it to generally block the internal plane seletion barrel :
View attachment 418032
The problem is that the internal mechanism is oiled and greased, over time gunk gets under the nipple and further into the solenoid, causing it to stick. The spring is not strong enough to push back the solenoid shaft quickly, this is why sometimes people cannot engage any gear for a couple of minutes after dropping to N -it needs time. The lower the outside temp, the more likely this can happen - greasy gunk being thicker.

option 1 - quick fix - It should be possible to reach and unscrew the solenoid - 500 offers less space than my Lancia Musa , but it should be possible after removin battery holder plate. Put some foil beneath so as not to drop screws, spring and nipple. Put the car in N first. Screws are phillips , there is no pressure in this part of robot. Tighten back with care.
Clean the solenoid by slowly spraying something like WD40, then brake cleaner, rubbing alcohol etc over the little shaft, let them drop sink inside. Do it many times in turns until the shaft moves fairly freely. The liquids will drain through plug assembly. Apply brake cleaner as final, give time it to evaporate, you can even heat it up to make sure it's dry inside. At first, you might need to use a 9v battery with two cables to pop the shaft back out.Don't worry about polarity. New solenoid is pricey and there is no need to change it if it works.
While solenoid is out, also clean the nipple socket in the barrel from any old grease to prevent it from sticking.

View attachment 418033
View attachment 418034

Option 2 : Full, long term fix is to take the robot out and clean the whole "barrel" inside and then re-grease it with high quality, wide-temperature-graded synthetic grease . You can see this being done here:

screenshot:
View attachment 418035

Option 2 best made by a mechanic, unless you really know what you are doing, followed by factory calibration in MES

Of course, there might be some other underlying issues. Then it needs to be properly diagnosed and possibly overhauled.Find a mechanic whoe deals with dualogic.
Hope that Helps.

I have actually done a complete overhaul of the robot myself, it is quite a durable and bulletproof device with just a few soft-spots. It requires all components to work properly, with very little margin for error and then it will serve years on.

 

[gay stereo]

@ET Alien or ANYONE does the nipple + spring need re-lubricating before re-assembly?
Im guessing no, because the internal mechanism is oiled and greased. But I am amateur so am unsure.
Thanks

 

[ET Alien]

@ET Alien or ANYONE does the nipple + spring need re-lubricating before re-assembly?
Im guessing no, because the internal mechanism is oiled and greased. But I am amateur so am unsure.
Thanks

no need for that, the cleaner the better. Those will gather some grease film from the mechanism chamber over time anyway.

 

[gay stereo]

no need for that, the cleaner the better. Those will gather some grease film from the mechanism chamber over time anyway.

Thanks. Hey did this fully resolve your issue, or did it come back to a degree?

 

[jrkitching]

Keep the posts coming. We need to make this thread bigger so that we can start offering folks some answers, and some hope.

It'd be great if someone could buy a seal kit, rebuild an actuator and accumulator, and post what they'd found.

 

[gay stereo]

Thanks. Hey did this fully resolve your issue, or did it come back to a degree?

Unfortunately it did not solve the issue, I really thought the angels were coming down when I saw your post, but not this time around. I went on to test the accumulator which is still holding its pressure very well. The hunt continues!

 

[Nuforce]

Hi all,

My wife's 500 2014 dualogic occasionally slips into neutral when driving. I was planning on leaving tye car with a nearby Fiat indy to sort.

Out of interest what is the usual reason for this and what is the procedure to fix?

I was going to ask them to flush and replace the actuator oil and swap out the solenoid. Hopefully that should sort it??

 

[jrkitching]

My wife's 500 2014 dualogic occasionally slips into neutral when driving.

The first sign that all is not quite as it should be.

As you will see from the rest of this thread, quite common at this sort of age.

I was planning on leaving the car with a nearby Fiat indy to sort.

This is a reasonable plan. A Fiat specialist with the car in front of them should be able to come up with a more accurate diagnosis of the problem than someone sitting at a keyboard without sight of the car.

I was going to ask them to flush and replace the actuator oil and swap out the solenoid.

If you're taking it to a specialist, I'd suggest waiting to see what they have to say before asking them to carry out any specific procedures. If they think that's worth doing, I'd expect them to advise you accordingly.

Hopefully that should sort it??

I'd wait and see what the specialist has to say, and follow their advice.

 

[Nuforce]

I've just been for a test drive and I can easily replicate the issue. If I'm in say 4th and try and kick down, everything is ok. If I try and kick down in 5th it immediately flashes red on the cluster and goes into neutral. Did it twice in 10min on the empty roads around my village.

I also want them to check all the earth connections to and from the robot assembly too.

At least I've sorted the engine limp mode issues, just need to sort the transmission limp issue.

I should have just bought her a friggin Renault Zoe they are the same price!

 

[gay stereo]

I have solved all the dualogic issues as mentioned above, by simply installing a NEW BATTERY!!
I had 6+ months of issues with delayed engagement, gear slippage, randomly going into neutral etc
I will post a more in depth post, when I have time.
Until then, even if your battery tests good health/sufficient voltage, I recommend trying a brand-new battery.
Absolutely MIRACULOUS!!!

 

[rameses3rd]

I have solved all the dualogic issues as mentioned above, by simply installing a NEW BATTERY!!
I had 6+ months of issues with delayed engagement, gear slippage, randomly going into neutral etc
I will post a more in depth post, when I have time.
Until then, even if your battery tests good health/sufficient voltage, I recommend trying a brand-new battery.
Absolutely MIRACULOUS!!!

Hi @gay stereo did your solution carry on working. Interested to know as a friend of mine is having similar issues with her car not engaging from neutral.

 

[varesecrazy]

A new battery is a cost-effective thing to try early on

Nobody on this thread has mentioned Checking Brake Light Function

The G. Box system uses the brake switch as sensor

 

[rameses3rd]

A new battery is a cost-effective thing to try early on

Nobody on this thread has mentioned Checking Brake Light Function

The G. Box system uses the brake switch as sensor

Thanks, will have a look at that as well

 

[The Panda Nut]

Ok, so we're had a discussion thread about dualogic issues for a few years now, and it's basically 41 pages of doom and gloom, offering little hope to new folks who come here looking for answers.

So I'm starting this one to try to redress the balance.

There are a few garages out there claiming to be able to repair these transmissions at reasonable cost, and there are several sites on the internet offering replacement actuator seal kits. But there's little technical information as to how to go about dismanting, cleaning and reassembling the various transmission components.

So this thread is for the success stories; folks who've either successfully repaired a failing dualogic transmission, or have useful information about procedures or sources of parts.

Let's see if we can use the collective wisdom of the community to come up with a better solution than 'just sell it and buy something else'.

Please don't use this thread to report or ask about problems with dualogics; use the other thread instead.

Wheeler dealers used a specialiost to recondition a selespeed box and the cost was sensible, around £750 if memory serves. Its clearly possible but requires the correct tes equipment to ensure all is as it should be. I really applaud the sentiment of this thread. The TA and Uni air need something similar,

 

[The Panda Nut]

The first sign that all is not quite as it should be.

As you will see from the rest of this thread, quite common at this sort of age.

This is a reasonable plan. A Fiat specialist with the car in front of them should be able to come up with a more accurate diagnosis of the problem than someone sitting at a keyboard without sight of the car.

If you're taking it to a specialist, I'd suggest waiting to see what they have to say before asking them to carry out any specific procedures. If they think that's worth doing, I'd expect them to advise you accordingly.

I'd wait and see what the specialist has to say, and follow their advice.

I think i would be good to offer any specialist that can repair these things free or subsidised advertising on the forum, ditto anyone who can repair Uni / TA units what does the powers of the forum think?

 

[Nuforce]

My wife reports zero issues with her dualogic since the replacement, even from stone cold.

 

[jrkitching]

Just a reminder that this thread is for posting known solutions, or garages which offer a specific repair service for these transmissions. If you have a problem with your dualogic and need help, please post in this thread

 

[1900A]

Hi guys & gals,
I have problems with my dualogic BUT I'm NOT posting my problems here. I found on the net, some Fiat diagnostic info. I guess the true experts out there are all across this stuff but for those of us trying to go it semi-alone, this may be useful? It provides instructions on removal & replacement of the selespeed hydraulic unit, also a troubleshooting table & a swath of test & calibration procedures. I trust this info is pretty-much universal for all selespeed using vehicles, so should be broadly indicative for 500's, Puntos etc, etc? Hope the link is useful to some of us!
Fiat service manual update on Selespeed.