Technical Sudden and nearly unannounced battery failure

[Herts Hillhopper]

I know there have been many posts about batteries, including from me, and many who seem to 'disbelieve' that the various errors reported via ODB or odd running problems are battery related.

But here's a 'surprise' – for me at least. My 4x4 MJ is just 5 years old (pre-reg May 2018, 'new' to me with 4 miles on the clock in early August 2018. It's done 49,000 miles, and in the past year 'only' about 8000 a year (previously 15,000 or so).

For a while now the stop/start has not been operating, or, if it does stop, has restarted just a second or two later as it sensed the battery was suffering...

Yesterday, with no prior signs at all, after an earlier trip to the shops, it simply had no power to start half an hour later. I jump started it from our other car, then measured the voltage with the engine running. Just 12.1v (using a 'real' AVO meter). Turned it off, showed 11.9. A few moments later, 9.8! Jump started again: no warning lights but various warning s we all know (ELD, HillHolder, no power steering...)

Bought and fitted a new battery today... all is well again, 12.8v after a run, everything fine. Interestingly though, measuring voltage with engine running, still only 12.8v (id expect higher if alternator doing its thing... but we've seen here before the alternator only really gives charging power on the overrun)

Anyway - case proved: the battery can and does fail quite abruptly. Five years isn't bad for a modern stop-start battery, apparently. So, be warned, and be ready to replace at first sign of any issues

 

[jrkitching]

Yesterday, with no prior signs at all, after an earlier trip to the shops, it simply had no power to start half an hour later.

I've had this happen, more than once and on several different cars.

Modern batteries don't seem to degrade gracefully like batteries of old; they just stop working, often with little or no warning.

The last one in the Panda died in a Lidl car park; I'd been there less than half an hour. Fortunately managed a push start & drove about 10 miles straight to the nearest factors. As soon as I turned it off, there wasn't enough power left in the battery even to raise the window. Fitted a replacement in ECP's car park and it's been fine ever since.

 

[The Panda Nut]

I know there have been many posts about batteries, including from me, and many who seem to 'disbelieve' that the various errors reported via ODB or odd running problems are battery related.

But here's a 'surprise' – for me at least. My 4x4 MJ is just 5 years old (pre-reg May 2018, 'new' to me with 4 miles on the clock in early August 2018. It's done 49,000 miles, and in the past year 'only' about 8000 a year (previously 15,000 or so).

For a while now the stop/start has not been operating, or, if it does stop, has restarted just a second or two later as it sensed the battery was suffering...

Yesterday, with no prior signs at all, after an earlier trip to the shops, it simply had no power to start half an hour later. I jump started it from our other car, then measured the voltage with the engine running. Just 12.1v (using a 'real' AVO meter). Turned it off, showed 11.9. A few moments later, 9.8! Jump started again: no warning lights but various warning s we all know (ELD, HillHolder, no power steering...)

Bought and fitted a new battery today... all is well again, 12.8v after a run, everything fine. Interestingly though, measuring voltage with engine running, still only 12.8v (id expect higher if alternator doing its thing... but we've seen here before the alternator only really gives charging power on the overrun)

Anyway - case proved: the battery can and does fail quite abruptly. Five years isn't bad for a modern stop-start battery, apparently. So, be warned, and be ready to replace at first sign of any issues

My TA seeems to hold 12.8/12.9 too.

 

[Geordie Robbo]

I know there have been many posts about batteries, including from me, and many who seem to 'disbelieve' that the various errors reported via ODB or odd running problems are battery related.

But here's a 'surprise' – for me at least. My 4x4 MJ is just 5 years old (pre-reg May 2018, 'new' to me with 4 miles on the clock in early August 2018. It's done 49,000 miles, and in the past year 'only' about 8000 a year (previously 15,000 or so).

For a while now the stop/start has not been operating, or, if it does stop, has restarted just a second or two later as it sensed the battery was suffering...

Yesterday, with no prior signs at all, after an earlier trip to the shops, it simply had no power to start half an hour later. I jump started it from our other car, then measured the voltage with the engine running. Just 12.1v (using a 'real' AVO meter). Turned it off, showed 11.9. A few moments later, 9.8! Jump started again: no warning lights but various warning s we all know (ELD, HillHolder, no power steering...)

Bought and fitted a new battery today... all is well again, 12.8v after a run, everything fine. Interestingly though, measuring voltage with engine running, still only 12.8v (id expect higher if alternator doing its thing... but we've seen here before the alternator only really gives charging power on the overrun)

Anyway - case proved: the battery can and does fail quite abruptly. Five years isn't bad for a modern stop-start battery, apparently. So, be warned, and be ready to replace at first sign of any issues

Happened to me also. It was the Alternator & its integral Voltage Regulator (belt was loose also).
Although sceptical at first, but because it was near, I (jump started) & limped to the local Halfords Service Centre who were actually very helpful, knowledgable and got it sorted. Needed a new Alt & VR. The previously often drained new battery is now back fighting fit, no damage.

 

[portland_bill]

I know there have been many posts about batteries, including from me, and many who seem to 'disbelieve' that the various errors reported via ODB or odd running problems are battery related.

But here's a 'surprise' – for me at least. My 4x4 MJ is just 5 years old (pre-reg May 2018, 'new' to me with 4 miles on the clock in early August 2018. It's done 49,000 miles, and in the past year 'only' about 8000 a year (previously 15,000 or so).

Car batteries, if fresh when first used, generally last about 7 years. Leaving them discharged, even for a short time, significantly reduces their life. My Fabia battery, at just over 8 years old is living on borrowed time.
A long time ago, working for a large car parts distributor, we investigated the high incidence of warranty claims. Using the build date of the battery, and comparing this with its sale date, showed that 98% of the early failures were over 3 months old at first use. With a changed regime, of stocking fewer, and ensuring voltages were checked monthly, and recharged if necessary, warranty claims almost disappeared.
Your car being a pre-reg tells a tale. Likely to haev been sat between May and August, and the battery went low. It's done well at 5 years. Sadly, as already said, modern batteries tend to die suddenly.

For all, whenever buying a new battery, check the manufacturing date, and if possible, the voltage. If older than a couple of months, or below 12.4v, reject it.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Following on from my earlier comments about measuring voltage: I read (and now can't find where, but an alternator site) that intelligent alternators (fitted to many cars inc the Euro 6 Panda) will normally deliver around 12.5 volts most of the time, except very soon after starting where, if the battery is in need of it, it can deliver a higher voltage for just long enough to replenish after running the starter, and only when the engine is not under load (ie on the overrun, lifted off throttle, downhill etc). Based on that, don't expect to see 14.5 volts any other time... If you have a voltage-sensing module on the battery negative terminal, you have an intelligent alternator (and a stop-start battery): this module is used to control the alternator's output voltage.

Edit: found the link: https://rayneautomotivehelp.freshdesk.com/support/solutions/articles/77000159695-what-is-a-smart-alternator-and-have-i-got-one-#:~:text=If your readings are around,you have a smart alternator.