Technical The one and only Dualogic failure thread

[Aleexc]

Hi everyone,
I have encountered the most illogical problem when changing the clutch ev0.
It was all good after change for the first km or so when testing
What’s happening

1.The clutch slips for a second or two after each gear change

2.It stalled once not all the time when coming to a stop,like would a manual if you stop in gear without pressing the clutch

3.After reading and deleting errors a couple of times now it gets stuck showing reading errors
This is the most mind blowing issue because it happened after I changed the valve and after I deleted errors a couple of times,and I can still do everything else read parameters,activate actuators do procedures like clutch drain and so
The only thing I can’t do it’s clutch calibration or the clutch index
I have the 5.4 multiecu registered

4.now because I cand read errors anymore the car only goes 1 or R when starting no beeping no nothing as soon as you try to go on the road an go faster than 5km/h gearbox failure and beeping,if I stop turn of and start again same problem gearbox failure and no gear change at all if I take the negative of the battery and start again it starts as I said no beeping but won’t go only 1 and R

Can something fry in the ecu ? And still be able to connect to it? But not read errors?


Btw the first couple of times I could see the errors and delete them it was
Clutch rpm sensor
Vehicle speed sensor
Engine speed sensor
I don’t remember the codes
And there were a couple others I can’t remember I didn’t though to take a picture since I thought I could always check them again if they come up.

Now it’s not even about the errors anymore but more about why it gets stuck in reading errors This is?

God I hope you people can understand what I’m blubbering about here…maybe this happened before?
I have seen cars that wouldn’t let you connect at all but to be able to do everything but see the errors it’s beyond my understanding

 

[A3jeroen]

I think (and I mean THINK) recalibration is always required on a duologic with a new clutch. Purchase MES or find someone near you with it.

gr J

 

[smithgaryuk]

• #21

I have been having issues with my cars dualogic. I didn’t want to pay dealer prices appox$6000 Australian to replace the dualogic in a 2013 car.

My car would not engage gears, message said check hand book.

Though when it was drivable, it would shudder, and drop into neutral. It was really unsafe on main roads. Eventually it just stopped wouldn’t engage gears.

I though that truly the dualogic can’t be this complex to repair.

So I bit the bullet went to a local wreckers and bought a secondhand unit. I benchtested it and there was fluid leaking out of the solenoids, and as well into the front shaft position sensor.

I though there’s no harm in dismantling it. After disassembly I identified that numerous I rings had shrunk on the solenoids and on other places where the seals should seal.

I did notice that at the front of the dualogic unit there is two hoses which connect to the selespeed reservoir bottle, one of these is a weep hose that comes from the bottom half of the dualogic unit.

This was obvious as there was a lot of dried up oil residue on the outside of the unit.

Please note I have great mechanical skills though not so much with hydraulics

I did take out the horizontal position pistons, and the seals. were heavily deteriorated.

I figured that these were leaking along with other o rings, hence that the hydraulic fluid pressure is bypassing o rings and not going to the correct piston. Meaning that the pressure flow of the fluid is influencing another solenoid that should be closed rd or open depending on gear.

This I figured was causing juddering due to incorrect positions because the hydraulic pressure is back flowing ti where it should not be going to, causing gear change issues, dropping out of gear, due to the appropriate internal channel way to be starved of hydraulic pressure or over pressure due to back flow.

This causes the sensors to fault, and trip and throw codes.

I totally dismantled the dualogic and took all the o rings out of the unit, including taking out the clutch piston and sleeve.

I then went to my local industrial o ring shop and had matched up all new o rings and piston seals. The two horizontal shaft position piston seals are an uncommon size and I had to get these custom made.

All up for about $100. Aud I got all the o rings.

I then fitted all the rings to their correct positions, and re-assembled the unit.

Lubing the rings up with Penrite ldas fluid.

I reassembled the unit, and then bench tested it, I tested the pump, it rand for about ten seconds and stopped, the unit retained pressure.

I then tested the solenoids and they all clicked.

I observed the unit for a couple of days looking for oil seepage there was none.

As I didn’t have the fiat software to recalibrate the installation of the dualogic to the gearbox I took it to a local Alfa Fiat workshop as I doubt a genuine service centre would be willing to fit a customer reconditioned dualogic.

The mechanics were awesome, and reinstalled my rebuilt unit, re calibrated it and did a few other jobs on the car, total was about $1900 for the whole job including the secondhand old dualogic and the o rings.

Now the car drives I would say better than new, the gear changes are as smooth as silk, it doesn’t just bang into gear as it did previously.

I tested the pressure and after sitting overnight once the drivers door is opened the pump only runs for about ten seconds to prime up.

I really think that a large majority of issues in the dualogic is due to old and dry o rings not holding pressure.

If anyone in Melbourne or Australia needs one rebuilt let me know. I have a spare I can change over.

Hi there,out of interest how do you check pump pressure and pressure retention?

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi there,out of interest how do you check pump pressure and pressure retention?

By reading the post it appears that pump should only run for about 10 seconds first time drivers door opened 12 or 14 hours after car was last driven .

 

[ahmett]

I think (and I mean THINK) recalibration is always required on a duologic with a new clutch. Purchase MES or find someone near you with it.

gr J

it is have gone through 3-4 clutches over 250,000 km haha

 

[smithgaryuk]

By reading the post it appears that pump should only run for about 10 seconds first time drivers door opened 12 or 14 hours after car was last driven .

Hi,i saw that thanks,i was expecting something along the lines of hooking up a pressure gauge and monitoting thr pressure.
thanks for clarifying

 

[jackwhoo]

Hi,i saw that thanks,i was expecting something along the lines of hooking up a pressure gauge and monitoting thr pressure.
thanks for clarifying

If you want to deeper and more technical get multiecuscan and an adapter

 

[smithgaryuk]

Hi again all ,so im still hoping for some pointers.
The duologic has had some TLC but it still has issues .
So far its had Engine oil /filter ,air filter ,transmission oil change,selespeed oil change,solenoid cleaned/freed up and End of line gearbox calibtation using multiecuscan.
Being honest i have not done full scanning of the car yet as ive only just got multieecuscan and am not familiar with using yet. Previous full scans with my Topdon showed no fault codes.
Where its at currently ...It drives lovely .
But it still delays going into 3rd /4th/5th.-Not a usual auto delay ,its like a struggle for it to make the step.
It feels like its missing whilst trying to engage gear(as in head gasket/water in cylinder) but im not experiencing any evidence to back this up.
That said it can be driving fine in second and then it will stutter for a split second and carry on as normal so its still a possibility and i intend to get my camera down the plugholes this week.
It always finds gears and has never just dropped into neutral.
It makes no unusual noises,but can feel a bit jerky on the throttle sometimes, but most of the time its silky smooth.
Im currently erring towards clutch issues and heres why ....
It judders when pulling off . Im wondering if its really worn (after 47k it probably is).
Could a worn clutch be the reason it delays when changing from third to fourth with what seems like an engine stutter right at the point of gear change during the whole of the approx 3/4 seconds it takes to change up?
Also when its cold (as an aside) it takes a long time to go from 1st to 2nd .Now i live at the top of a hill with a steep incline ,and where i would expect it to change up ,it just hangs in 1st .
At the bottom of the hill is a junction and once pulled out of the junction it finds 2nd fine and immediately.
Any direction much appreciated.
As its her first car ,and i spend alot of time abroad i need it reliable ,so im contemplating hitting everything as one if it is a clutch issue
Clutch change ,headgasket, cambelt, water pump, Selespeed unit overhaul and accumulator if needed, all basically service parts as i see it with duologics.
So all thoughts/comments welcome.
Thanks

 

[A3jeroen]

Check engine ECU for stored faults and clear them.

gr J

 

[Slaartibartfast]

Hi again all ,so im still hoping for some pointers.
The duologic has had some TLC but it still has issues .
So far its had Engine oil /filter ,air filter ,transmission oil change,selespeed oil change,solenoid cleaned/freed up and End of line gearbox calibtation using multiecuscan.
Being honest i have not done full scanning of the car yet as ive only just got multieecuscan and am not familiar with using yet. Previous full scans with my Topdon showed no fault codes.
Where its at currently ...It drives lovely .
But it still delays going into 3rd /4th/5th.-Not a usual auto delay ,its like a struggle for it to make the step.
It feels like its missing whilst trying to engage gear(as in head gasket/water in cylinder) but im not experiencing any evidence to back this up.
That said it can be driving fine in second and then it will stutter for a split second and carry on as normal so its still a possibility and i intend to get my camera down the plugholes this week.
It always finds gears and has never just dropped into neutral.
It makes no unusual noises,but can feel a bit jerky on the throttle sometimes, but most of the time its silky smooth.
Im currently erring towards clutch issues and heres why ....
It judders when pulling off . Im wondering if its really worn (after 47k it probably is).
Could a worn clutch be the reason it delays when changing from third to fourth with what seems like an engine stutter right at the point of gear change during the whole of the approx 3/4 seconds it takes to change up?
Also when its cold (as an aside) it takes a long time to go from 1st to 2nd .Now i live at the top of a hill with a steep incline ,and where i would expect it to change up ,it just hangs in 1st .
At the bottom of the hill is a junction and once pulled out of the junction it finds 2nd fine and immediately.
Any direction much appreciated.
As its her first car ,and i spend alot of time abroad i need it reliable ,so im contemplating hitting everything as one if it is a clutch issue
Clutch change ,headgasket, cambelt, water pump, Selespeed unit overhaul and accumulator if needed, all basically service parts as i see it with duologics.
So all thoughts/comments welcome.
Thanks

I’ve just had all the fluids changed and new battery (was 7 years old) in our 500 Twinair Dualogic, which seems to have improved changes and eliminated the very occasional glitch where it would switch to manual. Just prior to this (as part of a diagnostic) the garage updated the dualogic firmware (never mentioned previously by this dealer or the previous one! ). The only noticeable effects seems to be a) change ups at slightly higher revs. b) delayed change up from 2nd to 3rd when cold and c) usefully holding lower gear when going downhill with no throttle (which significantly improves engine breaking). This latter aspect seems similar to one of your symptoms.
Otherwise I’m pleased to report a fresh love for the car as I also had some front suspension bits replaced and new front discs and pads. Feels almost like new.

 

[smithgaryuk]

Check engine ECU for stored faults and clear them.

gr J

There are no codes in any module using either Multiecuscan or topdon

 

[smithgaryuk]

I’ve just had all the fluids changed and new battery (was 7 years old) in our 500 Twinair Dualogic, which seems to have improved changes and eliminated the very occasional glitch where it would switch to manual. Just prior to this (as part of a diagnostic) the garage updated the dualogic firmware (never mentioned previously by this dealer or the previous one! ). The only noticeable effects seems to be a) change ups at slightly higher revs. b) delayed change up from 2nd to 3rd when cold and c) usefully holding lower gear when going downhill with no throttle (which significantly improves engine breaking). This latter aspect seems similar to one of your symptoms.
Otherwise I’m pleased to report a fresh love for the car as I also had some front suspension bits replaced and new front discs and pads. Feels almost like new.

Thanks for the response.
Im not sure if im expecting too much of it ,ie-Driving like a conventional auto.
The change from second to third is very much like it is bogged down.
Todays activities were gearbox earth points and i had my boresope down each cykinder ,no sign of antifreeze.
Put 4 new plugs in while i was at that , but no improvement.
Is it possible to update firmware using Multiecuscan?
Im confident its a good engine,no stored codes on any modules..
All fresh fluids and i fully flushed the selespeed system.
I havnt yet done a check to see if its holding pressure ..maybe tomorrow.
Im still erring toward clutch due to the judder when pulling off .