Technical Ducato 2020 engine turns but does not start.

[fedupcamper]

Re: not getting a fault code after disconnecting a sensor, on my van the fault only comes up after engine has been running for a few seconds.

Got it.

 

[fedupcamper]

Normally the sensor disconnection triggers the error as soon as you turn the key to the ON possition, many mechanics without scanners to clean errors have learned it the hard way, but it really depends on how the ECU was programmed by the guys at BOSCH facilities, so if you want to make sure you are disconnecting the correct sensors you can do this by reading the errors while the sensor is disconnected or by reading that sensor value with the scanner, coolant temp should have a different value when connected/disconnected, MAF is in change of air quantity and air temperature, you can check those as well.

The low voltage value also called my atention, but I guess it is wrong data from the scanner, you can double check this with a multimeter while crancking, it should not be very low as the ECU might be turned off due to low voltage, hence nobody will be injecting fuel to the engine.

As with regards to the pedal value, it internally has different potentiometers which usually have crossed values and are constantly compared by the ECU for any inconsistence, please press it down and check if the 80% value goes down to 20% while fully pressed and the one that is listed as 20% now does get increased up to 80%.

If nothing of this provides any useful information it would be time to check if fuel is reaching the cylinders or try to manually inject fuel via the air ducts, but I'm not yet familiar with these engines as I normally work with petrol ones where we use "starting fluid" to diagnose a fuel injection issue but it is not good for diesel engines.

You would also have to check compression, injectors fuel return, check the timing belt marks, and fuel quality maybe?.

Thanks, I thought so too. I'll check the sensor values and repeat.
The low voltage comes from a dying battery... the camper is on charge atm. should be better soon.
I'll check pedal values too, should they change in real time while the engine is off, but ignition on?

 

[ZaphodB]

Yeah noticed that too, did I mention I'm on my fourth battery so far? (and it's giving up on me too)

It's very very low , unless that was after a lot of cranking (without the associated charge whilst subsequently running)

 

[bugsymike]

I see you listed it as a 2.3 in start of post.
Does your diagnostic tool actually work on late vans with SGW, beyond basic OBD stuff, I see you metioned 2.0 HDi at one point which I think is the old Peugeot engine not the Sofim 2.3 used in your size Fiat?
"SGW stands for Security GateWay. Popularly called a Firewall. A Firewall is intended to keep intruders outside. As a result, only officially certified diagnostic equipment is admitted to the internal communication network (CAN network)."
Did you get any higher common rail fuel pressure rreadings as 400kpa is just from the lectric pum,p in tank I think, you should get a much jhigher reading when cranking the engine.

 

[fedupcamper]

It's very very low , unless that was after a lot of cranking (without the associated charge whilst subsequently running)

Somehow, this particular car is eating batteries. like I mentioned, fourth battery since 2020-11. I did crank a couple of times, otherwise it's been standing still. Perhaps the living battery is shot and drains the car battery?

What happens is that the SoH of the battery decreases drastically and eventually the battery dies completely, to the point where charging the battery only gives enough power to start the engine once.

 

[fedupcamper]

I see you listed it as a 2.3 in start of post.
Does your diagnostic tool actually work on late vans with SGW, beyond basic OBD stuff, I see you metioned 2.0 HDi at one point which I think is the old Peugeot engine not the Sofim 2.3 used in your size Fiat?
"SGW stands for Security GateWay. Popularly called a Firewall. A Firewall is intended to keep intruders outside. As a result, only officially certified diagnostic equipment is admitted to the internal communication network (CAN network)."
Did you get any higher common rail fuel pressure rreadings as 400kpa is just from the lectric pum,p in tank I think, you should get a much jhigher reading when cranking the engine.

It's a 2020 Ducato, Specs as below: (guide me )

FIAT Ducato III Chassi (250, 290) 2.3 D 180 Multijet Diesel 177 hp (although other sources tell me 160hp)
Engine code: F1AGL411A
Date of production: 2020-02

These values are all readings from ignition ON only.
While cranking:
Common Fuel Rail Pressure: 34800kPa (about).
Fuel Rail Pressure: 56400kPa (about).

 

[fedupcamper]

I see you listed it as a 2.3 in start of post.
Does your diagnostic tool actually work on late vans with SGW, beyond basic OBD stuff, I see you metioned 2.0 HDi at one point which I think is the old Peugeot engine not the Sofim 2.3 used in your size Fiat?
"SGW stands for Security GateWay. Popularly called a Firewall. A Firewall is intended to keep intruders outside. As a result, only officially certified diagnostic equipment is admitted to the internal communication network (CAN network)."
Did you get any higher common rail fuel pressure rreadings as 400kpa is just from the lectric pum,p in tank I think, you should get a much jhigher reading when cranking the engine.

I bought the only one available which was a cheap one.
Firmware 2.1 according to spec and what I could read out from the app.

 

[fedupcamper]

Do you think that the employee that washed your van could have triggered this issue?:

vid

I don't think so, I checked all the drains, nothing is blocked or clogged. Checked main fuse box, it's dry inside. all the connectors seem to be ok.

 

[bugsymike]

I bought the only one available which was a cheap one.
Firmware 2.1 according to spec and what I could read out from the app.

The "While cranking:
Common Fuel Rail Pressure: 34800kPa (about)." is good enough to start on so thinking more of a mechanical issue.

 

[diego74]

That model does not have SWG, when SWG is in place you can not diagnose the car.

 

[bugsymike]

That model does not have SWG, when SWG is in place you can not diagnose the car.

Is that 100% for UK registered vehicles, as I understood after around 2018 onwards it was very likely?

 

[ZaphodB]

Is that 100% for UK registered vehicles, as I understood after around 2018 onwards it was very likely?

I know it's not a Ducato, but I was 'warned' my 2022 Abarth was likely to have a SGW... but on connecting up MES I found it clearly didn't

 

[diego74]

Is that 100% for UK registered vehicles, as I understood after around 2018 onwards it was very likely?

When SGW is in place you can not diagnose the car via OBD2 unless you have certain expensive tools (Autel, Bosch, etc) and pay to get access to this function, since in this case the van can be diagnosed with a cheap OBD2 interface then that means there is no SGW installed on it.

 

[AsdaPricey]

Hello @fedupcamper

Frustrating time for you indeed.

A couple of questions if I may…

The use of the pressure washer by the forecourt attendant - was that with engine running or stationary?

Have you checked that the belt timing is correct as previously suggested by @diego74 ?