Technical Speedo not working sensor not available

[PeterBold]

Hello I'm a newbie...
The speedo on my Ducato based motorhome has stopped working. Initially it was jumping around and then after about 100 miles stopped completely (we were on holiday in France). Odometer also not working. My local garage said to ask transmission specialist who said it was almost certainly the sensor, and that they were no longer made, and not available from any dealer. He said the parts were 9643631380 and 9643631280. What can I do? Thanks,.

 

[Communicator]

Hello I'm a newbie...
The speedo on my Ducato based motorhome has stopped working. Initially it was jumping around and then after about 100 miles stopped completely (we were on holiday in France). Odometer also not working. My local garage said to ask transmission specialist who said it was almost certainly the sensor, and that they were no longer made, and not available from any dealer. He said the parts were 9643631380 and 9643631280. What can I do? Thanks,.

2006 waa a model changeover year. In order that others are aware of the particular Ducato model under discussion, please supply model number which is represented by the first three numbers of the VIN. i.e. ZFA244, or ZFA250. The 244 has almost rectangular headlights, while the 250 has a slanted headlights. There are very significant differences between the 244, and later models.

 

[PeterBold]

Its a ZFA244
Thanks

 

[Communicator]

Its a ZFA244
Thanks

Sorry Peter,I should have enquired as to which engine, but that is less important.

 

[PeterBold]

2.0 Diesel, 84BhP

 

[Communicator]

@PeterBold, the compamy "Coastal Motorhomes" have a good reputation for supplying parts for older vehicles, and give advice regarding compatability.

Alternatively Ebay is a useful source. With a 244, may I suggest when searching, you quote vehicle year as 2005. This avoids confusion with the later 250 model.

My PVC is a 244 2.8jtd. I am attaching photos of the appropriate area

Edit
Your 2.0 engine will be different, but I am not aware of any differences in the gearbox assembly except for different gear ratios. If you have 16" road wheels, which are not common, then things could be different. I have not checked specifically for any differences.

 

[FreeSpirit]

As far as I know these Transducers are all the same for numerous Fiat vehicles. They are available on ebay - for around 12 GBP. see link below - Ebay
eBay item number:113007779759 - Gearbox Speedo Sensor for Fiat Ducato & there are other listings as well'

Pardon our interruption...

Also you should/must read my previous post #4 in this thread on the subject in this link. as to the possible pitfalls of replacing the sensor -

Erratic Speedo | FIAT Ducato

I've done a search but can't find anyone with the same problem as me, only non working speedo etc. Anyhow I have a 2006 X244 2.8JTD Ducato and the as the title suggests the speedo is working along with the odometer but once the needle goes above 30mph it starts jumping up and down between 40mph...

www.fiatforum.com

Cheers

 

[Communicator]

As far as I know these Transducers are all the same for numerous Fiat vehicles. They are available on ebay - for around 12 GBP. see link below - Ebay
eBay item number:113007779759 - Gearbox Speedo Sensor for Fiat Ducato & there are other listings as well'

Pardon our interruption...

Also you should/must read my previous post #4 in this thread on the subject in this link. as to the possible pitfalls of replacing the sensor -

Erratic Speedo | FIAT Ducato

I've done a search but can't find anyone with the same problem as me, only non working speedo etc. Anyhow I have a 2006 X244 2.8JTD Ducato and the as the title suggests the speedo is working along with the odometer but once the needle goes above 30mph it starts jumping up and down between 40mph...

www.fiatforum.com

Cheers

Yes, I have not had to change the sensor but this translation of an extract fom the Italian Camperonline forum sticks in my mind .

"The trick is to put on the head of the shaft, where it is inserted in the plastic support of the "meter", a nice finger of grease for gears, the thick one .. this will act as a brake (suction cup effect) when the shaft in question falls, without compromising in any way its functionality and safety."

Also worth noting that the fixing bolt is M7, which is not a common size. Probable spanner size would be 11mm.

 

[bugsymike]

Just going to stick my nose in
I see in my Auto Data Manual it list a 84hp engine Fiat Ducato 02-06 with an RHV engine, this is a Peugeot engine so you may find gearbox is related and in which case a Peuget saloon (possibly a 407 model) with that engine may use the sensor you require.
Obviously check before ordering or have a ferret around scrapyards, there may still be some about. Recently I nearly bought a similar Peugeot 407 with the more powerfull 120hp RHK engine for a 2010 Fiat Scudo that uses the same engine.
It may list the RHV number on your chassis/vin plate under Engine Series.
I am guessing that your RHV is the 8 valve engine at 84Hp unlike the similar RHK 16 valve 120Hp that was in my Scudo.

 

[Communicator]

Just going to stick my nose in
I see in my Auto Data Manual it list a 84hp engine Fiat Ducato 02-06 with an RHV engine, this is a Peugeot engine so you may find gearbox is related and in which case a Peuget saloon (possibly a 407 model) with that engine may use the sensor you require.
Obviously check before ordering or have a ferret around scrapyards, there may still be some about. Recently I nearly bought a similar Peugeot 407 with the more powerfull 120hp RHK engine for a 2010 Fiat Scudo that uses the same engine.
It may list the RHV number on your chassis/vin plate under Engine Series.
I am guessing that your RHV is the 8 valve engine at 84Hp unlike the similar RHK 16 valve 120Hp that was in my Scudo.

Mike, I hope that's a tongue in cheek smiley. This is a forum, which to me means that all positive, helpful, or corrective comments should be welcome.

 

[bugsymike]

Mike, I hope that's a tongue in cheek smiley. This is a forum, which to me means that all positive, helpful, or corrective comments should be welcome.

We do our best eh! Not being a mobile phone user even this level of emoji is stretching my skills.
Hopefully OPs Engine Series number will give us more detail.

 

[PeterBold]

Thanks for the replies. The transmission specialist I spoke to said that it was almost certainly parts 2 and 3 in the diagram that I needed. Part no 1 seems readily available but not the gears. I've tried Coastal motor homes, and they don't seem to have them:

2	9643631280​	GEAR 27X21		01
3	9643631380​	GEAR 27X21		01

 

[bugsymike]

Engine Series number will give us more detail.???

 

[AsdaPricey]

Hello @PeterBold

Is this any use?

 

[lycopersicum]

Hello @PeterBold

Is this any use?

Same seller seems to have the other part too.

 

[FreeSpirit]

Hi Peter I think you will find that it is the sensor that has failed as your description of the symptoms of what you have said are exactly what happened to my X244 & replacing the sensor is what fixed the problem. It started with the speedo needle swinging wildly then not working at all to then springing back to life again numerous times only to eventually fail completely.
The parts you described as No. 2 in the diagram (the pinion) will if you read my previous post linked above & will come out with the sensor WITH EXTREME CAUTION as for No. 3 listed in the diagram it will require the disassembly of the gearbox to replace it! Both are metal & unlikely to wear out being immersed in oil so if broken where has the metal parts gone - into the final drive!!
As the sensor is relatively cheap & as the pinion & drive are not available I would be trying that first, what other options are there?
Quote from my link above if case you haven't read it -
"Reasonably easy to replace, - disconnect the wiring connector & remove the bolt holding the transducer, making sure you don't loose that & the thin washer.
Now comes the DANGEROUS part, with extreme caution lift the transducer straight up until the METAL pinion is clear of the hole. The pinion is only held in place by oil suction to the transducer assembly, so any bumps on the side of the gearbox or sudden movement whilst removing or replacing could cause it to drop into the diff assembly, there's also a thin steel washer between the metal pinion & the bottom of the transducer, No. 6 in the diagram so another thing to watch when removing & also replacing the sensor & pinion back straight down.
If it does drop into the diff housing with luck you will need a strong magnetic pickup tool to get it out !!! ( if that happens don't forget to check that the thin metal washer didn't go with it) "
Good luck & let us know how it went
Cheers

 

[bugsymike]

Hi Peter I think you will find that it is the sensor that has failed as your description of the symptoms of what you have said are exactly what happened to my X244 & replacing the sensor is what fixed the problem. It started with the speedo needle swinging wildly then not working at all to then springing back to life again numerous times only to eventually fail completely.
The parts you described as No. 2 in the diagram (the pinion) will if you read my previous post linked above & will come out with the sensor WITH EXTREME CAUTION as for No. 3 listed in the diagram it will require the disassembly of the gearbox to replace it! Both are metal & unlikely to wear out being immersed in oil so if broken where has the metal parts gone - into the final drive!!
As the sensor is relatively cheap & as the pinion & drive are not available I would be trying that first, what other options are there?
Quote from my link above if case you haven't read it -
"Reasonably easy to replace, - disconnect the wiring connector & remove the bolt holding the transducer, making sure you don't loose that & the thin washer.
Now comes the DANGEROUS part, with extreme caution lift the transducer straight up until the METAL pinion is clear of the hole. The pinion is only held in place by oil suction to the transducer assembly, so any bumps on the side of the gearbox or sudden movement whilst removing or replacing could cause it to drop into the diff assembly, there's also a thin steel washer between the metal pinion & the bottom of the transducer, No. 6 in the diagram so another thing to watch when removing & also replacing the sensor & pinion back straight down.
If it does drop into the diff housing with luck you will need a strong magnetic pickup tool to get it out !!! ( if that happens don't forget to check that the thin metal washer didn't go with it) "
Good luck & let us know how it went
Cheers

100% agree with your comments, especially the bit about the drive inside the gearbox, unlikely to wear, but if so it is pretty terminal as usualy from experience on other makes, Ford in particular it starts with crown wheel and pinion bearing wear (diff) so as it develops excess wear the speedo drive goes out of mesh. You could sometimes feel it when car on ramp by checking for movement at the drive shafts where the come out of the diff housing.
Anyway hopefully the OPs problem is just the sensor.

 

[Communicator]

I am trying to understand why a transmission specialist suggest changing the drive gears, when changing the sensor is the forum consensus.
Perhaps it is possible that they confused the OP's vehicle with the earlier x230 model which did have a mechanically driven speedometer?