Sound system advice needed

[Sam92]

Ok thanks, right hes put together a alpine deal:

HU
Alpine CDE-112Ri CD Tuner
http://www.alpine-electronics.co.uk/products/product-singleview/cd-head-units/cde-112ri.html

Amp
PMX-F640 4 channel
http://www.alpine-electronics.co.uk/products/product-singleview/pmx-amplifiers/pmx-f640.html

Speakers
Front
SPG-13CS - 5-1/4" (13cm)
http://www.alpine-electronics.co.uk/products/product-singleview/type-g-speakers/spg-13cs.html

Sub
Alpine SBG-1044BR
http://www.alpine-electronics.co.uk/products/product-singleview/boxed-subwoofer-34/sbg-1044br.html

His price £444
my price i found with same parts £403.96


He said i can still have rears but with those specs only 2 rac outs on the hu, and 4 channel i dont think it could work without losing sound quality etc. The spec i listed earlier on with the jbl and vibe stuff and pioneer HU looks loads better than this.

This is what he said about cable: Cabeling is required to connect all together, We do a quality 8AWG wiring kit that has an RCA, Power cable and Speaker wire for £39,99 and an additional RCA for the sub would be required at £19.99 for a Quality cable.

Hes saying i only need 8 gauge but ive heard you need 4 gauge, can you tell me what gauge i would need for 600-700w? as i keep hearing different things

What do you think volxstu?

Also whats the difference between a jbl gto5355 and a 5355E?

 

[volxstu]

Its not a bad setup but its not the best for the money. The preouts only being 2v is quite concerning. Ideally you should be looking for 3v as a minimum.
Geting the right head unit is the important thing. If you get the right one it will come with you to any other car you buy and do you many years of good service.
Keeping that in mind i would suggest buying one with 3 RCA peouts, then it will still be of use if you decide to upgrade (i get the impression your going to get the buy ) I have my old Pioneer P88RS for sale but even without the Ipod adaptor it would take quite a bit of your budget lol.
http://www.pioneer.eu/uk/products/archive/DEH-P88RS/index.html

Just looking on CAD and i found this
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/pioneer-deh8300sd.html
Looks good to me. Nowhere near as good quality as my old one above but they are different beasts.

I still say going for a 2 amp setup is the way forward. You have plenty of room. Just mount them on the rear of the back seats. That way 1 amp is no less obtrusive than 2.

Wiring wise i cant recommend knukonceptz any higher. They are excellent value for money. As for Gauge. For around 700w RMS your going to need 4 gauge as i recommended the other day. Even if you didnt need 4 you do need to think ahead. If you change anything then you will need to upgrade the cable. Nobody likes pulling their car apart more than they need to. The difference in price is virtually non existent so may as well do it properly first time.

Again 13 cm speakers? You need 6 1/2" which is 17cm. 13s will be more difficult to install and have nowhere near the same impact as their 17 cm equivalent.

Well theres some food for thought for now lol. Ill dig out some links for stuff in your budget a bit later.

 

[Sam92]

Thats what i thought about the HU, with 2 outs it limits upgradebility, is that deh 8300 significantly better than the one i found?
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/pioneer-deh7300bt.html it also has 3 outs but not sure what voltage... dont mind paying a bit more on the HU like as you say its important.

So 4 gauge it is then, is knukonceptz high quality? as that guy said its important to get high quality wire.

Appreciate what you mean on the amps and will consider it.

Back down to speakers again, fed up with speakers now lol, i measured the stock speaker in the door panel and it was no bigger than 15cm (behind the grill) and it is screwed in, so how would 17's fit? do they just overlap more? and would the screws line up?

Also say i had a amp with 55w each channel @ 4ohms what would be the minimum RMS i should have on the speaker? 55w? I think im missing something here as ive just seen these http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/pioneer-tsa131ci.html just using them as a example they have a RMS of 35w, now what amp could use them without overstraining them? or blowing them? am i missing something? or do you actually need a amp which runs @ 35w?

As ive been strugling like hell to find over 50rms small speakers, then i found the vibes. But if i used 90rms vibes on a 55w a channel amp, will the speakers be underpowered and sound worse?

Those alpines he said are 65w rms so would they be better than the vibe liteair 5 at 45-90rms?

 

[volxstu]

If you have a pro to help you set up then speaker power ratings mean nothing. My midbass in the doors are rated 200w RMS each but I'm feeding them a clean signal and 400w RMS from the amp.
As long as the signal is clean (no clipping. Type amp clip or clipping into google) then speakers will take a lot more than their rated power. Undepowering speakers comes with a tendancy to try to get them louder than the rest of the system is capable Of doing cleanly. This is when speakers smoke.
Anyway. This highlights the next level of audio instalation. One way of minimising chances of weaknesses is to use 4 channels for your components. Normally with components both speakers connect to the amp on 1 channel of it. 1 channel for left. 1 for right.
But if you have 4 channels. Then you can run each of the 4 speakers on a channel of their own. This gives you much more controll. More controll means better sound and more volume.

Then there is the fact that you have something called a gain pot. Like I was saying about the preouts needing to be as high voltage as possible.
Hold up. Need a fag. Will finish in a mo.

 

[volxstu]

So anyway a signal is sent to the amp. Before I start you should know that the less an amp has to work the better quality sound it will produce.
The preamplifier inside the amp needs to for want of a better word to correct the received signal to amplify it to a level that the rest of the amp needs to give it's correct output wattage. If your head unit gives 2 volts then you will need to turn the gain dial on the amp to 2 volts to achieve the above. This is the point at which the amp is working it's hardest with a relatively clean signal therefore outputing a relatively clean one.
Now if your amp is much more powerful than you speakers and your head unit puts out say 5 volts you can start to make improvements. Now you would have to turn your amp up to 5v on the input sensitivity dial to make it work it's hardest cleanly. But you will notice I say that is when it is working it's hardest. If you don't have to turn the gain all the way to 2 only having to go as far as 5 then the preamp doesn't have to do as much to produce it's required power. This means it has less chance of sending bad signals to your speakers and you will here a better quality sound. Dont forget if your amp does 100w rms at this point and your speakers require 55 you then make even more improvments. If you set gain even higher say to 6 volts then it won't work as hard (which we now know is good) and out put around 70 watts RMS which is fine. This is the point that a sound system produces high quality sound effortlessly. It's that effortless sound that were looking for.

That said I'm a whack the gain as high as I can and blast the **** out of it when I'm on my own. :devil:

 

[Sam92]

Right thanks for that explanation, i think i understand more. The pioneer HU I posted is 2v so i need to turn the gain to 2v on the amp but should i get a higher voltage one?. If i were to get the 5 channel jbl, with 55w @ 4ohm per channel would those 45-90rms vibes be fine and have a clean signal? would the amp be working to much? if so what rms speakers would you recommend for 55w a channel amp?

sorry if youve answered this but i'll probably have to read what you said a few times

 

[volxstu]

I tried to Explain in a more understandable way than it actually works but then it gets harder to write lol.

Ideally you want around 60w RMS per speaker. I wouldn't buy anything less powerful than that. It's generally a safe rating. Less than that is either Uber high quality ( think £1000's) or just not that good.

 

[Sam92]

Ok thanks, apparently the speakers are 6.5" so any 60wrms or higher 6.5" will be fine? Whats the limit for speaker rms that you would recommend though? What about coaxial v component?

 

[volxstu]

The Sky is the limit. Its just things like Fly, Edge, Vibe and the lower end Fusion still lie about their RMS figures. Many will say their amps will do 100w RMS x4 when they just dont.
An amp of a reasonable manufacturer saying it does say 60x4 isnt trying to pretend its something its not. Its a mine field when it comes to car audio and you have to learn some initiative for products. If you do see something with different power rating as you have been doing just post it up here.

 

[Sam92]

ok thanks, it is a bloody huge minefield lol
right ive been looking for 6.5" front speakers and have found these 3:

Alpine SPG-17CS
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/alpine-spg-17cs.html
£84.99

Pioneer TS-A171Ci
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/pioneer-tsa171ci.html
£89.99

Vibe LiteAir 6
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/vibe-liteair-6.html
£79.99

But the trouble is the pioneer are 17cm and dont know the mounting depth, the alpines are 16.5cm which would fit better but i think there too deep, and the vibes will probably fit the best but question their quality. I think the rms is ok on all of them.

So what one would you recommend out of them? or have you got any suggestions? Cheers :yum:


Still dont know wether to go for component or coaxial as i dont know where i would put the tweeter..

 

[volxstu]

TBH if a pro installer is fitting everything then clearance wont matter. They will just make a baffle to bring the speaker out a bit further. A proper installer will do this no matter what

There are places for tweeters in the mirror covers or they are very easy too install in the a pillars.

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/focal-access-165-a1.html

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/hertz-dieci-dsk-165.html

http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/spl-dynamics-sd-6-2.html

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/9114.html

 

[Sam92]

ignore what i said about tweeters it has them stock above the mirror handle so i can stick em there. I want to keep original grills though you see so i think theres 49mm for depth clearance with them on. And the stock speakers are 16.5cm and theres no room for an extra .5 from what i can see.

So i need 16.5cm speakers with about 5cm for depth now those vibe airs 6 fit fine according to the stats but you say there not very good?? Ideally those pioneers would be nice due to the HU but i have no clue when it comes to reputable brands or sound quality.

EDIT just took my stock speaker out and that depth is about 50mm but from touching the window (wound down) to the edge of the mounting, its about 64mm, so i could go to about 55-60mm in depth of the speaker.

And those pioneers i posted actually are 166mm according to the dimensions and the depth should fit fine aswell so there a strong possibility.
Dunno why they say 17cm suppose because its over 16.5
Pioneer TS-A171Ci
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/pioneer-tsa171ci.html
£89.99

 

[Sam92]

Right ive decided on what i want and heres my final list:

HU
Pioneer DEH-6300SD
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/pioneer-deh6300sd.html
£104.99

Amp
JBL GTO5355
http://uk.jbl.com/jbl-product-detail-uk/gto5355e.html
£229.99

Speakers
FOR REAR
Alpine SPG-10C2
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/alpine-spg-10c2.html
£39.99

FRONT SPEAKERS
Pioneer TS-A171Ci
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/pioneer-tsa171ci.html
£89.99

Sub
JBL GT5-1204BR
http://uk.jbl.com/jbl-product-detail-uk/gt5-1204br.html
£94.99

Wire
FLI Audio AK4 4AWG
http://www.caraudiodirect.co.uk/fli-audio-ak4-4awg.html
£29.99

Total: £589.94

Decided the 6300sd looks better than the 8300 and prefer the screen, but its still got 3 4v rca outs. Decided on those pioneers as they got a decent review from this site (cant remember which).

I think this setup will suit me fine, but if you have any advice on the HU please say

 

[volxstu]

Hu looks fine to me

 

[Sam92]

kl thanks a lot for your help volxstu, it has been a big learning curb!

oh and i forgot to say i can get all that for £496.93 from different sites etc so i think thats a pretty good deal.

 

[volxstu]

Save yourself £50

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/8506.html

 

[Sam92]

Save yourself £50

http://caraudiosecurity.com/shop/product/products_id/8506.html

Thanks but i can get it for £166 on ebay btw is there any difference between the 5355 and 5355E?

 

[volxstu]

Wouldnt know TBH. Ebay wont have a warranty. Internet retailers dont carry warranty. Sites like caraudiodirect and caraudiosecurity have actual shops so can offer one.

 

[Sam92]

Ok do car audio security offer one as standard? It did say it has warranty on ebay
http://www.ebay.co.uk/itm/JBL-GTO5355E-5-MULTI-CHANNEL-CAR-AMP-AMPLIFIER-660W-/180714911974?pt=UK_AudioElectronicsVideo_Video_TelevisionSetTopBoxes&hash=item2a1372b8e6#ht_979wt_689

 

[volxstu]

Ask them how their warranty structure works because i dont believe they can offer a manufacturers one. If they say they do offer a manufacturers one then email JBL to find out.