Tuning Stance+ coilovers constantly on bump stops

[hoqq]

Hello everyone!

New here, I have decided a Fiat Panda 169 1.2 Dynamic was a good option for a first car, and so far been loving it.

When I brought the car, it came with Stance+ coilovers, and I decided to fit them as the stock suspension was on its last legs anyway (rear shocks were toast).
It's made the drive alot stiffer, but very very bumpy. Now when I put it all together, I chucked the normal bump stops back on without shortening them, I've realised now that was a mistake. It does say on the website for Stance+ that bump stops may need to be shortened.

I was just wondering if anyone has an idea on how much I should shorten the bump stops? Or to remove them all together as I've heard some people say?

I will also have to mess with the ride height either way as the previous owner set them to the lowest possible height and I never bothered adjusting it.

Cheers for the help

 

[koalar]

Seeing as theres been no answer

Fiat do a lot of development

So the car works and is safe in all conditions

fast Cornering , slow cornering, dry, wet, smooth, rough, one small driver, 4 large people and boot full, towing, accerating, braking, empty fuel tank or full and so on

The spring rates are finely tuned, and are even different depending if the car has the extra weight of the aircon

The. Bumpstops are not just bumpstops but are another spring, the steel springs are soft, and when the car is loaded the bumpstops become a secondary stiffer spring.


There is a lot of misinformation on the Internet and online sellers shops. The 100HP bumpstops are not the same as the standard ones. They are around 15mm smaller and constructed completely differently. They are often replaced with standard 500 bumpstops then either junked or coupe fitted to fix a self induced problem

Cars often preform poorly due to a mismatch of components

If you really want to lower the car. Using the 100HP spring rates, ride height and bumpstops would be a good start

Or stick with the standard setup

 

[bugsymike]

I tend to agree with @koalar , unless you are only concerned with how it looks and not day to day driving over speed bumps etc. then the factory standard setup is best. If racing on a smooth track then low is good, but for general road use a reasonable amount of suspension travel is important.
I suspect after you have driven with it low for a few weeks on the poor roads we have today you will soon tire of it.
I have no knowledge of Stance+ coilovers but having worked on customers cars in the past with some make of coil overs they were happy to revert to factory suspension.
Don't get me wrong some cars look really good lowered, but having driven them none have made me want to travel any distance in them.

 

[irc]

Not sure if they were Stance+ coilovers or some other brand, but I was asked to revert the suspension on a 100hp back to standard a while back. I had to pass on the job because I was busy with other work, but apparently it was nearly undriveable. I gave the new owner a list of parts and the names of a couple of reliable mechanics and he got the work done.
Apparently he's still solving rattling trim panels and other problems related to the car's time on the "uprated" suspension...

 

[bugsymike]

The OP mentions at the beginning that the car came with the "coil overs" and as the rear shock absorbers were worn he fitted these parts, does that mean the previous owner decided it was not a very good conversion and reverted to the original set up, or simply had not got around to fitting the "coil overs"?
Re leaving the bump stops off altogether that the OP mentioned, it may be worth pointing out that to do so would be an MOT failure.
Around my area there are loads of speed bumps around, many times I have watched good looking lowered cars having to slow almost to a stop to navigate or weave around these obstructions, even to the point where some have caught their nice alloy wheels on the kerb, where as the 3.5 tonne van following them easily straddles the speed bump and could do so at twice the speed, much in the same way they were designed for ambulances etc. to do.
Perhaps the best thing would be for the OP to run the vehicle for a few weeks with the modifications to see if he supports the views of those of us who have contributed to the discussion or is happy with the way the car looks and drives.
As he mentions it is at the lowest setting, he may try a compromise and lift it a bit to try and get the best of both Worlds.

 

[irc]

Absolutely (although insurance company should be informed, etc.).
Not judging at all - OP may well live in one of the few parts of the country with smooth roads and few speed bumps. And any type of new damper is likely to be an improvement on one which no longer has any effect. However, Pandas are well known for creaking plastics, rattling radios, etc. so anything which makes the ride harsher will probably shake some things loose over time.

My personal feeling is that a Panda probably handles best as it was originally intended. With such a simple set-up and limited scope for adjustment, it is quite a challenge to make an aftermarket set up which handles better AND is comfortable. With advanced multi-link camber/castor adjustable sports suspension there are many more options.
(I also find the more comfortable suspension on my 1.3 multijet is actually as "fast" as the bog-standard suspension on my 100hp on most roads near where I live. Mostly because of the state of the roads...)

 

[hoqq]

The OP mentions at the beginning that the car came with the "coil overs" and as the rear shock absorbers were worn he fitted these parts, does that mean the previous owner decided it was not a very good conversion and reverted to the original set up, or simply had not got around to fitting the "coil overs"?
Re leaving the bump stops off altogether that the OP mentioned, it may be worth pointing out that to do so would be an MOT failure.
Around my area there are loads of speed bumps around, many times I have watched good looking lowered cars having to slow almost to a stop to navigate or weave around these obstructions, even to the point where some have caught their nice alloy wheels on the kerb, where as the 3.5 tonne van following them easily straddles the speed bump and could do so at twice the speed, much in the same way they were designed for ambulances etc. to do.
Perhaps the best thing would be for the OP to run the vehicle for a few weeks with the modifications to see if he supports the views of those of us who have contributed to the discussion or is happy with the way the car looks and drives.
As he mentions it is at the lowest setting, he may try a compromise and lift it a bit to try and get the best of both Worlds.

Hello bugsymike,

The previous owner had these coilovers fitted and was quite happy with how it drove, but when it was coming to selling it he refitted the stock suspension as his plan was to sell the car separate to the coilovers, but when I ended up buying the Panda from him, he sold me the coilovers as well. He was mainly only trying to go for looks, trying to make it as low as possible and make it look good.

I'm happy with how the car handles, I really don't mind having stiffer suspension and having to slow down for speed bumps and such, I just wanted to adjust the coilovers to a setting where the suspension actually does something instead of them constantly being on bump stops.

With this post, I was just trying to see if anyone has done something similar and has an idea of how much I should shorten the bump stops, to keep the drive stiff but also have enough suspension to where the car isn't bouncing around .

Thanks for your reply

 

[hoqq]

Absolutely (although insurance company should be informed, etc.).
Not judging at all - OP may well live in one of the few parts of the country with smooth roads and few speed bumps. And any type of new damper is likely to be an improvement on one which no longer has any effect. However, Pandas are well known for creaking plastics, rattling radios, etc. so anything which makes the ride harsher will probably shake some things loose over time.

My personal feeling is that a Panda probably handles best as it was originally intended. With such a simple set-up and limited scope for adjustment, it is quite a challenge to make an aftermarket set up which handles better AND is comfortable. With advanced multi-link camber/castor adjustable sports suspension there are many more options.
(I also find the more comfortable suspension on my 1.3 multijet is actually as "fast" as the bog-standard suspension on my 100hp on most roads near where I live. Mostly because of the state of the roads...)

Hello irc,

Insurance will be informed, don't worry about that.

Where I live, it really depends where you drive if you want smooth roads, or complete pothole hell.

Reverting to stock suspension, or changing it to the 100HP suspension can always be an option, I'm just trying to make these coilovers work to the best of their abilites as I already had them and they're on the car now. I still have the stocks suspension, so if worst comes to worst, I get a few friends around and we chuck the old suspension on (with new shocks of course) in a day.

In terms of the creaks and rattles etc.. the person who owned it before drove it on the suspension as it is now for 10k+ miles and had no issues, and it still hasn't got any, plus if it does develop something, I do have a friend with a ramp so hopefully we'd be able to find the issue.

I don't mind the drive being stiff, I just want the coilovers to not be constantly on the bump stops, that's why I'm trying to figure out a way to make it not so bumpy

Thanks for the reply

 

[hoqq]

Seeing as theres been no answer

Fiat do a lot of development

So the car works and is safe in all conditions

fast Cornering , slow cornering, dry, wet, smooth, rough, one small driver, 4 large people and boot full, towing, accerating, braking, empty fuel tank or full and so on

The spring rates are finely tuned, and are even different depending if the car has the extra weight of the aircon

The. Bumpstops are not just bumpstops but are another spring, the steel springs are soft, and when the car is loaded the bumpstops become a secondary stiffer spring.


There is a lot of misinformation on the Internet and online sellers shops. The 100HP bumpstops are not the same as the standard ones. They are around 15mm smaller and constructed completely differently. They are often replaced with standard 500 bumpstops then either junked or coupe fitted to fix a self induced problem

Cars often preform poorly due to a mismatch of components

If you really want to lower the car. Using the 100HP spring rates, ride height and bumpstops would be a good start

Or stick with the standard setup

Hello koalar,

I understand your point about the stock suspension being developed for the car etc.. but as I said, I put these coilovers on as they came with the car, and some componenets of the stock suspension were unusuable, so I'm just trying out a way to make these coilovers function as well as they can . And of course as I have just said in one of the replies, worst comes to worst I can just revert to the stock suspension (with the broken parts replaced).

Thank you for the note about bumpstops, I'm still learning how everything operates so thank you for that information.

Also thank you for the recommendation about the 100hp suspension components, that could be a good avenue to explore if I can't make the car handle how I want it to with these coilovers.

Many thanks

 

[bugsymike]

Hello bugsymike,

The previous owner had these coilovers fitted and was quite happy with how it drove, but when it was coming to selling it he refitted the stock suspension as his plan was to sell the car separate to the coilovers, but when I ended up buying the Panda from him, he sold me the coilovers as well. He was mainly only trying to go for looks, trying to make it as low as possible and make it look good.

I'm happy with how the car handles, I really don't mind having stiffer suspension and having to slow down for speed bumps and such, I just wanted to adjust the coilovers to a setting where the suspension actually does something instead of them constantly being on bump stops.

With this post, I was just trying to see if anyone has done something similar and has an idea of how much I should shorten the bump stops, to keep the drive stiff but also have enough suspension to where the car isn't bouncing around .

Thanks for your reply

Hi @hoqq ,
Thanks for your reply, I can see you have a good idea of what you are after.
As a compromise may I suggest a small rise in the height adjustment to allow some suspension movement, along with the "progressive bump stops" that start to take some of the loading earlier, with the intention that it will keep the looks whilst allowing the suspension to be firm but not solid.
Is there adjustment on the shock absorber side of your coil overs, maybe to firm it up a little so that when you go over a bump it doesn't go straight to the bump stops.
Many years ago as a teenager I raced Karts at speeds around 100mph, in those days it was on airfields and one time at Thruxton Racing Circuit, these had no suspension at all so a very hard ride and thoroughly enjoyed it although never good enough to win. Nowadays I enjoy softer suspension.
Another thought on the ride is tyre profiles/aspect ratio, several owners on Forum have found the low profile tyre were too stiff for their use but that higher profile tyres were more forgiving, but in your case different wheel diameter and tyre profile may get the look you want but in the opposite direction, providing it doesn't cause fouling with the wheel arches on full lock etc.

 

[koalar]

I don't know what to suggest, what you want just isn't possible, the springs are 30% stiffer. The dampers are stiffer and there is little weight over the rear wheels

The 100HP was roughly the same springs but riding mainly on special bumpstops. But it also had a harsh ride from factory

so the spring rate could be further reduced to improve the ride the suspension on the 500 was upgraded in 2009 to include a anti roll bar as standard

We never got this upgrade


Here's mine, just me sitting in the rear and nobody in the rear

Which is almost already using the secondary springs of the bumpstops

Just upgrading the shocks from OEM to Bilstein B4 will make a noticeable difference with the rear more bouncy

Examining the Fiat 500's Suspension

Number 1 source for Fiat 500, 500e electric, and 500 Abarth information in the U.S. It's all here. Fiat news, info, how to's and much more!

www.fiat500usa.com

 

[koalar]

These are the original rear ride heights

 

[RayovacWorkhorse]

Seen confirmed reports of Fiat Coupe bump stops fitting the 169 (febi PN 36979), these are a bit shorter and allow for the lower ride height. Personally I've got my Panda on KYB Excel-Gs (o.e spec) with stock springs and it rides much better than the standard dampers, however that may have been because mine were ruined (original units lasted 58,000 on the front)!

Edit: Here's what you want https://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/234680842923