Technical sump plug hell

[sherbsville]

Hi,


sorry, me again. I'm having the BEST fun after over 3 hours of trying I can't budge the sump plug. I've totally wrecked my left shoulder, and am grumpy.

I ordered a 12mm hex thing off amazon, but didn't realise the square hole was a different size to dads big ratchet, I didn't panic as he had a smaller one. Still too big. Asked him to help, and he did. I just randomly walked to the back shelf and there was a small one that fit. Awesome.

It won't budge, atall. Hurt myself in a few places, tried wd40, no joy. If I force it anymore, the ratchet will snap.

Went to screwfix, and got some things that go on the drill to attach to the hex thing.

Still won't budge. Had to come in as knackered, and its almost dark now anyway.

Does anyone have any advice for what else I can try please? I guess they went insane in the garage when they tightened it last year.

Also there was some oil on the other side of the oil tank that's coming from somewhere. So that was nice to see. It's not enough to show up on the drive tho. So just gonna keep an eye on oil level and drive.

Thankyou.

 

[Greasytrucker]

You need a breaker bar for more leverage by the sounds of it

 

[rmjbn1]

Leverage is key. And I agree, someone's done it up far too tight.

Can you fit anything over the driver you already have to extend it? Any kind of thick metal tube or pole should do the trick.

I have a 600mm breaker bar for really tight fittings. It makes life much easier, there isn't much it can't shift.

If you have one, I would rather put strain through a fixed driver, not a ratchet. A ratchet can't take much force.

I would typically use a driver to get tight fixings started, then switch to a ratchet to make it quicker if needed, a drill with adapter if it's a long thread needing a lot of winding. Which the sump plug isn't.

Socket drivers come in three sizes: 1/4, 3/8 (most common) and 1/2 inch.

 

[AnthonyH]

I took some pictures of the tools i use:

A breaker bar - 1/2 inch
A deep 21mm socket for the breaker bar
My hex sump key

The sump key goes inside the 21mm socket, which goes onto the breaker bar.

 

[Didge3]

That's quite a lot of adaptors which in my experience creates quite a bit of play/wobble making it harder to get firm leverage

 

[RalphM]

Are you sure your trying to turn it the right way?
if the plugs on the back of the sump and your working
from the front it can be confusing.

 

[rmjbn1]

I've just remembered FIAT kindly gave me this wheel nut brace in the boot of my Panda, which I've used as an extension once or twice.

Is there one in your boot? It may fit over the handle of your driver for extra leverage.

There are also 1/2" to 3/8" drive adaptors which can be useful. Maybe your dad had something like this in his, er, filing system?

 

[John202020]

Be very careful with a tight plug and a possibly crispy sump pan you really need to be sure, using a breaker bar should really be a last resort if at all.

Under the car put the wrench in horizontal/level, end pointing to the passenger side, now gently pull down.

If you get it out, you could replace it, or check for damage, clean fully and apply a bit red sealer then put back being careful not to overtighten so hold the wrench close to the plug to limit turning force.

 

[koalar]

The internet will disagree

And people will say it pulls the threads out

But it's usually much easier if the engine is hot

 

[sherbsville]

Ok, thankyou all so much. I will see what I can find tomorrow, and add a pic of what I have. There is a breaker bar in the ratchet and socket set box, I had no idea what it was. It doesn't fit in the hex thing I bought tho. It's too big.

There's no way to budge it without getting more leverage, even then I'm suss. I tried undoing it both ways incase for some bizarre reason it wasn't lefty loosey, but nope.

I was already thinking maybe I should buy a new sump plug, incase it's messed up. Where is the best and quickest place to get one please? Hope they arent too dear.

I just feel the garage over tightened it, or maybe knackered the threads. Idk if that can happen, or I made it up. All the videos were like it needs a really low torq, so don't go crazy. Well, they went crazy.

The engine had been running about ten minutes, then I let it cool a bit so I wouldnt go melting terminator in the oil. The videos said it drains better with warmer oil.

I will look in the boot in the morning and see what's in there under the carpet o mystery.

On a positive note, I've nailed raising bubbles. I put a mirror out, so I could see the wheel. I bought two low kerb ramps. I have one on a thick plank, then the other half under that with a bit of wood, and it gives me about kerb height, maybe a bit more. I also bought a single axle stand, that I put some wood on, that fit in it, to catch the car if the ramps failed. I figured falling on the wood would hurt bubbles less than the metal edges. For the first two hours I would only put one arm under, after that I put both under, but am still scared of putting my head properly under.

I guess I'm learning, but it's annoying when no one in the videos ever has this much drama.

Also, pro tip, don't wear fluffy warm trousers, that are kinda like sheep, when rolling around on the drive, as all the dirt and leaves get caught in em.

Edit: I'm gonna go to halfords tomorrow or monday, and either get the adaptors, of if they dont fit the breaker bar, a 3/8 breaker bar. They have both in stock rn. So I probs wont post a pic of the stuff.

Also the sump plugs are confusing, has anyone bought one before pls, which did you get? ty. They're not alot, so will change it anyway.

 

[Greasytrucker]

Ok, thankyou all so much. I will see what I can find tomorrow, and add a pic of what I have. There is a breaker bar in the ratchet and socket set box, I had no idea what it was. It doesn't fit in the hex thing I bought tho. It's too big.

There's no way to budge it without getting more leverage, even then I'm suss. I tried undoing it both ways incase for some bizarre reason it wasn't lefty loosey, but nope.

I was already thinking maybe I should buy a new sump plug, incase it's messed up. Where is the best and quickest place to get one please? Hope they arent too dear.

I just feel the garage over tightened it, or maybe knackered the threads. Idk if that can happen, or I made it up. All the videos were like it needs a really low torq, so don't go crazy. Well, they went crazy.

The engine had been running about ten minutes, then I let it cool a bit so I wouldnt go melting terminator in the oil. The videos said it drains better with warmer oil.

I will look in the boot in the morning and see what's in there under the carpet o mystery.

On a positive note, I've nailed raising bubbles. I put a mirror out, so I could see the wheel. I bought two low kerb ramps. I have one on a thick plank, then the other half under that with a bit of wood, and it gives me about kerb height, maybe a bit more. I also bought a single axle stand, that I put some wood on, that fit in it, to catch the car if the ramps failed. I figured falling on the wood would hurt bubbles less than the metal edges. For the first two hours I would only put one arm under, after that I put both under, but am still scared of putting my head properly under.

I guess I'm learning, but it's annoying when no one in the videos ever has this much drama.

Also, pro tip, don't wear fluffy warm trousers, that are kinda like sheep, when rolling around on the drive, as all the dirt and leaves get caught in em.

Edit: I'm gonna go to halfords tomorrow or monday, and either get the adaptors, of if they dont fit the breaker bar, a 3/8 breaker bar. They have both in stock rn. So I probs wont post a pic of the stuff.

Also the sump plugs are confusing, has anyone bought one before pls, which did you get? ty. They're not alot, so will change it anyway.

The chances of you needing a new sump plug are very slim I’d have thought, it’s just having the correct tools to get the existing one out. Sounds to me like you have the bar that comes with lots of the “cheaper” shall we say socket sets, I wouldn’t actually call these breaker bars as they’re not much longer than a ratchet and normally bend if a piece of bar or similar is slipped over to provide more leverage, and as you’ve said it’s 1/2 inch drive so needs an adapter. Go for the breaker bar option and I’m sure it’ll budge. Welcome to the learning curve that is car maintenance

 

[steveras57]

I had a similar problem on one of my cars years ago( turned out the thread wae knackered by a previous owner) and they used epoxy resin on the dam thing!
I could not get enough clearance for a breaker bar and was just not strong enough or had enough leverage to get it moving, in the end the solution was to use a solid bar with a tube over it and using a bottle jack under the end of the handle slowly cranking up the jack had the whole weight of the car against the plug and it did crack free! ( it made quite a noise i can tell you!) if all else fails this might work for you as well!.
best of luck!

 

[varesecrazy]

The plug is actually tapered.. So don't need to be crazy tight,

My 500's plug was Twice as tight as required

I am thinking your plug has been bonded in..
Been reported on here a few times


Another thing that gets mentioned..
People buy a replacement plug.. And have a disaster.. As its Not identical and they screw it right through the thread and into the sump pan

In your situation..
I would approach a local garage,
seeing it up in the air you will get a far better view of any bodgery,
And watch the mechanic undo it with the correct tool and technique


One common thing.. (my dad had this on a FORD)

Some places Pump out the oil,
His sump plug has been in situ for 12 years, that was hard to remove

 

[Greasytrucker]

The plug is actually tapered.. So don't need to be crazy tight,

My 500's plug was Twice as tight as required

I am thinking your plug has been bonded in..
Been reported on here a few times


Another thing that gets mentioned..
People buy a replacement plug.. And have a disaster.. As its Not identical and they screw it right through the thread and into the sump pan

In your situation..
I would approach a local garage,
seeing it up in the air you will get a far better view of any bodgery,
And watch the mechanic undo it with the correct tool and technique


One common thing.. (my dad had this on a FORD)

Some places Pump out the oil,
His sump plug has been in situ for 12 years, that was hard to remove

Some good “real life” experience there Think I’d try with a breaker bar and if it still won’t budge then yes, let a local garage have the stress! Hopefully it’s just a bit tighter than it should be and just needs a bit more persuasion

 

[sherbsville]

Oh wow, thankyou all so much. I was thinking about going to the garage who did it asking em to loosen it, as they put it on, but they will prob charge me, and then they might as well change the oil. I don't want that, as I want to be able to do it each year from now on.

Say they have bonded it, would it be possible to put it back without bonding, or would I need a new plug? If I need rebond it, even with this plug, what should I use? Obvs this would be rubbish, as I'd be in the same situation next year.

I will get a breaker bar today and let you know later. Dads breaker bar is quite long, but I know there's a longer one somewhere, as I remember him using it. I wish I knew where I chucked the stuff from his car boot, as there were loads of tools in there.

Thankyou so much for all the advice and experience, seems I'm not alone in experiencing sump plug hell!

 

[koalar]

They can kind of grow together and be quite difficult to remove

Very few will ever be bonded in, certainly not by a garage may have to service the car in the future

It not uncommon for them to be tight, especially if it's not been removed for a year or two

How long is the bar your trying to undo it with, you need around 2 foot normally

There's so many possibilities, over tight, cross thread and so on

Proper tools, usually turn what seems like a problem in to an easy job

Which engine

There's at least three different sump plugs depending on which engine

And a steel or aluminium sump

 

[sherbsville]

They can kind of grow together and be quite difficult to remove

Very few will ever be bonded in, certainly not by a garage may have to service the car in the future

It not uncommon for them to be tight, especially if it's not been removed for a year or two

How long is the bar your trying to undo it with, you need around 2 foot normally

There's so many possibilities, over tight, cross thread and so on

Proper tools, usually turn what seems like a problem in to an easy job

Which engine

There's at least three different sump plugs depending on which engine

And a steel or aluminium sump

View attachment 454646View attachment 454647View attachment 454648

Thankyou. It's a 1.2, I think it's the first one, as I found info saying it doesn't have a washer. When I looked at car places they had like 30 different of the same one. Idk what makes are good, and I know people have had mares with new ones.

The bar at halfords is only 15", and looks kinda skinny tbh. I don't know if I'd have enough room for a bigger one tho.

 

[koalar]

Thankyou. It's a 1.2, I think it's the first one, as I found info saying it doesn't have a washer. When I looked at car places they had like 30 different of the same one. Idk what makes are good, and I know people have had mares with new ones.

The bar at halfords is only 15", and looks kinda skinny tbh. I don't know if I'd have enough room for a bigger one tho.

Great that answers a lot

Steel sump
Tapper plug
And it's the right plug fitted


If it tight (which it is) you will struggle with a 15" bar

The mechanical advantage of a long lever is probably all that's required, twice the length, halves the effort required

 

[AnthonyH]

Here's a 600mm breaker bar.

Sealey AK730 Breaker Bar 600mm 1/2"Sq Drive | Euro Car Parts

Sealey AK730 Breaker Bar 600mm 1/2"Sq Drive at the lowest UK prices from Euro Car Parts UK’s No.1 for Car Accessories, Car Styling & Car Care. Buy today Online, In store or by Phone + Branches Nationwide – Next Day UK Free Delivery.

www.eurocarparts.com

 

[jackwhoo]

You will be fine , new ramps won't fail , when you get in correct position to pull lever efficiency, anti clockwise to undo when looking at drain plug, a metal tube over bar gives even more leverage.
If you can get some help holding the key end fully into plug you could try pushing end of lever with you foot(legs usually stronger than arms)
Getting you body in collect position for arms or legs to work fully could be key to this for you.