Technical Steering and other dash lights

[Most Easterly Pandas]

I find it hard to believe that garages would still be changing the whole unit simply because a poor battery was throwing up an error. Surely by now the trade would be well aware that issue.

It's diagnostics laziness. Most expect a computer to tell them everything and be 100% correct all of the time.

 

[JLP]

Yes MEP I've experienced that with the coop. I changed Lambda sensor couple years back, then recently car started displaying similar symptons. Stupidly I dismissed it as a Lambda issue due to the relatively recent change. Tested injectors, changed fuel filter, put original chip back in, none of which seemed to be the issue, so rather than changing stuff needlessly I left it into an Alfa specialist who knows his way around Fiat coops. Had it a week. Said computer didn't show any issues and said he couldn't get it to replicate the symtons I'd described. (though I'd suffered them for weeks) 100 yards from home it started again. Took sensor out cleaned it and put it back in. Worked fine for 3 weeks, then started again. So I replaced it myself...now 8 to 10 months later no further issues.

However in this case surely I'd suspect enough dealers would have went to the expense of changing the coloumn only to find the light still on and the diagnostics still showing the same fault if it had been down to the battery and not the EPS unit for them to check battery first ...Yes/No?

 

[JLP]

Just one more thing...I assume that the correct operation of the light is that it comes on with ignition turned on and then goes off when engine starts? Would hate to pick it up after fix only to discover later they'd just done a bit of gerry mandering in order to stop the light coming on...yes I'm not the most trusting of sorts when it comes to tradesmen of any description

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

The light should indeed come one and go off, just like ABS, Airbag etc. Worth noting though that the Panda's icons are LED, so they'd have the stip the who cluster, desolder it etc. and then, the car should then bring up the 'LED fault' warning to show that a warning lamp isn't working correctly. So I doubt they'd go to that extreme, but you never know.

 

[JLP]

Thanks again MEP. Sorry to take advantage of your know how so much but that raises a couple more questions that I'd be very grateful for advice on. The headlight light on the dash doesnt light up (sidelight lights up fine) Is it straightforward enough to change; and as I dont appear to have any LED fault warning light on, I take it that it doesnt come on when an led simply needs replaced (if indeed they can be replaced)

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

When you say headlight warning doesn't come one, but sidelights do, do you mean a warning for sidelights being on comes up on the dash, or no lights come up on the dash at all to indicate external lighting is switched on?

 

[JLP]

All external lights work.

The light on the dashboard that indicates to the driver that the headlights are on doesn't work.

Side lights fine on all fronts
High beam fine on all fronts

Hope thats clearer

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

All external lights work.

The light on the dashboard that indicates to the driver that the headlights are on doesn't work.

Side lights fine on all fronts
High beam fine on all fronts

Hope thats clearer

You the Green Light on the dashboard to say the sidelights are on works? and the Blue one to say the high beams are on works, but there isn't another for dipped beam

There should only be 2, the Sidelights one, which comes on for sidelights only, sidelights and dipped beam, and the blue which will come on when the main beams are operated.

 

[JLP]

Ah ermmm hmmm yes, somewhat embarassing that ...had convinced myself the coop had one for sidelight and headlight and thought panda must be same...the coop I realised this morning doesn't have one for each. Oh well I've only had the coop seven years so easy mistake to make

 

[JLP]

Having double checked my rights under consumer law I have decided I dont want the car. I'm at this moment waiting for the manager to call me back as he was unavailable when I phoned. I'll be requesting a full refund. If he tells me I have accepted a repair I'll be informing him that I was prepared to accept a repair when under the impression (given by his staff) that it just needed a sensor. Now that I know thats not the case I have stopped using the car and want a full refund. Also the key is now sticking in the door lock and the barrel of the lock is starting to work loose. (minor issue probably but as I'm not amused I'll throw everything including kitchen sink at him at this point)

Not looking forward to the conversation but if he hasn't called me back shortly I'll be back on the phone to them.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

Having double checked my rights under consumer law I have decided I dont want the car. I'm at this moment waiting for the manager to call me back as he was unavailable when I phoned. I'll be requesting a full refund. If he tells me I have accepted a repair I'll be informing him that I was prepared to accept a repair when under the impression (given by his staff) that it just needed a sensor. Now that I know thats not the case I have stopped using the car and want a full refund. Also the key is now sticking in the door lock and the barrel of the lock is starting to work loose. (minor issue probably but as I'm not amused I'll throw everything including kitchen sink at him at this point)

Not looking forward to the conversation but if he hasn't called me back shortly I'll be back on the phone to them.

Sounds fair enough, as much as I like Panda's, I can't blame you. You've paid decent honest money, so should expect and honest car.

Dare I ask if you're going to buy another Panda

 

[JLP]

MEP (First of all thankyou very much for all your advice and guidance) It wouldn't put me off buying another Panda, but my daughter hates it, so this time round I wont be. I've owned quite a few Fiats, from a 126 to my current 20VT.

Still no reply from dealership. And I've phoned twice now. Today I was happy to play it softly softly with dealer stating that under the sale of goods act I'm entitled to full refund as car has not lasted a reasonable time in a reasonable condition. By tomorrow it will be a case of stating that they fraudulently misrepresnted the nature and extent of the repair required!

One other thing I've just noticed: theres no door lock on the front passenger side door. Is that normal on the basic active?

 

[jrkitching]

One other thing I've just noticed: theres no door lock on the front passenger side door. Is that normal on the basic active?

Yup. Normal on all versions AFAIK.

Since the Active has no remote locking, if the driver's door lock does fail outright, you'll be left with crawling through the hatchback to get in.

Good luck with pursuing your claim.

It wouldn't put me off buying another Panda, but my daughter hates it

If you can still see the funny side of what for you is a serious situation, read this and then this.

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

:yeahthat:

Single door lock is standard on them all

 

[JLP]

Very good My daughter pretty much said the same thing.

Well no surprize - they never did phone me back this evening.

Think I'll be paying them a personal visit in the morning.

Just out of interest - if the EPS sensor cant be changed without changing the whole EPS steering column, would the fault codes show it as a faulty sensor or would it show up as an EPS unit/steering column fault (hope that makes sense) I'm just trying to ascertain if they have been deliberately misleading about the nature and magnitude of the fault or is it plausible that the fault came up as a sensor issue and they've just neglected to tell me that it will require a whole new steering column?

 

[JLP]

And I take it replacing lock/key/code turns into an expensive affair too :shrug:

 

[Most Easterly Pandas]

No it wont say unit, it will specifically list torque possition sensor, so I don't think they've mis-lead you in that respect. Although to be honest, I'd have said replacing the whole unit complete (as has to be done anyway) is more preferable to it being taken appart to access said sensor and replace it, and then plonk it all back together.

And I take it replacing lock/key/code turns into an expensive affair too :shrug:

Replacing which lock

 

[JLP]

Oh just the door lock thats getting worked loose by the sticky key

 

[JLP]

Quick update. (or maybe not so quick) Emailed dealer last night, still ended up having to phone them again today. Salesman tried to get me to agree to the fix. I stood my ground. He insisted it was a minor issue with a sensor. I insisted it was a major issue that required a new steering column and that I would never have bought the car if I'd known such a defect was present. He insisted that the car did not have the fault when I bought it. I insisted that under the sale of goods act it would be assumed that the car did have the fault and it would be up to them to prove it didn't (which from what I've read would require them to produce an independent pre sale inspection report (any pre sale check list they carried out would not be considered as proof)) The discussion kind of went back and forth along those lines until he said he would have to speak to the sales manager.

An hour later he phoned back and the same ping pong conversation took place. At one point he asked me why I was trying to quote the law at him as I obviously didn't know anything about the law!!! At which point I told him I'm well versed in consumer law. Well versed enough to know I was within my rights and any reasonable time scale to reject the purchase.

By the end of that ping pong match (which was starting to get quite heated!) he went off again saying he needed to speak to the sales manager again and would get back to me this afternoon.

Meanwhile I phoned the consumer helpline, drafted a letter using their template and will be posting it recorded delivery first thing tomorrow, or today if there's time after they call back.

QUESTION: Does anyone know if it is likely that the ESP warning light would have been flashing intermitently at any stage before staying on permanently. I did notice the last time I got into the car it didn't come on until I drove off? Many thanks J

 

[jrkitching]

QUESTION: Does anyone know if it is likely that the ESP warning light would have been flashing intermitently at any stage before staying on permanently. I did notice the last time I got into the car it didn't come on until I drove off? Many thanks J

Yes, absolutely - this usually shows up first as an intermittent problem and I'd bet money the previous owner may have chosen to get rid of the car for this very reason.