Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[sem973]

Moderators Note:

I've started this thread to put all the currently active dualogic failure posts into one place.

The story begins here...

Hi All

Newbie here!....

I purchased my Fiat 500 dualogic new in 2010.....roll forward nearly 5 yrs & apart from a couple of minor niggles I find myself with the prospect of a new gearbox needed

Over the past month my car had developed the tendamcy to hate changing into reverse, flinging itself into neutral whenever it felt like, including a terrifying incident at speed when suddenly braking Driving in auto or manual mode did not seem to make a difference...

Off it went to dealer who after a few days of diagnostics & road tests cleared the ECU memory & other stuff (apologies as I am no means converse in the ways of cars!) ......fast forward & after 2 days it all started happening again...

Back to dealers & now they've stated it needs a new gearbox!!.....at the cost of.........£1300!!!

They suggested I rang Fiat Customer Care which I did today & they have opened a "complaint case" for which I have a ref number & one of their team will contact me in a couple of days....

Is there anything else I can do!?!....

Ps.....car has only 22,000 on clock & FSH

Many thanks for reading!

Sarah

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Dualogic gearbox nightmare......

Hello and welcome to the forum :wave:.

Sorry it's in such unfortunate circumstances.

I suspect it's the selespeed unit that your dealer is looking to replace, not the complete gearbox - that would likely be more expensive still at main dealer prices.

You're not the first to have experienced this issue, and sadly I doubt you'll be the last - though I'm surprised it's completely unrepairable at such a low mileage. A chap named Ahmett may be along in a minute; he's had one of these replaced recently after years of problems and many attempts (with varying degrees of success) at repair.

You might be able to get your existing selespeed unit fixed, though you'll need to go to an independent Fiat/Alfa specialist for this - Fiat main dealers will likely only replace it complete. If you can get it repaired/patched up at reasonable cost, my advice would be to do so and then, er, hmm, sell the car as soon as possible.

You'll get a good price for a one lady owner low mileage 500, and IMO you'd do better to take the money now & put it towards something else than keep it into middle age. Again just my opinion, but the 500 has too many niggly faults, praticularly in dualogic form, to make it a good long term keeper for someone not well versed in the ways of cars and handy with the tools and spanners.

But I'm biased tonight; mine (at much the same age as yours, not a lot more mileage, and not so much serviced well as pampered to within an inch of its life) has just fallen victim to one of the well-known 500 problems & my display now looks more like a disco than a dashboard.

Fortunately I got it home and I think I know what's going on - I'll look at it properly once I've calmed down and post about it in the appropriate place.

 

[ahmett]

Re: Dualogic gearbox nightmare......

Hi All

Newbie here!....

I purchased my Fiat 500 dualogic new in 2010.....roll forward nearly 5 yrs & apart from a couple of minor niggles I find myself with the prospect of a new gearbox needed

Over the past month my car had developed the tendamcy to hate changing into reverse, flinging itself into neutral whenever it felt like, including a terrifying incident at speed when suddenly braking Driving in auto or manual mode did not seem to make a difference...

Off it went to dealer who after a few days of diagnostics & road tests cleared the ECU memory & other stuff (apologies as I am no means converse in the ways of cars!) ......fast forward & after 2 days it all started happening again...

Back to dealers & now they've stated it needs a new gearbox!!.....at the cost of.........£1300!!!

They suggested I rang Fiat Customer Care which I did today & they have opened a "complaint case" for which I have a ref number & one of their team will contact me in a couple of days....

Is there anything else I can do!?!....

Ps.....car has only 22,000 on clock & FSH

Many thanks for reading!

Sarah

yes basically the same as me. you need the whole unit replaced. I paid 1270 euros to fix it with a 10% contrinution from fiat. so your best course of action is to pester fiat, saying you serviced it regularly, this is more than a joke, and get a nice discount/contribution from fiat.
(i only got 10% because apparently i hit the rev limiter about 50 times (i dont get why that is a problem but typical fiat blaming the customer as usual, and me servicing the car out of the dealer network as much as i could = )) )

i dont recommend only fixing pieces of the unit as i did that and had several years of misery. the best thing to do is change the whole thing, even if its crazy expensive. since i changed the whole unit i have not had any problems.

regarding jrkitching's advise of selling the car, if i were you i would get it replaced and drive it for a good year before then deciding what to do. once you fix the part you have a 70,000 mile, 1 year fiat main dealer warranty on the part should anything go wrong. at least you have a year before you need to get rid of it due to life being riskier after the warranty period is over.

the dualogic is simply an outdated operating system that is much more complicated than the manual system and can fail catastrophically with little hope of fixing it except replacing the whole system.

 

[zanes]

Re: Dualogic gearbox nightmare......

Does anyone offer reconditioned units on an exchange basis as another option?

 

[djay5759]

Hi Fiat family, this is my very first topic to start. I'm from Melbourne, Australia. I bought my 500c 3 months ago (used) at 50,000 kms mileage.

The Duologic transmission started playing up, won't take my gears n stay in neutral. Guess what! Gears stopped responding on my birthday (yesterday) on the most busiest street of Melbourne

So I did take it to the Fiat dealer n this is what they send me in an email
.........................................
Following is the information from Zagame Automotive Group, Richmond VIC 3121 Australia (Fiat Dealer)

"We checked and investigated to find the gear selector actuator failed and leaked out lost pressure etc.
To remove and replace the gear selector actuator is $5990.00 supplied and fitted.

Please note the part is already at trade price."
.........................................

I'm not sure if the dealer is telling me the truth.

Ok so it's a BLOODY EXPENSIVE PART!!!! it's like half of what I paid for this car.

I love my car more than anything (except for my MacBook).

Here in Australian there are not much fiat users hence its very very very difficult to find someone like a local mechanic to fix this.

Guys I need HELP!!!! your FIAT BROTHER from AUSTRALIA needs HELP!

I have seen some other members having similar problems but I didn't quite understand the solution to it.

Please provide me with some kind of solution where I don't have to spend AU $6000.

Any response are appreciated.

Thanks a ton in advance.
Love from Australia.

 

[ahmett]

Re: Fiat 500c 1.4 petrol Duologic Transmission Failure - Australia

Hi Fiat family, this is my very first topic to start. I'm from Melbourne, Australia. I bought my 500c 3 months ago (used) at 50,000 kms mileage.

The Duologic transmission started playing up, won't take my gears n stay in neutral. Guess what! Gears stopped responding on my birthday (yesterday) on the most busiest street of Melbourne

So I did take it to the Fiat dealer n this is what they send me in an email
.........................................
Following is the information from Zagame Automotive Group, Richmond VIC 3121 Australia (Fiat Dealer)

"We checked and investigated to find the gear selector actuator failed and leaked out lost pressure etc.
To remove and replace the gear selector actuator is $5990.00 supplied and fitted.

Please note the part is already at trade price."
.........................................

I'm not sure if the dealer is telling me the truth.

Ok so it's a BLOODY EXPENSIVE PART!!!! it's like half of what I paid for this car.

I love my car more than anything (except for my MacBook).

Here in Australian there are not much fiat users hence its very very very difficult to find someone like a local mechanic to fix this.

Guys I need HELP!!!! your FIAT BROTHER from AUSTRALIA needs HELP!

I have seen some other members having similar problems but I didn't quite understand the solution to it.

Please provide me with some kind of solution where I don't have to spend AU $6000.

Any response are appreciated.

Thanks a ton in advance.
Love from Australia.

OUCH!!! IS THAT SOME KIND OF JOKE!

Call Fiat CS immediately and report that kind of extortion. Then go to the Australian Press and name and shame everyone invovled.


I paid 1200 Euros to get exactly the same thing fixed.
So call Fiat CS and let us know what comes out of it.
Failing that, you may have to order the part yourself from UK. But lets call that plan B.

 

[djay5759]

Re: Fiat 500c 1.4 petrol Duologic Transmission Failure - Australia

Hi thanks for a quick reply. I did read ur post. Seems like in on the same boat but mine is too expensive.

Ok so did u had the same problem with urs (exactly same?)

If so then they are ripping me off!!! Big time!!!

I will consider ur option.

 

[djay5759]

Re: Fiat 500c 1.4 petrol Duologic Transmission Failure - Australia

So it's
Euros 1200 = AUS $1700

That's a big difference. Of bloody $4300.

 

[ahmett]

Re: Fiat 500c 1.4 petrol Duologic Transmission Failure - Australia

Hi thanks for a quick reply. I did read ur post. Seems like in on the same boat but mine is too expensive.

Ok so did u had the same problem with urs (exactly same?)

If so then they are ripping me off!!! Big time!!!

I will consider ur option.

yes same problem. it doesnt get more expensive than mine as they had to replace the whole dualogic unit from scratch, exactly the same repair they are recommending you. I called Fiat CS and got a 10% discount.
Mind you, another dealer was trying to charge me 2000 Euros.

So the best is, call Fiat CS and tell them the full story from top to bottom.
At the same time call other Fiat dealers and tell them that you have this problem and get a quote.

I personally don't want you to pay that ridiculous money and make the cheat Fiat dealers or Fiat in general any richer, so I will help you to the best of my abilities. Please do keep us informed and call them immediately if you have not done so already.

 

[djay5759]

Re: Fiat 500c 1.4 petrol Duologic Transmission Failure - Australia

Thanks!
Yes I'm on it but seems like their lines are very busy so had to leave a voice message for call back.

Your car was not under warranty right? Because mine is not and its a 2010 model.

 

[ahmett]

Re: Fiat 500c 1.4 petrol Duologic Transmission Failure - Australia

Thanks!
Yes I'm on it but seems like their lines are very busy so had to leave a voice message for call back.

Your car was not under warranty right? Because mine is not and its a 2010 model.

it wasnt. mine is also a 2010 model.

keep on calling them. voice message to Fiat? give me a break =)

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Fiat 500c 1.4 petrol Duologic Transmission Failure - Australia

Please provide me with some kind of solution where I don't have to spend AU $6000.

Sorry, and ouch!

You have my condolences.

As I see it, these are the options:

1. Negotiate some form of goodwill payment through Fiat CS and get the part supplied and fitted by a main dealer. This is what Ahmett did. Unfortunately, on a 2010 car, I doubt you'd get much, if anything. Negotiations could take quite a while, and you'll be without the car for the duration. Once you've authorised the work, I doubt you'll get anything.

2. Buy the part from a franchised local dealer and pay an independent to fit it. You probably won't save much, if anything - and if you have further problems, it might be hard to get any kind of redress. But this could be the cheapest way to get back on the road quickly and still have any confidence in the car.

3. Buy the part in Europe, get it shipped, then find an independent to fit it. Probably cheaper, though you'll either pay a lot for shipping or have to wait months for it, plus the same redress issues as plan 2.

4. Try to source a secondhand unit from a salvage vehicle. The risks of doing this should be obvious.

5. Find a local specialist who can somehow patch together the old unit. It might prove difficult or impossible to find someone who can do this, and even if you do, it's unlikely the repair will last. If you go this route, I'd sell it on quickly to the trade.

6. Sell it "as is". You'll clearly take a big hit on the resale, but it'll be someone else's problem and you can put it behind you and move on.

It's been said before by several folks, but owning a dualogic out of warranty leaves you vulnerable to an unexpected bill for thousands, with little option but to pay if you need the car back on the road quickly. Secondhand dualogics are perhaps best left to enthusiasts with access to salvage.

The selespeed unit is, as far as I know, essentially unrepairable since individual parts cannot easily be obtained.

 

[ahmett]

Re: Fiat 500c 1.4 petrol Duologic Transmission Failure - Australia

Sorry, and ouch!

You have my condolences.

As I see it, these are the options:

1. Negotiate some form of goodwill payment through Fiat CS and get the part supplied and fitted by a main dealer. This is what Ahmett did. Unfortunately, on a 2010 car, I doubt you'd get much, if anything. Negotiations could take quite a while, and you'll be without the car for the duration. Once you've authorised the work, I doubt you'll get anything.

2. Buy the part from a franchised local dealer and pay an independent to fit it. You probably won't save much, if anything - and if you have further problems, it might be hard to get any kind of redress. But this could be the cheapest way to get back on the road quickly and still have any confidence in the car.

3. Buy the part in Europe, get it shipped, then find an independent to fit it. Probably cheaper, though you'll either pay a lot for shipping or have to wait months for it, plus the same redress issues as plan 2.

4. Try to source a secondhand unit from a salvage vehicle. The risks of doing this should be obvious.

5. Find a local specialist who can somehow patch together the old unit. It might prove difficult or impossible to find someone who can do this, and even if you do, it's unlikely the repair will last. If you go this route, I'd sell it on quickly to the trade.

6. Sell it "as is". You'll clearly take a big hit on the resale, but it'll be someone else's problem and you can put it behind you and move on.

It's been said before by several folks, but owning a dualogic out of warranty leaves you vulnerable to an unexpected bill for thousands, with little option but to pay if you need the car back on the road quickly. Secondhand dualogics are perhaps best left to enthusiasts with access to salvage.

The selespeed unit is, as far as I know, essentially unrepairable since individual parts cannot easily be obtained.

mind you i got it fixed by a main dealer = ) my independent gave up on me and said yeah sorry nothing we can do about it, Fiat will charge us the earth to get the part.
it was the main dealer who negotiated with Fiat 10% off with me also calling Fiat and making them aware of the case.
so, despite costing me over a thousand, at least i have peace of mind for a year as it is covered by a Fiat official warranty. After that, if things go well i plan on changing the car.

I believe Fiat will give a discount, but I also believe you must go from main dealer to main dealer as I have personally experienced main dealers to be very erratic in their pricing and standards of service, something Fiat is obviously doing nothing about.

Oh and going back to the OP, the part is at trade price? Are they joking? Even if it has to go all the way to Australia, there is no way it can be 3 times the price. The trade price without a discount is 1200 euros, even with Aussie jetset tax no way could it be over 2000. And it takes the dealer about 1-2 hours to fit it.

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Fiat 500c 1.4 petrol Duologic Transmission Failure - Australia

mind you i got it fixed by a main dealer = ) my independent gave up on me and said yeah sorry nothing we can do about it, Fiat will charge us the earth to get the part.
it was the main dealer who negotiated with Fiat 10% off with me also calling Fiat and making them aware of the case.
so, despite costing me over a thousand, at least i have peace of mind for a year as it is covered by a Fiat official warranty. After that, if things go well i plan on changing the car.

Sorry Ahmett, my mistake - I've updated my previous post and your quote .

 

[ahmett]

Re: Fiat 500c 1.4 petrol Duologic Transmission Failure - Australia

Sorry Ahmett, my mistake - I've updated my previous post and your quote .

No problem!

Oh and finally, even with main dealer intervention, it took 1 month for the part to get from Italy to Greece, and Greece isnt so far away. So either case you may be off the road for a while.
For the record, it took about a working week for Fiat and the dealer to reach an agreement on the price, so please do get Fiat involved ASAP.

I feel sorry for the OP in the sense that, after my experience, there is absolutely no way i would buy a second hand Fiat 500 fitted with dualogic. If i was buying a 2nd hand Fiat 500, i would make sure to save about 1000 EUR to spend on changing the dodgy parts in the car, with the dualogic you would need to budget around 2000 EUR.

 

[sem973]

Re: Dualogic gearbox nightmare......

......update (or lack of it!)....

Chased up Fiat Customer Care yesterday & now me & my car have been assigned to a "senior case manager".... blah....blah....blah

Meanwhile I'm over using the Autotrader app for anything else but a Fiat!....

Sarah

 

[ahmett]

Re: Dualogic gearbox nightmare......

......update (or lack of it!)....

Chased up Fiat Customer Care yesterday & now me & my car have been assigned to a "senior case manager".... blah....blah....blah

Meanwhile I'm over using the Autotrader app for anything else but a Fiat!....

Sarah

excellent. keep us updated. let's see what that 'senior case manager' sees. you are dualogic failure number 3 on the forum in the past month!

 

[sem973]

Re: Dualogic gearbox nightmare......

Cheers Ahmett!....will soon post any updates!....although my fingers aren't crossed or breath held in any way

 

[matandjulie]

Re: Dualogic gearbox nightmare......

Hi all also a newbie,

I have just started experiencing the same problems with 2010 plate 500 1.2 auto sport...

Just got it from a second hand dealer and have covered about 50 miles in it. (29000 on the clock)First issue,gear box warning light came on couldn't get the car out of neutral. Turned the engine on and off a few times which seemed to have solved the problem, since then it had happened twice and gone in to neutral whilst I have been driving twice.

Noticed on the service history 3 months ago it was recovered from the road side due to this, a software update was carried out but a note said something along the lines of (if problem persists actuator will need to be changed)..

Any advice please...

 

[jrkitching]

Re: Dualogic gearbox nightmare......

Just got it from a second hand dealer and have covered about 50 miles in it. (29000 on the clock)...
Any advice please...

I'd be thinking along the lines of rejecting the car and trying to get my money back.

Trading standards may be able to help.

you are dualogic failure number 3 on the forum in the past month!

Now 4 and still counting.

I don't remember dualogics being this much trouble this early in the car's life on the Panda.