Technical Replacing halogen bulbs with LED ones

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Technical Replacing halogen bulbs with LED ones

AnteLo

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So I bought some cheap H1 par of eBay and they suck. Does anybody has LED headlights bulbs in their Punto? If you do what bulbs did you use?
 

AndyRKett

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Not legal in the UK so hardly anyone will advise you on this.

Make sure its ok where you are to have them.

I know some major brands like Philips have started making replacement LED headlight bulbs which conform to the same standards as proper headlight bulbs, are direct replacements which keep the exact same beam patterns etc. These are expensive though, over £120.

There are a million cheap Chinese versions but there is no guaranty that they would work properly, last or give you the correct beam pattern.
 
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AnteLo

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Not legal in the UK so hardly anyone will advise you on this.

Make sure its ok where you are to have them.

I know some major brands like Philips have started making replacement LED headlight bulbs which conform to the same standards as proper headlight bulbs, are direct replacements which keep the exact same beam patterns etc. These are expensive though, over £120.

There are a million cheap Chinese versions but there is no guaranty that they would work properly, last or give you the correct beam pattern.
Jup I did a huge mistake by buying cheap LED bulbs, well **** it, I am going to get pair of Philips X-treme Vision (halogen) ones and hopefully they are as good as osram ones
 
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AnteLo

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Given the age of the car I'd check the lenses aront cloudy or the reflectors inside the lenses haven't started to corrode
I polished them and they are clear, need to apply clearcoat when it gets warmer
 
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The reflector shape is designed for the standard halogen bulb.
It is very difficult to make an LED bulb with the light source exactly the same size and position as the original halogen. An LED that size is probably not bright enough.
A larger LED will put lots of the extra light in the wrong place. You'll get brighter light, but not on the road where you want it. Oncoming traffic will not be happy with you.

If Philips are marketing a replacement, they'll have spent a lot of money on research, hence the high price. For Europe any replacement bulb needs to be 'E' marked to show compliance with regulations.

Most LED headlamp bulbs include a large heatsink, some with internal fans. On most headlamps that would mean leaving the rear of the lamp unsealed, allowing water in.

Keep the original lamps as clean as possible, buy the best 'normal' bulbs, replace annually as they lose their brightness, and just live with what you've got.
 
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AnteLo

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Your guides seem to be very well written, you should try translating it to English. That way it would get much more attention and it may help more people
 

kido resuri

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It's on the to-do list :) As plenty more other guides and stuff.

If only I had infinite time...
 

g8rpi

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Not legal in the UK so hardly anyone will advise you on this.

Make sure its ok where you are to have them.

I know some major brands like Philips have started making replacement LED headlight bulbs which conform to the same standards as proper headlight bulbs, are direct replacements which keep the exact same beam patterns etc. These are expensive though, over £120.

There are a million cheap Chinese versions but there is no guaranty that they would work properly, last or give you the correct beam pattern.

Do you have a link to any approved LED replacements for filament headlight bulbs?

I know you can get complete replacement lights that are E marked e.g. sealed beam replacements, but as there is no ECE regulation 37 standard for a LED "bulb" you can't get an E marked one. If this has changed I'd be interested to know.

Robert G8RPI.
 

AndyRKett

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Do you have a link to any approved LED replacements for filament headlight bulbs?

I know you can get complete replacement lights that are E marked e.g. sealed beam replacements, but as there is no ECE regulation 37 standard for a LED "bulb" you can't get an E marked one. If this has changed I'd be interested to know.

Robert G8RPI.

As usual you’ve jumped the gun. No where did I say ‘approved’ or make any reference to ECE37

You can buy extremely high powered LEDs from a major manufacturer to replace normal bulbs and they do claim to maintain the beam pattern, however that have a far higher light output than would be approved for ECE37 these are made only for off road rally and race cars.

In essence there is zero point in making an LED bulb that would meet ECE37 criteria as it would be no brighter and no better than a normal bulb, but it would cost a whole lot more.

However the op is not in the U.K. out lighting regs for LEDs is limited by our own old laws on car lighting from the 80s, I have no idea what the laws on these things are in other countries, yes they have the same ECE37 rules as the rest of Europe but I don’t know what’s else is allowed under individual countries own laws and so advised accordingly.

The whole regulations on these things is a farce anyway, my understanding is that to meet the regulations the bulbs are allowed something like 0.2mm of variation in the location of the filament in order to get the correct beam pattern, where as most bulbs and manufacturers, submit known good bulbs for testing and approval and then churn out a million bulbs with little consideration for quality control as that level of accuracy costs quite a lot of money, so most cars on our roads might have e-marked bulbs but they would never past the required tests if they were ever tested.
 
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g8rpi

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AndyRKett

LED replacements can't "..conform to the same standards as proper headlight bulbs,..." becuase they are LEDs and the standards require filaments. It's also physically impossible to produce a LED that conform to the Hx (halogen) ECE standards because of the filament size.

Do you have any evidence that major manufacturers like Ring, Phillips and Osram are producing bulbs that don't conform?

You say "In essence there is zero point in making an LED bulb that would meet ECE37 criteria as it would be no brighter and no better than a normal bulb, but it would cost a whole lot more." which is missing the point of why many people want LED lights - colour temperature. LEDs can produce a "whiter" or blueish light.

Robert G8RPI.
 

HughJarsse

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my understanding is that to meet the regulations the bulbs are allowed something like 0.2mm of variation in the location of the filament in order to get the correct beam pattern,

Hope you realise that that '0.2mm variation, equates to a 'whopping' 0.007 (that's seven THOUSANDTHS of an inch tolerance), which to be honest is well within any manufacturing tolerance for that sort of item!!
(I spent many years machining aircraft parts for the military, and tolerances there's are not much more than 0.004 of an inch!!)
Would think that many manufacturers would be working to far less tolerance than 0.2mm, so if Osram/philips are keeping to the 0.2, then they are doing extremely well, considering they are working with glass, and high volume machinery!!
 
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My experience is that most manufacturers manage to get the filament accurately inside the glass, but the welding on of the base that locates it in the lamp is haphazard.
I've bought replacements online and been disappointed when the bases were far enough out to ruin the beam.
Now I will only buy from where I can see the bulb before purchase. More expensive, but less hassle.
 

AndyRKett

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AndyRKett

LED replacements can't "..conform to the same standards as proper headlight bulbs,..." becuase they are LEDs and the standards require filaments. It's also physically impossible to produce a LED that conform to the Hx (halogen) ECE standards because of the filament size.

There is such a thing as LED Filaments, so that's not true. It is technically and physically possible for a manufacturer to make a bulb that in every way looks, feels and most importantly acts like a normal filament bulb.

The Currently available bulbs from major manufacturers at not designs for road use (I've already stated that) they are designed for motor sport use where a builder would buy a standard lamp to fit to their vehicle and so want a bulb that works with that lamp, does not draw anymore power but also provides considerably more light, they don't want to have to buy or redesign the reflector and lens just to match it to a specific bulb. Therefore these bulbs will fit in a normal lamp, use no more power and produce no more heat than a regular bulb and still produce the desired beam pattern.

I'm not going to sit here any longer and discuss this, you are perfectly capable of using google to inform yourself, you just prefer to try and belittle people by constantly putting the onus on them to prove themselves, The information is there so you can go and look it up. :p


Do you have any evidence that major manufacturers like Ring, Phillips and Osram are producing bulbs that don't conform?

I never stated anything about Major manufacturers, but for the 3 you've named there are dozens of manufacturers, knocking out millions of bulbs which don't conform and that in some cases have never been tested because they are fake bulbs branded as Philips or osram.
Again you can use google, go inform yourself, given that poundland, amazon and other big companies were caught out recently selling phone chargers that don't even conform to european electrical safety standards, how confident are you that everywhere you could buy a car bulb in the UK, checks out the legal requirements are met by what they buy in.... or how many go "oooh thats cheap i'll get that and increase my mark up"

which is missing the point of why many people want LED lights - colour temperature. LEDs can produce a "whiter" or blueish light.

Robert G8RPI.

Manufacturers are now perfectly able to add chemicals to the gas in the bulb or the filament its self, add a filter colour to the bulb to reproduce a whole range of colour temp in blue and white. These bulbs are cheap to produce and the gullible masses will buy them up by the bucket load. On the flip side it would cost a lot of money and development to produce an LED that would do the same, even using an LED filament, which would likely be extremly fragile and suseptable to damage, require far more complicated electronics and have a far higher failure rate in production than a simple bulb. They are harder and more complex to recycle under WEEE regulations afterwards and as an electronic devices rather than a glass bulb which is no more complex in its make up than a bear bottle and cap with a drop of swimming pool water in it.
New cars are being fitted with LED and laser headlights (our Mini has LED headlights) and so R&D money is better spend on those areas for major companies like Osram Bosch and Philips. There is a market for an H4 LED but only a small number of people would be willing to spend £200 on a pair of LED head light bulbs when there is a perfectly acceptable comparable alternative for £20.

You really need to quit trying to troll all the time, I knew when I posted my original comment that you would show up trying to make a show of your super-duper ability to read a regulation, however go back and read my original reply and you'll see that at no point did I make any claims about bulbs conforming to ECE37, nor about LED's being legal for road use. I simple answered the OPs question which was to point out the best available LED solution that would maintain function, but also advise to check local laws on their use.
When you're ready you should to climb down off your high horse try offering some useful to a discussion.
 

g8rpi

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<SNIP>
You really need to quit trying to troll all the time, I knew when I posted my original comment that you would show up trying to make a show of your super-duper ability to read a regulation, however go back and read my original reply and you'll see that at no point did I make any claims about bulbs conforming to ECE37, nor about LED's being legal for road use.

<SNIP>

Andy, read what you say above. Classic description of a troll posting. I did not troll, I just wanted to know what the conforming LED's you had discovered were. I'm happy to be corrected but want evidence not hearsay.

I'm not going to comment on your lack of technical understanding, but you did say "most bulbs and manufacturers...." that must include the major manufacturers by definition. What poundland selling dangerous cellphone chargers has to do with Philips, Ring and Osram manufacturing halogen bulbs I've no idea.
Enough.

Robert G8RPI.
 

AndyRKett

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Andy, read what you say above. Classic description of a troll posting. I did not troll

I'm not going to comment on your lack of technical understanding,

This is the classic description of a troll post, smacked in the face with your own ironic stupidity, you’re nothing but a ‘think you know better than everyone else troll’

Genuinely nobody cares about ECE37 and that was never the question, but as usual you have to troll the forum with your little rule book telling everyone how they should live their lives.

Simple solution to this, is if I post something, don’t bother replying, no matter how ‘interested’ you may or may not be, the only reason for your reply above was to troll and now all you’re doing is splitting hairs over grammar to try and justify your moronic behaviour. :rolleyes:
 
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