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fedupcamper
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Got it.
Technical Ducato 2020 engine turns but does not start.
- Thread starter fedupcamper
- Start date
Currently reading:
Technical Ducato 2020 engine turns but does not start.
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fedupcamper
New member
Thanks, I thought so too. I'll check the sensor values and repeat.
The low voltage comes from a dying battery... the camper is on charge atm. should be better soon.
I'll check pedal values too, should they change in real time while the engine is off, but ignition on?
ZaphodB
Established member
It's very very low , unless that was after a lot of cranking (without the associated charge whilst subsequently running)
I see you listed it as a 2.3 in start of post.
Does your diagnostic tool actually work on late vans with SGW, beyond basic OBD stuff, I see you metioned 2.0 HDi at one point which I think is the old Peugeot engine not the Sofim 2.3 used in your size Fiat?
"SGW stands for Security GateWay. Popularly called a Firewall. A Firewall is intended to keep intruders outside. As a result, only officially certified diagnostic equipment is admitted to the internal communication network (CAN network)."
Did you get any higher common rail fuel pressure rreadings as 400kpa is just from the lectric pum,p in tank I think, you should get a much jhigher reading when cranking the engine.
Does your diagnostic tool actually work on late vans with SGW, beyond basic OBD stuff, I see you metioned 2.0 HDi at one point which I think is the old Peugeot engine not the Sofim 2.3 used in your size Fiat?
"SGW stands for Security GateWay. Popularly called a Firewall. A Firewall is intended to keep intruders outside. As a result, only officially certified diagnostic equipment is admitted to the internal communication network (CAN network)."
Did you get any higher common rail fuel pressure rreadings as 400kpa is just from the lectric pum,p in tank I think, you should get a much jhigher reading when cranking the engine.
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fedupcamper
New member
Somehow, this particular car is eating batteries. like I mentioned, fourth battery since 2020-11. I did crank a couple of times, otherwise it's been standing still. Perhaps the living battery is shot and drains the car battery?
What happens is that the SoH of the battery decreases drastically and eventually the battery dies completely, to the point where charging the battery only gives enough power to start the engine once.
Last edited:
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fedupcamper
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It's a 2020 Ducato, Specs as below: (guide me
)FIAT Ducato III Chassi (250, 290) 2.3 D 180 Multijet Diesel 177 hp (although other sources tell me 160hp)
Engine code: F1AGL411A
Date of production: 2020-02
These values are all readings from ignition ON only.
While cranking:
Common Fuel Rail Pressure: 34800kPa (about).
Fuel Rail Pressure: 56400kPa (about).
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fedupcamper
New member
I bought the only one available which was a cheap one.
Firmware 2.1 according to spec and what I could read out from the app.
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fedupcamper
New member
I don't think so, I checked all the drains, nothing is blocked or clogged. Checked main fuse box, it's dry inside. all the connectors seem to be ok.
The "While cranking:
Common Fuel Rail Pressure: 34800kPa (about)." is good enough to start on so thinking more of a mechanical issue.
diego74
Member
That model does not have SWG, when SWG is in place you can not diagnose the car.
Is that 100% for UK registered vehicles, as I understood after around 2018 onwards it was very likely?
diego74
Member
When SGW is in place you can not diagnose the car via OBD2 unless you have certain expensive tools (Autel, Bosch, etc) and pay to get access to this function, since in this case the van can be diagnosed with a cheap OBD2 interface then that means there is no SGW installed on it.
Hello @fedupcamper
Frustrating time for you indeed.
A couple of questions if I may…
The use of the pressure washer by the forecourt attendant - was that with engine running or stationary?
Have you checked that the belt timing is correct as previously suggested by @diego74 ?
Frustrating time for you indeed.
A couple of questions if I may…
The use of the pressure washer by the forecourt attendant - was that with engine running or stationary?
Have you checked that the belt timing is correct as previously suggested by @diego74 ?
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fedupcamper
New member
The use of pressure washer was with the engine running.
The timing belt was changed in January so there shouldn't be any problems there.
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fedupcamper
New member
New update:
After some effort, I managed to drain the entire tank and most of the system from the diesel, thinking it might have been the diesel after all.
I got some diesel from a different station (Avin, one of the biggest in Greece), and also poured in some additives that are supposed to clean the diesel from water, algae, etc., as well. Reasoning behind it was that it might clear whatever is left in the system.
To make a long story short, it did not change anything. Engine still turns over, but does not ignite.
At least now I know how long it takes to drain a fuel tank with a table spoon
(which leads me to a follow up question, is there some type of anti-siphoning protection implemented in the tanks?)
Next, I used starter fluid/spray. The engine shows signs of life, rumbles a bit but does not keep going. I have a few ignitions (although, they do sound muffled).
I had a mechanic come over to try to help, but he couldn't find anything at a quick glance. He checked a few things but was not able to pinpoint any faults.
I double checked that it is not the immobilizer by using the second key. Same story, no ignition.
I've checked all the connectors that are visible to me, all seem fine. I also checked cables and harnesses for wear and tear. All seem to be in order.
The OBD2 scanner does not pick up any fault codes, the NOx-sensor warning is gone.
Still have the mystery of gas pedal only giving values between 20% and 80% when reading the OBD2.
Also, wanted to ask the following: When I press the accelerator all the way down, I get to a position almost by the floor where it stops and then "clicks" the rest of the way (in one click). I haven't noticed that before, but then again, I've never floored it in a camper anyway. Is that something that happens in other 2020 Ducato's as well?
After some effort, I managed to drain the entire tank and most of the system from the diesel, thinking it might have been the diesel after all.
I got some diesel from a different station (Avin, one of the biggest in Greece), and also poured in some additives that are supposed to clean the diesel from water, algae, etc., as well. Reasoning behind it was that it might clear whatever is left in the system.
To make a long story short, it did not change anything. Engine still turns over, but does not ignite.
At least now I know how long it takes to drain a fuel tank with a table spoon
(which leads me to a follow up question, is there some type of anti-siphoning protection implemented in the tanks?)
Next, I used starter fluid/spray. The engine shows signs of life, rumbles a bit but does not keep going. I have a few ignitions (although, they do sound muffled).
I had a mechanic come over to try to help, but he couldn't find anything at a quick glance. He checked a few things but was not able to pinpoint any faults.
I double checked that it is not the immobilizer by using the second key. Same story, no ignition.
I've checked all the connectors that are visible to me, all seem fine. I also checked cables and harnesses for wear and tear. All seem to be in order.
The OBD2 scanner does not pick up any fault codes, the NOx-sensor warning is gone.
Still have the mystery of gas pedal only giving values between 20% and 80% when reading the OBD2.
Also, wanted to ask the following: When I press the accelerator all the way down, I get to a position almost by the floor where it stops and then "clicks" the rest of the way (in one click). I haven't noticed that before, but then again, I've never floored it in a camper anyway. Is that something that happens in other 2020 Ducato's as well?
Sorry to hear you are no further forward..New update:
After some effort, I managed to drain the entire tank and most of the system from the diesel, thinking it might have been the diesel after all.
I got some diesel from a different station (Avin, one of the biggest in Greece), and also poured in some additives that are supposed to clean the diesel from water, algae, etc., as well. Reasoning behind it was that it might clear whatever is left in the system.
To make a long story short, it did not change anything. Engine still turns over, but does not ignite.
At least now I know how long it takes to drain a fuel tank with a table spoon
(which leads me to a follow up question, is there some type of anti-siphoning protection implemented in the tanks?)
Next, I used starter fluid/spray. The engine shows signs of life, rumbles a bit but does not keep going. I have a few ignitions (although, they do sound muffled).
I had a mechanic come over to try to help, but he couldn't find anything at a quick glance. He checked a few things but was not able to pinpoint any faults.
I double checked that it is not the immobilizer by using the second key. Same story, no ignition.
I've checked all the connectors that are visible to me, all seem fine. I also checked cables and harnesses for wear and tear. All seem to be in order.
Also, wanted to ask the following: When I press the accelerator all the way down, I get to a position almost by the floor where it stops and then "clicks" the rest of the way (in one click). I haven't noticed that before, but then again, I've never floored it in a camper anyway. Is that something that happens in other 2020 Ducato's as well?
That throttle click sound odd,
But throttle position does NOT sound like it's related..
It SHOULD start and idle with ZERO throttle input, and it cut out while driving
So back to basics..
You have checked fuel,
Have you added a 2nd earth path to battery ground?
Got reliable readings for fuel rail pressure..?
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fedupcamper
New member
Thank you!Sorry to hear you are no further forward..
That throttle click sound odd,
But throttle position does NOT sound like it's related..
It SHOULD start and idle with ZERO throttle input, and it cut out while driving
So back to basics..
You have checked fuel,
Have you added a 2nd earth path to battery ground?
Got reliable readings for fuel rail pressure..?
I myself have not added a 2nd earth path to battery gnd. Is that something I should do? Or something I should inspect?
I think the reading for the common fuel rail pressure are reliable.
The readings for the low pressure pump were ok on the OBD2 tool, and confirmed when diesel squirted all over the mechanic when he disconnected the fuel line from the filter and asked me to crank the engine
Edit: could the earth strap be the issue? I'm a monkey with a wrench grasping for straws here. Usually when things are a bit mysterious, the gnd is related. Where can I find it?
ZaphodB
Established member
Listened to the video on the first page again, and thought to myself is this engine actually getting any air ?
From a distance it looks as though you’re down the rabbit hole of random diagnosis.
The fact the timing belt was changed in January doesn’t confirm if all is well - if there was a significant amount of water sprayed into the air intake filling the air filter box whilst the engine was running at idle it’s entirely feasible for an engine to hydraulic lock once you accelerated away from the filling station, drawing said water into the engine. You even asked this question on page 1 of this thread. This needs ruling out.
Call me old fashioned, but If it was me I would start with all the basics that are required for an engine to run, as you have supplied it with an easy start that should in theory at least give a momentary burst of life, yet you say it didn’t properly fire up.
So…
Do the timing marks line up, yes or no?
Is the cam-train rotating when the engine is turned over.
Is there adequate compression in the cylinders?
Does live data show the MAF( have you considered unplugging the MAF so the ecu will drop to a generic AF map?),crank, cam and all temp sensors behaving properly?
Is fuel getting to the injectors.
Re the throttle pedal - most modern vehicles have the override ( click) segment- think of it like the old auto kick down cable. - it can override cruise control, speed limiters, cause auto box to gear down if needed.
The fact the timing belt was changed in January doesn’t confirm if all is well - if there was a significant amount of water sprayed into the air intake filling the air filter box whilst the engine was running at idle it’s entirely feasible for an engine to hydraulic lock once you accelerated away from the filling station, drawing said water into the engine. You even asked this question on page 1 of this thread. This needs ruling out.
Call me old fashioned, but If it was me I would start with all the basics that are required for an engine to run, as you have supplied it with an easy start that should in theory at least give a momentary burst of life, yet you say it didn’t properly fire up.
So…
Do the timing marks line up, yes or no?
Is the cam-train rotating when the engine is turned over.
Is there adequate compression in the cylinders?
Does live data show the MAF( have you considered unplugging the MAF so the ecu will drop to a generic AF map?),crank, cam and all temp sensors behaving properly?
Is fuel getting to the injectors.
Re the throttle pedal - most modern vehicles have the override ( click) segment- think of it like the old auto kick down cable. - it can override cruise control, speed limiters, cause auto box to gear down if needed.
