General Spare Wheels & Moaning Brakes

[Panda 4x4 TA Antarctica]

So - I took the Panda 4x4 in for it's service recently. I pointed out 2x things, which the dealer is yet to resolve:
1) Brakes - mine are intermittently "moaning" (many will have also experienced this). This is the second time the car has started doing this - once at ~4000miles ("fixed" by cleaning out the brakes) and it has been becoming more of an issue since it passed 8000miles. It's intermittent by nature, they said they couldn't replicate, but are "looking into" the weighted mounting bolt mod that we all now know exists. <sigh!>
2) Spare Wheel - guess what, they supplied it with the short (non-4x4) jack and 135/80 R14 space-saver spare. Even though this was a nearly-new vehicle, they did supply it both new and through their approved-used scheme - to my mind, they should supply it with a working puncture repair solution - even if it is the standard "gunk" and inflation kit. The dealer is insistent that it should be a 135/80 R14 spare, but after getting somewhat annoyed and waving the 4x4 supplement that states it should be a 125/80 R15 at them, they are again "looking into it" with Fiat technical services. They do accept the jack will not lift the car!


The thing that has really irritated me is the shocking customer service - denying any issue until I have to "prove" otherwise - I've never experienced this with other franchises (Nissan, MINI, Ford) - why are they so difficult to deal with? Low purchase-price is not, to my way of thinking, an excuse in itself - they have a duty to ensure they are charging what is necessary to provide an acceptable level of service. Not naming-and-shaming (yet), but I'm going to be contacting Fiat directly if they don't get their act together. It's frustrating - such a great little car, but the after sales service is so variable between dealerships/franchises.


Grumble over! :0)

 

[oyumurtaci]

There's a technical bulletin out for the squealing rear brake issue, I loaded a pdf of the bulletin with the required parts numbers in the files section of the forum, and on the squealing brakes thread. The information might get you somewhere faster on that issue. As far as the spare wheel, you might want to look into local laws on the matter to see if they are obliged to rectify the situation in the first place (in the U.S., the law varies in different states, which is why some 500s there are legally obliged to come with a spare and some can be sold with a foam kit, and 500s sold in a state that requires a spare but with a repair kit must be rectified). If your local laws do indicate that the correct spare could be legally binding, you could have a "legal" conversation with the dealer about rectifying the situation in the legal time allowed. Threatening to sue the people who fiddle with important bits of your vehicle, however, is always a bit of a risk in so far as establishing the mutual trust required of such transactions (monetary or otherwise) could be. What I'm saying is that depending on the situation, you could threaten to sue them to make things right, but that may backfire down the road.

 

[Super Uwe]

So - I took the Panda 4x4 in for it's service recently. I pointed out 2x things, which the dealer is yet to resolve:
1) Brakes - mine are intermittently "moaning" (many will have also experienced this). This is the second time the car has started doing this - once at ~4000miles ("fixed" by cleaning out the brakes) and it has been becoming more of an issue since it passed 8000miles. It's intermittent by nature, they said they couldn't replicate, but are "looking into" the weighted mounting bolt mod that we all now know exists. <sigh!>
2) Spare Wheel - guess what, they supplied it with the short (non-4x4) jack and 135/80 R14 space-saver spare. Even though this was a nearly-new vehicle, they did supply it both new and through their approved-used scheme - to my mind, they should supply it with a working puncture repair solution - even if it is the standard "gunk" and inflation kit. The dealer is insistent that it should be a 135/80 R14 spare, but after getting somewhat annoyed and waving the 4x4 supplement that states it should be a 125/80 R15 at them, they are again "looking into it" with Fiat technical services. They do accept the jack will not lift the car!


The thing that has really irritated me is the shocking customer service - denying any issue until I have to "prove" otherwise - I've never experienced this with other franchises (Nissan, MINI, Ford) - why are they so difficult to deal with? Low purchase-price is not, to my way of thinking, an excuse in itself - they have a duty to ensure they are charging what is necessary to provide an acceptable level of service. Not naming-and-shaming (yet), but I'm going to be contacting Fiat directly if they don't get their act together. It's frustrating - such a great little car, but the after sales service is so variable between dealerships/franchises.


Grumble over! :0)

I think you are well within your rights to moan to be fair!

I have long given up on Fiat's after sales to be honest. I have no idea what their customer retention strategy is to be oerfectly honest; have been a customer for 7 years now and have never had any meaningful after sales correspondence.

Individual dealers can be great though, but as you say it can be such a mixed bag in terms of service.

It may be worth getting Fiat CS involved if you are not happy with the outcome with your dealer. At least then it is in the system and you will have a case ref number.

Other than that, I would check out the dealer locator on the Fiat UK website and search for service/warranty dealers nearby (or nearish!). Sometimes you will find their level of service is better as of course they aren't making money from new car sales.

 

[Panda 4x4 TA Antarctica]

A quick update:

Brakes: Dealer had a response from Fiat and parts are on order for the fix. At last!

Spare wheel: Dealer acknowledged they screwed-up and it shouldn't have the 135/80 14" space saver. They are replacing with the original fitment 'gunk & compressor' - at least that can be used, albeit not as good as having a space-saver (may look into getting a 15" separately.

As said previously, it's felt like a battle throughout - not what you'd expect from the dealership that sold you the car!

 

[deeyup]

A quick update:

Brakes: Dealer had a response from Fiat and parts are on order for the fix. At last!

Spare wheel: Dealer acknowledged they screwed-up and it shouldn't have the 135/80 14" space saver. They are replacing with the original fitment 'gunk & compressor' - at least that can be used, albeit not as good as having a space-saver (may look into getting a 15" separately.

As said previously, it's felt like a battle throughout - not what you'd expect from the dealership that sold you the car!

I know it's a bit late now, but here's a pic of my spare.

With regards to dealer battle, it seems most of us are in the same boat.
A fair few of us on here have to go through the same thing constantly.
The amount of times I've collected my car from service or warranty to be told "no fault found" is unreal!

Why we have to jump through hoops, argue with service reception staff and spend hours of our time going back and forth to dealers is baffling.
My car was serviced this week and I left it with a list of faults. Not one was fixed when I went to collect!

The third year warranty is a joke. Some dealers will charge you £75 diagnostic which is only refundable if they find a covered fault.
You can see why I'd be reluctant to leave a car and then to return to collect with the resulting "no fault found sir, £75 plus VAT please"

It's a massive shame because I love my Panda 4x4. Fiat and their appointed dealers totally let down the experience though.


As you were, Rant Over.

BTW, glad you've finally sorted your issues out

 

[R1NGA]

Although not wanting to further complicate matters, we must all be quite careful about using different size spare wheels (in lieu of of the spray-in goop) if we are to avoid potential transmission issues.

As Deeyup as pointed out, the 'real' size spare that Fiat seem to supply with the normal 4x4 (ie: NOT the Cross) is a 125/80R15 which has an overall diameter of 58cm (give or take the odd mm here or there). The stock 175/65R15 tyre has a value of 61cm, which is quite a significant difference and one that I remain unconvinced is truly safe to use, although if Fiat is 100% certain this is OK, then maybe.....

However, a 3cm difference in OD will make that spare run 5% faster than the wheel on the other side of the axle - that's quite a lot. I'd prefer the difference to be within 1cm in truth, as it's less likely to impact the electronics that control the faux differential action. 4WD best practice demands closely matched tyre tread depths ideally.

A much more accurately sized spare would require a 145/80R15, were such a size available. But as I said, if Fiat are really sure that a 5% difference in rolling radius (as the Americans call it) is within tolerance, then so be it.

For info, my spare is a 175/65R14 for some reason, which also has an OD of 58cm, so maybe there is an argument for believing it is acceptable to use....

..... but probably not on a Cross with their 185/65R15 tyres - these have a 62cm OD and therefore some 7% bigger than that 125/80R15 spare in Deeyup's car. Which might explain why Cross's don't come with spare wheels!

 

[oyumurtaci]

A roof basket with a set of four full size spares is beginning to look more and more appealing.

 

[gar074]

My brain hurts!

 

[chopsuk]

Oh dear, Fiat don't make it easy, do they?
After a puncture (nail) in a brand new 185/65 R15 all-season tyre, I found out that the Fix-and-go kits effectively wreck the tyre by preventing it from being repaired later.

Vospers here in Cornwall tell me that (for the '15 Panda Cross) there is no spare or space saver option, so one can't be ordered.

Ringa - I was interest to read your thoughts, which imply I should get a different diameter tyre for the Cross vs 4x4:
"As Deeyup as pointed out, the 'real' size spare that Fiat seem to supply with the normal 4x4 (ie: NOT the Cross) is a 125/80R15 which has an overall diameter of 58cm (give or take the odd mm here or there). The stock 175/65R15 tyre has a value of 61cm, which is quite a significant difference and one that I remain unconvinced is truly safe to use, although if Fiat is 100% certain this is OK, then maybe....."

Does anyone know what spare size would be safe for the Cross as a space saver, given the Cross' original 185/65 R15?

 

[R1NGA]

Oh dear, Fiat don't make it easy, do they?
After a puncture (nail) in a brand new 185/65 R15 all-season tyre, I found out that the Fix-and-go kits effectively wreck the tyre by preventing it from being repaired later.

Vospers here in Cornwall tell me that (for the '15 Panda Cross) there is no spare or space saver option, so one can't be ordered.

Ringa - I was interest to read your thoughts, which imply I should get a different diameter tyre for the Cross vs 4x4:
"As Deeyup as pointed out, the 'real' size spare that Fiat seem to supply with the normal 4x4 (ie: NOT the Cross) is a 125/80R15 which has an overall diameter of 58cm (give or take the odd mm here or there). The stock 175/65R15 tyre has a value of 61cm, which is quite a significant difference and one that I remain unconvinced is truly safe to use, although if Fiat is 100% certain this is OK, then maybe....."

Does anyone know what spare size would be safe for the Cross as a space saver, given the Cross' original 185/65 R15?

Fix&Go will get you out of trouble and the tyre MIGHT be fixable, but it sure does make a mess of things. The Fiat handbook says that the 4x4 system will 'see' the different rolling radius of a smaller space-saver tyre, but I would not like to do too many miles like that, even if the car does work it out.

If you want to get a true equivalent rolling radius spare, then a 165/80R14 would nicely match the Cross's 185/65R15 real wheel - and a 145/80R15 which would match to a 175/65R15 that the stock 4x4 has. In truth either of these would be fine for a 4x4/Cross, although it might not fit in the wheel well in the boot. I suspect that is actually what drives the 128/80R15 size choice that Fiat made, as it's more practical day to day.

I think someone needs to find a 145/80 or 165/80 R15 and offer it up to see how close it really is to fitting in the spare wheel hole!

 

[chopsuk]

thanks R1NGA, that'll be really useful for many people.
You're right - the tyre place I use said he wouldn't repair the latex'd tyre as it'd be a waste of time and money (I've had 2 new fronts in 2 weeks.. rough track with some old nails down it).
I'll arrange a spare wheel and report back what works in the Cross.