Technical Tappet adjustment? Naah, they adjust automatically.

[RedPeril]

I'm going to have the timing belt checked/replaced with my 2009 1.4L 8 valve Grande having done about 60,000 miles since it was last changed (too soon?) and the Fiat service schedule says to replace the spark plugs and adjust the tappets at this interval. Also, I see the auxilliary belt and water pump should be replaced. I'm not experiencing any misfiring but a slight shuddering occasionally takes place when deaccelerating in fourth gear. The total mileage of the car is 94,000.

One garage I contacted said that the tappets are self adjusting. Is this right?

Any advice or experience would be great.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

One garage I contacted said that the tappets are self adjusting. Is this right?

Wrong: https://www.fiatforum.com/guides/valve-clearance-check-and-adjustment-1-4-8v.824/

 

[RedPeril]

Hello Grande Punto PL and thanks for your post.

Ironicaly, this morning I got the car back from the garage and they said that when they got the top off to check the valve clearances they found hydraulic operated valves!

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Regular 8V or Turbo (T-Jet)?
Normal has shims, turbo hydraulic.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Regular 8V or Turbo (T-Jet)?
Normal has shims, turbo hydraulic.

As does the DOHC 16 valve - which the inexperienced might confuse with the 8 valve as it only has the one cam sprocket?

 

[bugsymike]

Hello Grande Punto PL and thanks for your post.

Ironicaly, this morning I got the car back from the garage and they said that when they got the top off to check the valve clearances they found hydraulic operated valves!

Strange unless Auto Data Manual wrong or replacement engine not series 350A1.000 at some point.
Well as long as you are happy with the work done.

 

[RedPeril]

I've had the car from new and no replacement engine so it's got to be Auto Data Manual wrong. Unlikely, I would have thought or cover wasn't taken off and they guessed. Again, unlikely as I have used them before and they are OK as a garage as far as I can tell or mechanic didn't know what he was looking at?

The car appears to be running well so nothing else that I can do other than keep my eye on it.

 

[bugsymike]

Occasionally Auto Data have issued corrections in some cases, but not aware of one for this.
Maybe another Forum Member will have data regarding your engine number, series 350A1.000.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Well, I hope all goes well for you with this. Hopefully everything is going to be just fine. I don't think we ever really established which engine this is? Can you post a picture of the engine perhaps - although it's all pretty academic now.

 

[RedPeril]

Again, thanks for all the replies.

No problem with the photos of the engine PAJ, it would be interesting to see if we can tie up any lose ends.

I've attached some photos and I hope that they are what you were asking for.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Again, thanks for all the replies.

No problem with the photos of the engine PAJ, it would be interesting to see if we can tie up any lose ends.

I've attached some photos and I hope that they are what you were asking for.

Thanks for posting the pictures, that makes it much easier.

Ok folks, tell me I'm wrong if you like, but this is the "normal" 1.4 8 valve with VVT cam pulley. The VVT actuator solenoid valve is clearly visible in both pictures. More easily seen in the second one though, that's the one taken from the driver's side showing the black plastic cam belt cover straight on. Look at the oil filler cap and just behind it you can see the bolt holding on the air cleaner housing. Now look just to the left of that and you can see the rubber breather pipe. In front of that is a metal cylindrical component with an electric wire connected to it, that's the VVT solenoid. So this engine is the 1.4 8 valve VVT FIRE engine which many of us will be very familiar with and it has solid, shimmed type, tappets.

 

[GrandePunto PL]

Just another example of incompetent pro mechanics. They can fix VW TDI all day, but they fail when you throw Fiat at them.

That's regular 1,4 8V (so the mentioned valve adjustment Guide applies here 100%).

 

[eeeno]

That's same engine that I have and I've had lots fun with it. Indeed, that mechanic must have felt a little lazy and lied to you about the hydraulic valves. He couldn't care less to even check the clearances. I'd be very worried if he actually did anything to the car, so I'd just take the upper timing belt cover off to check that the belt looked brand new.

Luckily if the emissions test shows no issues with quite new spark plugs and all and it has power, it's highly unlikely that it'd need adjusting. So you shouldn't have to worry about that.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

That's same engine that I have and I've had lots fun with it. Indeed, that mechanic must have felt a little lazy and lied to you about the hydraulic valves. He couldn't care less to even check the clearances. I'd be very worried if he actually did anything to the car, so I'd just take the upper timing belt cover off to check that the belt looked brand new.

Luckily if the emissions test shows no issues with quite new spark plugs and all and it has power, it's highly unlikely that it'd need adjusting. So you shouldn't have to worry about that.

This engine is very common and found in many vehicles so it's a bit strange that the mechanic thought the tappets were hydraulic. It's pretty easy to take that top cover off - don't forget the bolt that "hides" under the label, if the label is still there - and I think I'd be doing that if it was me just to be sure a new belt, tensioner and water pump have actually been fitted. But then I'm a bit of a cynical and suspicious old fart.

I agree the valve clearances will be most unlikely to require attention and would remind you that if, with a new belt fitted and after you've driven it about for a wee while, the check engine light comes on, then it's likely it needs a Phonic Wheel Relearn for which a suitable scan tool, like MES or the dealer computer tool, will be needed.

 

[Popitinpete]

Again, thanks for all the replies.

No problem with the photos of the engine PAJ, it would be interesting to see if we can tie up any lose ends.

I've attached some photos and I hope that they are what you were asking for.

Hi, the valve adjustment on your engine is the bucket and shim arrangement. Your car does NOT have hydraulic tappets. Your mechanic has told you porkies, obviously couldnt be bothered to even take the top off to look. Show him these replies....?
Good news is these hardly ever need adjusting and if truth be told they are not usually even checked on a service per say really (although its always good practice) as you can tell if something is not right by the engine sounds.
No need to worry about them.

 

[RedPeril]

Thanks again for all of the replies. I spoke to the mechanic again and he will not be dissuaded from his opinion that the car is fitted with hydraulic lifters! I also spoke to my local Fiat dealer and he was able to give me (eyewatering) prices for inlet and exhaust parts but worryingly he could not tell me if they were "conventional" or hydraulic.

The car was purchased in late December 2009. The Evo variant also came out at about the same time, I think? Did the Evo have hydraulic lifters? Is it possible that my car was fitted with hydraulic parts as part of a changover? Am I clutching at straws?!

My garage also said that the ticking sound was coming from a loose exhaust manifol/gasket and not the valves.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Thanks again for all of the replies. I spoke to the mechanic again and he will not be dissuaded from his opinion that the car is fitted with hydraulic lifters! I also spoke to my local Fiat dealer and he was able to give me (eyewatering) prices for inlet and exhaust parts but worryingly he could not tell me if they were "conventional" or hydraulic.

The car was purchased in late December 2009. The Evo variant also came out at about the same time, I think? Did the Evo have hydraulic lifters? Is it possible that my car was fitted with hydraulic parts as part of a changover? Am I clutching at straws?!

Main Dealer prices? Mostly I buy good quality pattern made parts - to original equipment standards - from my local factor at very considerable savings compared to genuine manufacturer branded parts. However sometimes they can't supply and the part has to be a genuine manufacturer's part. In this case I tend to give Shop4parts a quick bell and they invariably come up with what I need at a healthy saving compared to the dealer price. By the way, just because you can't find what you're looking for on their website doesn't mean they don't have it or are able to get it for you. Always worth a phone call.

Regarding your engine. Looking at the photo's you posted it's a dead ringer, ie. appears identical to, the 1.4 8 valve in my boy's 2012 Punto - so the model after the EVO - & I can say with 99.9% certainty that it's a solid tappet with shims and most unlikely to require any attention unless it's making clearly audible "ticking" noises when running at normal temperature. Frankly I'm astonished that a genuine Fiat dealer is unable to categorically confirm this.

My garage also said that the ticking sound was coming from a loose exhaust manifol/gasket and not the valves.

Now that's a distinct possibility. It'll be slightly different to a ticking tappet in that it'll be louder when the engine is pulling under load and not quite so dependent on engine rpm. ie, Loud, even from quite low revs, with the engine pulling hard but all but inaudible in the overrun. To check for it get a length of flexible pipe - something like rubber/plastic fuel line, even fish aquarium tubing, works well. stick one end in your ear and, with the engine running, move the other end of the tube around the joint interface between the manifold and cylinder head. You'll hear the blow as the end of the pipe passes where it's leaking. Take care not to burn yourself on the very hot manifold/exhaust and don't let the tube get caught up in the fan belt or other revolving parts, it can hurt!

 

[GrandePunto PL]

1. Valve lash should be OK if you don't have LPG fuel (if you do, adjustment is obligatory every 1-2 years). Without LPG it's worth checking once in a vehicle's lifetime.
Another reason to check clearances is condition of the valve cover gasket and pseudo "o-rings" (they go bad faster than the gasket), there might be a pressure loss (and spoiled VVT action).

2. Exhaust manifold studs fatigue is fairly common. Typically it's "ticking" sound while cold (and under load), but should get quiet after 5 minutes of drive. So it gets quiet faster than oil is heating up (therefore you can assume it's not oil related, lubrication and VVT system is probably OK).