Tuning Sluggish in 3rd gear

[Deemoandy]

Not sure if I’m over thinking this but panda is sluggish in 3rd gear up hills. Nothing to steep but drop down from 4th and there’s nothing there.. had new clutch, plugs, ht leads, crank case hose. Also had throttle housing off and cleaned it up and also air sensors, but still flat up hills.. is this normal or shall I move on to changing coil packs.. not had it long, had it cheap as a run around but was expecting more..

 

[koalar]

What are we call not too steep

On the flat will it drive fine in 4th at 30mph

I think we had an issue with an injector awhile back

1.1 is a bit small for steeper gradients

 

[Deemoandy]

Yeah injectors are fine now. Car runs fine normally.. I live In Cornwall so hills everywhere unfortunately.. I had. 2.0 insignia before so perhaps expecting too much.. but doing 50, hit a hill drop down to 3rd can’t maintain a constant speed and sometimes down to 2nd to get up the hill.

 

[rmjbn1]

Don't know where all the 1.1 owners are...

But this sounds the opposite of my experience with the 1.2
Soon after getting it I bombed up Whinlatter pass in the lakes all the way in 4th gear
Not the longest or steepest climb, but has a hairpin and ramps of over 10%
Was fully anticipating dropping a cog or two but she just kept on pulling, I was astonished
Superb torque characteristics in the 1.2
Then a fun fast descent the other side - I think that's when I properly fell in love with the little thing

Surely the 1.1 can't be that gutless in comparison?

 

[jrkitching]

Surely the 1.1 can't be that gutless in comparison?

I test drove the two side by side when these cars were new; the difference in performance, particularly in torque below 2500rpm, was most noticeable. The 1.2 was quite comfortable pulling away from 25mph in 5th; the 1.1 wasn't. Driving through a not particularly busy town with a 30mph speed limit, the 1.2 was way more comfortable to drive; the 1.1 needed a lot more gear changes and would soon have become tiresome for me.

I changed my order from a 1.1 to a 1.2 after that test drive, and have never looked back.

Taking a 1.1 over Whinlatter would definitely highlight the difference between the two. I'd not want to do a drive like that regularly in a 1.1, but a 1.2 would handle it easily.

 

[koalar]

Surely the 1.1 can't be that gutless in comparison?

I had both at the same time

1.1 2006 0-60 14.5 sec, 54bhp, 88Nm ish
1.2 2005 0-60 13.6 sec, 60bhp, 102Nm ish

You be hard pushed to tell which you we driving on the flat here in Cheshire, that's solo with 1/4 tank of fuel

Engine Dyno 1.1

Engine Dyno 1.2

Plus they are geared slightly differenty

Yes you are driving at an extra 200 RPM to achieve similar results but at the end of the day that nothing

I will have driven the 1.1 occasionally in the hills, it's a fair while back and don't really remember what it was like, I suspect not too bad as it's gone for my memory

There's a lot of variables, weight,. gradient, gear, speed

 

[koalar]

I had. 2.0 insignia before

300-400Nm vs the wee little pandas 88Nm

Yes it lighter

 

[irc]

I've got a 1.1 Active Eco as a spare car (its got knackered paint so is basically worthless to sell) and its fine in East Anglia! But what we call hills here are mostly more like road cambers in the rest of the country.
Would probably struggle a bit on long inclines, and it definitely needs gear changes in places where a1.2 doesn't.
And you really notice when there's 3 grown-up passengers in it. Or even a load of furniture on its way to the tip.

But... it's so ridiculously cheap to run (£35 tax, £115 insurance, 50+mpg) that its worth keeping around just in case its needed.

 

[Deemoandy]

Thanks guys.. looks like I’m expecting too much out of the little 1.1. However still happy with it as it gets me to work each day..

 

[Mike1alike]

is this normal or shall I move on to changing coil packs.

It's not normal. How old are the coil packs?
With TB, besides cleaning it do check the TPS. See if it reports the correct actual position.

 

[Deemoandy]

It's not normal. How old are the coil packs?
With TB, besides cleaning it do check the TPS. See if it reports the correct actual position.

Coil packs look original parts so as old as car. Forgive my ignorance what’s TPS

 

[Deemoandy]

Coil packs look original parts so as old as car. Forgive my ignorance what’s TPS

Just googled it.. how would I know if it’s in the correct position, I have no fault codes showing up..

 

[koalar]

It's not normal. How old are the coil packs?
With TB, besides cleaning it do check the TPS. See if it reports the correct actual position.

Coil packs either work or don't

Age is irrelevant

They usually out last the car as long as the HT has an easy enough path to ground

Having had 3 coil packs last 200,000 miles

The first symptoms is loss of power when hot

On the 1.1 you would loose two cylinders and the car will struggle on the flat and not be able to exit up the incline from a dual carriageway, let alone climb a hill

 

[Mike1alike]

You can measure the TPS signal voltage using a multimeter and monitor how it changes when you open the throttle flap and see if the voltage is steady, doesn't change by itself if you don't move the flap. The easiest way to check it is by using a diagnose tool. With that you read the data in the ECU, you can see there the 'Throttle opening' and compare it to the physical position, 0% when it's closed and increasing as you open it up. I've mentioned it because the sensor is an electronic device and it wears out or it can get damaged by cleaning fluids that can get to it while you're cleaning the TB.
But the problem - it is likely to be caused by weak spark. How old are the coils? Do you have any idea what milage have they been in service?

 

[koalar]

Just googled it.. how would I know if it’s in the correct position, I have no fault codes showing up..

You will not find an answer as TPS has many meanings

Tyre pressure sensor
Throttle pedal position sensor
Throttle position sensor

 

[Deemoandy]

You can measure the TPS signal voltage using a multimeter and monitor how it changes when you open the throttle flap and see if the voltage is steady, doesn't change by itself if you don't move the flap. The easiest way to check it is by using a diagnose tool. With that you read the data in the ECU, you can see there the 'Throttle opening' and compare it to the physical position, 0% when it's closed and increasing as you open it up. I've mentioned it because the sensor is an electronic device and it wears out or it can get damaged by cleaning fluids that can get to it while you're cleaning the TB.
But the problem - it is likely to be caused by weak spark. How old are the coils? Do you have any idea what milage have they been in service?

Nice one.. I’m on 76000 miles so I guess the coils are the same mileage.. i can get hold of a diagnostic tool so will check it out

 

[Mike1alike]

I meant the throttle positioning sensor, sorry for not being clear.

 

[Deemoandy]

I meant the throttle positioning sensor, sorry for not being clear.

No problem.. every day I’m learning

 

[koalar]

We need to asses if there is actually a problem

The original poster is going from a power 2 liter turbo diesel with plenty of torque

To a car with less than 1/4 the torque depending on the engine fitted to the insignia

 

[Deemoandy]

We need to asses if there is actually a problem

The original poster is going from a power 2 liter turbo diesel with plenty of torque

To a car with less than 1/4 the torque depending on the engine fitted to the insignia

That’s why I asked, not sure if it’s me.. however I would also say that my tick over drops now and then when stationary.. my daughter has 1.1 micra and flys up the same hills.. different cars different torque.. don’t know a lot about the panda but enjoying messing about and learning