General Steal of the decade...

[jrkitching]

Really there are only two parts that are 4x4 specific: the propshaft (and its bearing), and the reinforced under tray/sump guard.

Front and rear subframes are both different, and failures of both have featured on the forum in the past. Both are expensive and practically unobtainable in the UK.

Viscous couplings, though some may consider this to be part of the propshaft.

Depending on the model year, DMF fitment was 4x4 specific (these came later in the production run for some 2WD variants).

Any 4x4 specific trim parts could prove problematic, though this equally applies to most of the limited edition models.

Rotting rear suspension arm that cant be sourced would be my biggest concern.

Yes, rear subframe failure will almost certainly write the car off.

The rear subframe was substantially redesigned on later cars; these haven't been around for long enough yet to know how durable they will be in the long term.

Plus as said before, if you want 4x4, there are better cars for the job

That's true, but none of them can be bought for anywhere close to the price of a 4x4 Panda.

I'm worried now; could you send a link to the forum comments re suspension link?

Subframe Rot | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

My 07 4x4 Panda developed a knock under relatively low lateral forces when cornering. Looking underneath revealed the horror show in the photos. I think that's the subframe? So, is a new one, or one from a breaker, required? Are these 4x4 specific? Cheers

www.fiatforum.com

It's the tubular steel subframe itself that seems to be the biggest cause for concern. Whilst the chance of failure in the first ten years is likely remote, now that folks are keeping cars for longer, corrosion related issues are once again becoming more common. If I owned one of these, I'd want to try to get some sort of wax-based protection system into the tubular frame.

 

[Panda IIs]

Front and rear subframes are both different, and failures of both have featured on the forum in the past. Both are expensive and practically unobtainable in the UK.

Viscous couplings, though some may consider this to be part of the propshaft.

Depending on the model year, DMF fitment was 4x4 specific (these came later in the production run for some 2WD variants).

Any 4x4 specific trim parts could prove problematic, though this equally applies to most of the limited edition models.


Yes, rear subframe failure will almost certainly write the car off.

The rear subframe was substantially redesigned on later cars; these haven't been around for long enough yet to know how durable they will be in the long term.

That's true, but none of them can be bought for anywhere close to the price of a 4x4 Panda.

Subframe Rot | FIAT Panda (Mk3)

My 07 4x4 Panda developed a knock under relatively low lateral forces when cornering. Looking underneath revealed the horror show in the photos. I think that's the subframe? So, is a new one, or one from a breaker, required? Are these 4x4 specific? Cheers

www.fiatforum.com

I'm not going to pick this post apart but for balance we are in the 2012+ section, the latest Marque version of the 4x4 does not feature some of the items you list (viscous coupling for example). This link https://www.fiatforum.com/threads/subframe-rot.491850/ that you cite is for a 2007 version.

No doubt if you are including all years of the 4x4 back to Puch Styer Daimler technology you will find all sorts of examples of unobtainium! As a moderator I am surprised at your position! But hey the forum is for opinions and the expression of those.

 

[jrkitching]

but for balance we are in the 2012+ section

Good point. This thread has drifted somewhat.

 

[SB1500]

It's been fascinating to learn and read all the little things to take into account with the Panda 4x4. To me, one of the big appeals (without budget concern) of the Panda is the 4x4 or Cross model, that unique little difference. Same with the 500 or 595, the 'C' editions have that little feature on sunny days etc. The way I've looked at it, if I give up all the 'big car' comforts and conveniences, that's how I'd justify going back to a smaller boot, rougher ride etc.

Realistically though I've sort of (sadly) put the notion out of mind because of the huge loss I'd take on my Avensis. Issue being I've went out of my way to over-service it, use dealer parts and go a little OTT with replacing things just for the sheer satisfaction of knowing they're done (and also missing the regular jobs I did on my older Panda every other month - damn these newer cars and their new parts that won't need replaced for a while!!!) haha.

I've got to admit though, if anything happened and my car got written off tomorrow, I think I'd be right back looking at Fiat's and Abarths. There would be my excuse to go get one.. I'm sure I'd be paying through my teeth to get genuine parts (especially oils) that Fiat recommend making the small cars as pricy as some bigger ones but all in the name of enthusiasm.

What's more likely is, maybe Fiat will come out with something in the next 5-10 years - they're overdue another '2003 Panda' model to boost their business as they tend to do in a mad cycle over the last few decades. I'm not so sure I believe in the EV movement, but if it's hear to stay I'd certainly go for the newer 500 or equivalent Panda model replacement that's sure to copy it's tech and follow.

I'm really glad I got back into my account and back in the forum. The discussion on here is like nothing I've seen on any other forum really. Not going to lie, it's a strong part of why I want to buy another to be part of the community.

 

[Marcus Daly]

The way I've looked at it, if I give up all the 'big car' comforts and conveniences, that's how I'd justify going back to a smaller boot, rougher ride etc.

Just want to say the ride is surprisingly good in the Panda, especially in the 4x4. It benefits from unfashionably small wheels and chunky tyres, and feels very “expensively” damped. Hard to think of a car in that segment that rides better. It’s something I’m quite fussy about. FWIW, I can’t be doing with the current crop of cars with massive wheels and daft rubber band tyres that shake your fillings out.

 

[SB1500]

Just want to say the ride is surprisingly good in the Panda, especially in the 4x4. It benefits from unfashionably small wheels and chunky tyres, and feels very “expensively” damped. Hard to think of a car in that segment that rides better. It’s something I’m quite fussy about. FWIW, I can’t be doing with the current crop of cars with massive wheels and daft rubber band tyres that shake your fillings out.

When I traded mine in for my DS 3 , I was given my Panda back as a courtesy car. And I was blown away by how much more comfortable it was over speed bumps definitely not a fan of the huge alloys either or the £130 a tyre it cost versus my Panda at the time

 

[The Panda Nut]

Mine’s coming up on three years and has needed nothing but an annual service. Barely clocked 12000 miles in that time, however, so hard to form a real opinion of reliability. The next three years will be a better test. I’ve toyed with the idea of chucking it in against something else (particularly as I no longer need a 4x4), but to my surprise I’ve rather fallen for the daft little thing and can’t see anything I’d rather have. I had no love for Fiats previously, and bought it for very specific functional reason, but it’s proved to be such a charming car I’m happy to keep it for as long as it’s trouble-free.

Same experiences so far four years nothing to do except smile.

 

[The Panda Nut]

Just want to say the ride is surprisingly good in the Panda, especially in the 4x4. It benefits from unfashionably small wheels and chunky tyres, and feels very “expensively” damped. Hard to think of a car in that segment that rides better. It’s something I’m quite fussy about. FWIW, I can’t be doing with the current crop of cars with massive wheels and daft rubber band tyres that shake your fillings out.

Boy do I agree with all you said, but if you like spending silly money on tyres and can still afford to eat afterwards then good luck. Panda 4x4 has an excellent ride by any standards and long runs are not issue. Tyre and brake wear is very good and while economy is less than say the 1.2 Panda 2WD the 4x4 is a heck of a lot faster so you can balance economy by educing speed.
If I could fit a Tardis boot extension and have a full sized spare wheel, that would be nice, but roof bars have handled all the big items so far and sticking a trailer on the back has no noticable affect on performance in normal road use either.
The only draw back to the 4x4 is the sense of superiority to all other vehicle which are either to expensive, to big, to much to and insure or just plain boring. People who drive these super fast and super heavy cars are looking ever so slowly more and more silly and even worse for the environment. I am already thinking of how to convert the Panda to electric power when the motors life is up. For the lanes of Norfolk this car is ideal for people without regular family outings to cater to.
I am happy to know that if the weather turns bad in the winter I will get home, and that I can get to family if required.

 

[SB1500]

Well folks, few weeks on. Managed to get this notion out of my mind. The Avensis is a great car. Doing me nothing but well so far. But if anything happened it tomorrow, next week or next year etc, I'd be coming back to the Panda one way or another. And if all goes well in Toyota-land, I think in a few years 2-3, I'll maybe go out and buy myself a Panda - should the notion still persist (and three years after selling mine, it does...). I read today that there's a new 4x4 x 40˚ version coming, meaning revival of the 4x4 to some extent - and a bit of an extension of life for the current model.

Every time I see one on the road, usually a Pop model - or any variant of the 500 - it makes me smile. And there's something to be said for that, truly. There is no shortage of prestige, ultra-high end cars, cutting edge EVs and even the odd supercar on the road on any long trip. Yet the Panda stuck in traffic of the 500 with poor lane discipline, being driven by a 6ft plus guy that barely fits in or whoever owns it ... I've seen every type of person in a Panda and 500 alike. I think I'm finally past my caring of what people think.

I think this is the smart way to go. Without jumping back too early and making a loss and without giving up the desire to own one altogether forever.

In the final stages of interviews for a degree apprenticeship at my long term place of employment. If I get that, and manage to pass it in a couple of years, I think that would be a sufficient excuse to make a change and drop some serious money (if need be) to get a nice Panda. From that point onward money shouldn't be a concern much anymore at all, but that won't change the love of simple motoring and seeing through the hype of expensive, flashy show-off cars that keep you up at night stressing. I think I lost a lot of my priorities gained over my time as a Fiat owner in the last couple of years, at least now to come back, I know I'm not missing anything on the other side. I will post updates if any happen

 

[vexorg]

Well folks, few weeks on. Managed to get this notion out of my mind. The Avensis is a great car. Doing me nothing but well so far. But if anything happened it tomorrow, next week or next year etc, I'd be coming back to the Panda one way or another.

Car's know when you are thinking of getting rid of them and will behave perfectly. Then once you are committed to stick with them they will start to play up.

(though never heard anyone say the term "great car" for the avensis - how a company can for from mr2/celica/supra to avensis confused me no end)

 

[jrkitching]

though never heard anyone say the term "great car" for the avensis

You have now.

It's a great car for the OP because it's reliable, it meets their needs, and it fits their budget.

 

[porta]

Car's know when you are thinking of getting rid of them and will behave perfectly. Then once you are committed to stick with them they will start to play up.

(though never heard anyone say the term "great car" for the avensis - how a company can for from mr2/celica/supra to avensis confused me no end)

To be fair, Fiats had its fair share of sublime to sub-par, look at the regatta (regreta as we used to call it)

 

[Leroypanda]

Is worth buying a newer Panda?
Mine 2013 pop and while id like something newer it does seem much of the same even if I went waze or hybrid?

 

[porta]

Personally, I like the twinair
Pity there isn’t a more modern panda100 iteration

 

[Marcus Daly]

Cheapest Pandas now are well north of £15K, which is absurd. Especially given that you have to have that wretched fake-"hybrid" engine.

 

[Bonefish Blues]

Cheapest Pandas now are well north of £15K, which is absurd. Especially given that you have to have that wretched fake-"hybrid" engine.

I was reading that you have to coast as much as possible at low speeds to get any benefit whatsoever. Sounds rubbish.

 

[porta]

I was reading that you have to coast as much as possible at low speeds to get any benefit whatsoever. Sounds rubbish.

Like one of the posters on here earlier, a friend came back from Spain and had a panda hybrid (drives a VW up over here) said he was surprised how well it was, in build quality and handling but hated the ‘dead feel’ of the engine. So I let him drive the twinair, he’s jealous!

 

[vexorg]

I was never a fan of hybrids, but do quite like the juke hybrid system. The motor side of it is about 55bhp so can manage without the petrol side if enough charge. Can use electric or petrol independently and very seamless at switching config when it needs to.
That's what I expect from a hybrid, I'd be feeling really conned at what fiat offer.

 

[rmjbn1]

Is worth buying a newer Panda?
Mine 2013 pop and while id like something newer it does seem much of the same even if I went waze or hybrid?

I recently spent a week with the *cough* 'hybrid' 500 (1.0 three cylinder naturally aspirated) and I far prefer the 1.2
I suspect the mild hybrid is aimed purely at urban drivers - I suppose it could in theory lower consumption and emissions if you're prepared to knock it into neutral every time you're going less than 30kph to turn the engine off. Hmm.
Out of town, you have to work it pretty hard, it has hardly any torque.
And if its tiny 10.8V lithium battery provides any meaningful power to the engine through the Belt Starter Generator, I'd be amazed. Couldn't feel a thing. Maybe it would be even more gutless without it?
The overall build quality felt like a step up, much quieter inside than my 169 Panda. But the steering and clutch were too light for my liking. I even checked City mode wasn't on a couple of times.
Average fuel consumption on the computer was showing as 6l/100km (47mpg). OK it was a hire car, but not great for a 500.
I just ended up wishing I had the old 1.2. I know it's no rocket ship, but I really think it has remarkably good torque for a small engine and suits the car perfectly.

 

[varesecrazy]

I have the 69hp flavour 1.2 , find it pretty lacking.. that mpg isnt far wide of mine.. and on hills its poor ( always looking for an ECO button to turn off.. unfortunately this is 'full power')

Not tried the 3cyl firefly.. but of course without the turbo..and any 1.0 will feel flat