Technical Temperature needle moves up and down with the engine started but not moving.

[MKUser]

Hi, I 'm noticing the temperatur needle starts to "dance", going up and down and raising up after a while if you are stopped but with the engine on.
When you're on the road, the temperature is on the middle without any problem.
The thing is when you stop for a while.
I don't hear the cooling fans going even the temperature goes up.
I've checked the fans fuses and they are ok.
The water pump has been changed a few weeks ago.
I don't know if it's a temperature sensor or what.
Anyone has an idea of the problem??

 

[the green vanper]

Hello,

It's normal the engine is cooled better when driving. It is how the system has been engineered. It is cooled by the air flow. When the car is stationary, the fan installed on the radiator has to do the job.

However I'd say that the temperature should get higher constantly from ambient to the point that the fan kicks in. Normally it's around 80 - 90 - 100 degrees, depending on the model. Then it should drop.

Is the movement of the needle smooth? or sudden? The 'dancing' happens at which temperatures? Have you got an obd reader and could check with torque or car scanner? Those are free apps. At least on an android phone.

What's the model and year of the Ducato? and the engine?

 

[MKUser]

Hello,

It's normal the engine is cooled better when driving. It is how the system has been engineered. It is cooled by the air flow. When the car is stationary, the fan installed on the radiator has to do the job.

However I'd say that the temperature should get higher constantly from ambient to the point that the fan kicks in. Normally it's around 80 - 90 - 100 degrees, depending on the model. Then it should drop.

Is the movement of the needle smooth? or sudden? The 'dancing' happens at which temperatures? Have you got an obd reader and could check with torque or car scanner? Those are free apps. At least on an android phone.

What's the model and year of the Ducato? and the engine?

Hey, thanks for the answer.
When running, the needle stays in the middle ( 90 I suppose) without any problem as always.
The thing is if you stop with the engine on , without moving.
After 3 or four minutes, the needle starts to oscillate each time rising up,
arriving near the hot position.
The cool fans don't start in any moment .
I'm afraid of a serious problem if I'm envolved in a traffic jam, having to stay in ralenti a lot of time.
The engine is a 8140.43S Sofim for a Ducato 2.8 jtd ( 2003).
I don't have the Obd at the moment but may try to buy one.
I've readed this engine has two sensors , one for the cool fans and other for temperature gauge.
I've thought maybe the problem is in this last sensor.
What do you think?

 

[Communicator]

Hey, thanks for the answer.
When running, the needle stays in the middle ( 90 I suppose) without any problem as always.
The thing is if you stop with the engine on , without moving.
After 3 or four minutes, the needle starts to oscillate each time rising up,
arriving near the hot position.
The cool fans don't start in any moment .
I'm afraid of a serious problem if I'm envolved in a traffic jam, having to stay in ralenti a lot of time.
The engine is a 8140.43S Sofim for a Ducato 2.8 jtd ( 2003).
I don't have the Obd at the moment but may try to buy one.
I've readed this engine has two sensors , one for the cool fans and other for temperature gauge.
I've thought maybe the problem is in this last sensor.
What do you think?

As stated the 2.8jtd has two temperature sensors. The sensor for the gauge also has a thermostatic switch for the high temperature warning light. Both sensor and switch use a common earth return via the sensor body, which is poorly shown on eLearn wiring daigram.

It is worth noting that all four analogue indications on the x244 model use electronically driven stepping motors which can stick.
I had a problem on my 2,8jtd with initial temperature indication being normal immediately when switching ignition engine, but when engine was still cold.

After preparing to change the sensor, I discovered that problem was due to a bad contact at the sensor connector. Problem was fixed after reseating the connector, but contact cleaner was applied as a precaution.

Access to the sensor is either by removing air filter and inlet hoses, or by removing intercooler hoses. The gauge sensor is the larger of the two with connector blades at right ange in roughly circular connector. M16 x 1.5 and 22mm over hexagon (spanner size).

 

[MKUser]

As stated the 2.8jtd has two temperature sensors. The sensor for the gauge also has a thermostatic switch for the high temperature warning light. Both sensor and switch use a common earth return via the sensor body, which is poorly shown on eLearn wiring daigram.

It is worth noting that all four analogue indications on the x244 model use electronically driven stepping motors which can stick.
I had a problem on my 2,8jtd with initial temperature indication being normal immediately when switching ignition engine, but when engine was still cold.

After preparing to change the sensor, I discovered that problem was due to a bad contact at the sensor connector. Problem was fixed after reseating the connector, but contact cleaner was applied as a precaution.

Access to the sensor is either by removing air filter and inlet hoses, or by removing intercooler hoses. The gauge sensor is the larger of the two with connector blades at right ange in roughly circular connector. M16 x 1.5 and 22mm over hexagon (spanner size).

Thanks for your comment...I'll check the sensors.
Do you have any picture to find these easier??

 

[Communicator]

Thanks for your comment...I'll check the sensors.
Do you have any picture to find these easier??

See post #12 in this thread. Or use the search function to look for more.

 

[MKUser]

As stated the 2.8jtd has two temperature sensors. The sensor for the gauge also has a thermostatic switch for the high temperature warning light. Both sensor and switch use a common earth return via the sensor body, which is poorly shown on eLearn wiring daigram.

It is worth noting that all four analogue indications on the x244 model use electronically driven stepping motors which can stick.
I had a problem on my 2,8jtd with initial temperature indication being normal immediately when switching ignition engine, but when engine was still cold.

After preparing to change the sensor, I discovered that problem was due to a bad contact at the sensor connector. Problem was fixed after reseating the connector, but contact cleaner was applied as a precaution.

Access to the sensor is either by removing air filter and inlet hoses, or by removing intercooler hoses. The gauge sensor is the larger of the two with connector blades at right ange in roughly circular connector. M16 x 1.5 and 22mm over hexagon (spanner size).

Do you know the OEN of the sensors in order to buy them??

 

[Mike1alike]

One thing. The temperature needle dances when there is air in the system, too. So, before buying new sensors try doing a system bleeding.

 

[Mike1alike]

Do you know the OEN of the sensors???

Have you tried looking in the ePER? There is the link, up in the menu bar.

 

[MKUser]

One thing. The temperature needle dances when there is air in the system, too. So, before buying new sensors try doing a system bleeding.

Well, thanks.I may try but I want to replace the sensors to avoid more problems.
Do you know the OEN of these sensors??? Thanks

 

[Communicator]

Do you know the OEN of the sensors in order to buy them??

A link to UK Ebay is here. It shows a picture of the gauge sensor, and here is one for the ECU sensor.

 

[MKUser]

A link to UK Ebay is here. It shows a picture of the gauge sensor, and here is one for the ECU sensor.

Thanks a lot...

 

[MKUser]

Thanks a lot...

Sorry, I check the links and they are both for the same sensor.
I think the one for the ECU is the same like thr other

 

[Tintenter]

As a retired electrical engineer from a major UK luxury vehicle manufacturer I can confirm that the temperature gauge & oil pressure gauge (where fitted) are not linear in their rise & fall but are massaged so that the needle rises to the 'Normal' mid position & only moves to the extreme of display when there is a real fault with the system. This is due to the many non technical people who drive automobiles and get concerned with a needle that is constantly moving. These gauges are style features and not meant to be accurate indicators of system performance!

 

[Communicator]

Sorry, I check the links and they are both for the same sensor.
I think the one for the ECU is the same like thr other

Sorry. I must have had some finger trouble. Try this link. Advert mentions two part numbers so try searching with those.

 

[MKUser]

One thing. The temperature needle dances when there is air in the system, too. So, before buying new sensors try doing a system bleeding.

Well , I have replaced the sensors but I find a good idea the bleeding system you say.
Could you tell me how you do it?
Thanks a lot.

 

[Mike1alike]

I don't know your car model to point you exactly, but I'll mention the best way to do it. Generally, there should be two breathers on the system, one up the radiator, another on the hose that goes to the heater inside. With engine off, you take down completely the breathers' caps and the filling cap, then start pouring in coolant. The air will come out. Watch the radiator breather first, when coolant starts coming out there, stop filling and put that breather cap on. Then do the same for the second breather, fill in and stop when coolant comes out on that hole and put that breather cap on there. Make sure the filling level is right, between min and max. That's it.

 

[MKUser]

I don't know your car model to point you exactly, but I'll mention the best way to do it. Generally, there should be two breathers on the system, one up the radiator, another on the hose that goes to the heater inside. With engine off, you take down completely the breathers' caps and the filling cap, then start pouring in coolant. The air will come out. Watch the radiator breather first, when coolant starts coming out there, stop filling and put that breather cap on. Then do the same for the second breather, fill in and stop when coolant comes out on that hole and put that breather cap on there. Make sure the filling level is right, between min and max. That's it.

Thanks a lot...
My model is Ducato 244 2.8 jtd (year 2003).
The engine is 8140.43S.
I've been searching but I didn't find these breathers.
Do you know where they can be in my model?

 

[Mike1alike]

Do you know where they can be in my model?

That is what I said, I don't know.
Maybe someone else can help and may things should be done different than I said, on Ducato.
@Communicator, any idea?

 

[the green vanper]

There should be the eLearn CD for this model in the download section of the forum. It should cover such a procedure.