General Removing the oil filter?

[AnthonyH]

I need to remove my oil filter but its in a really awkward position. Its got a 36mm hex on it but my socket is too deep to get onto it. How am i supposed to shift that? Any special tools?

Its the black plastic placed above the driveshaft.

 

[bugsymike]

I need to remove my oil filter but its in a really awkward position. Its got a 36mm hex on it but my socket is too deep to get onto it. How am i supposed to shift that? Any special tools?

Its the black plastic placed above the driveshaft.

View attachment 474046

It is similar on Doblo 1.6MJs etc.
If you are lucky, a slim comination spanner tht size, or I sometimes use a Facom steel strap wrench that is quite effective.
Alternatively it may be possible to support the engine carefully using a rubber pad on a jack, then slacken the engine mounting so the the engine lowers down enough to allow your socket to get on through the wheel arch.
A small point when they are very tight the plastic nut tends to round off.
Motor factors can supply replacements , but there are several different types and filter designs I have found.
Finally when you succeed and are fitting the new filter and O ring to the cap, oil it well so the oil ring is less likely to stick next time and only do it up gently to recommended torque.

 

[AnthonyH]

It is similar on Doblo 1.6MJs etc.
If you are lucky, a slim comination spanner tht size, or I sometimes use a Facom steel strap wrench that is quite effective.
Alternatively it may be possible to support the engine carefully using a rubber pad on a jack, then slacken the engine mounting so the the engine lowers down enough to allow your socket to get on through the wheel arch.
A small point when they are very tight the plastic nut tends to round off.
Motor factors can supply replacements , but there are several different types and filter designs I have found.
Finally when you succeed and are fitting the new filter and O ring to the cap, oil it well so the oil ring is less likely to stick next time and only do it up gently to recommended torque.

I'll give all of those a go, my fabric strap might work and probably won't damage the plastic if it doesn't want to move, a big spanner (will need to buy one) and lowering the engine would work too, but that'll be a last resort.

I didn't try my fabric strap wrench because i got a bit hung up on the Official Fiat Elearn page that said i should use a 36mm socket, of course you're a lot smarter than that elearn website lol

 

[Ralf S.]

I would buy a spare cover, ahead of trying to remove it. I've only ever rounded these off when using a spanner. A ring spanner or socket is better but they never fit in there. Use a strap, or even (carefully) a chain wrench to unscrew it.


Ralf S.

 

[AnthonyH]

I'm having a go at this tomorrow. On Fiat elearn it said I needed a 36 mm socket, so I bought one that didn't fit...and had to wait for a 32mm that does fit. So I'm on my third socket now. I imagine it'll round off, next I'll try my fabric strap...mmm... maybe this isn't the original cover, so I may be buying another. Isn't it supposed to be metal anyway, why is mine plastic? I don't want to delay this any longer but I'll see where I can buy a new cover now.

The sump plug is probably rounding off tomorrow as well. I need to get it up on ramps and get a big bar on it. Fingers crossed time.

 

[bugsymike]

I'm having a go at this tomorrow. On Fiat elearn it said I needed a 36 mm socket, so I bought one that didn't fit...and had to wait for a 32mm that does fit. So I'm on my third socket now. I imagine it'll round off, next I'll try my fabric strap...mmm... maybe this isn't the original cover, so I may be buying another. Isn't it supposed to be metal anyway, why is mine plastic? I don't want to delay this any longer but I'll see where I can buy a new cover now.

The sump plug is probably rounding off tomorrow as well. I need to get it up on ramps and get a big bar on it. Fingers crossed time.

They can be a pain.
That Facom tool is a steel band rather than a chain and it is adjustable by turning the nut on the end, it also has a ratchet function.
To be honest I was well impressed with it.
What I often do with very tight filters is use the correct socket or spanner, but also the Facom tool so it spreads the load.
It waas cheaper when I bought mine, not £34.

 

[AnthonyH]

They can be a pain.
That Facom tool is a steel band rather than a chain and it is adjustable by turning the nut on the end, it also has a ratchet function.
To be honest I was well impressed with it.
What I often do with very tight filters is use the correct socket or spanner, but also the Facom tool so it spreads the load.
It waas cheaper when I bought mine.

If i recall correctly i've had one of the Facom type tools but i currently don't have it, so maybe i sent it back, or perhaps i just think i've bought one but never did, I'm not sure. This is certainly a good idea though, using both in a kind of double/reverse to spread the load would help.

I'm thinking

 

[bugsymike]

If i recall correctly i've had one of the Facom type tools but i currently don't have it, so maybe i sent it back, or perhaps i just think i've bought one but never did, I'm not sure. This is certainly a good idea though, using both in a kind of double/reverse to spread the load would help.

I'm thinking

Being a flat band the force is fairly equal all the way around and it can be made quite tight so doesn't slip , also with the ratchet action it can work in areas with little space.
I have chain and basic strap wrenches, but after buying this I have never used them again.
Another tool for the job is a box of oil filter sockets that fit the plastic serrations of different design filter tops. Bit overkill for one vehicle though.

 

[AnthonyH]

Being a flat band the force is fairly equal all the way around and it can be made quite tight so doesn't slip , also with the ratchet action it can work in areas with little space.
I have chain and basic strap wrenches, but after buying this I have never used them again.
Another tool for the job is a box of oil filter sockets that fit the plastic serrations of different design filter tops. Bit overkill for one vehicle though.

I dug around in my ebay and Amazon accounts and couldn't find a Facom tool, i would probably have been put off by the price, i'm keeping it in mind. I saw the box of serrated tops you describe, they're not too expensive, but i would only need one of them, so the rest would be sat around in storage. I'm going to google to see if i can buy another cover, preferably a metal one, if the sump plug comes off tomorrow i'll have to get a replacement for that too.

 

[bugsymike]

I dug around in my ebay and Amazon accounts and couldn't find a Facom tool, i would probably have been put off by the price, i'm keeping it in mind. I saw the box of serrated tops you describe, they're not too expensive, but i would only need one of them, so the rest would be sat around in storage. I'm going to google to see if i can buy another cover, preferably a metal one, if the sump plug comes off tomorrow i'll have to get a replacement for that too.

For me using it most days it paid for it's self, but I agree not cheap.
I don't think they do a metal filter top as it would probably cause wear on the main filter housing.
Re the socket type kit the cheap ones are not necessarily a very good fit.
On sump plugs if a hexagon bolt I always use a hexagon socket and a decent bar to put even pressure as less likely to round it off than a ring spanner or bi-hexagon socket on a small ratchet.

 

[AnthonyH]

For me using it most days it paid for it's self, but I agree not cheap.
I don't think they do a metal filter top as it would probably cause wear on the main filter housing.
Re the socket type kit the cheap ones are not necessarily a very good fit.
On sump plugs if a hexagon bolt I always use a hexagon socket and a decent bar to put even pressure as less likely to round it off than a ring spanner or bi-hexagon socket on a small ratchet.

I've found a replacement plastic filter top on ebay, not too bad at £11 delivered, about the same price as a new sump plug.

I'm doing a slow motion service on the car, while i collect the right tools and find time. This process only has to be done once thankfully, i'll replace my Puntos with 500Xs over the next few years, so its worth doing.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

How to video for this right here



Ok so it’s on the Punto but it’s the same platform and the same terrible access.

Be prepared for oil all over the subframe.

I used a chain wrench for this it’s never failed me and it will always work on any oil filter. Plus the offset of the ratchet in this particular case helps with access. You could also use a socket with universal joint extension to try and get in there but way make more work for yourself.

They are meant to be plastic, they are always plastic. Some of the 1.3 diesels had a little metal cover over the plastic filter because it was quite close to the hot turbo, but generally it’s all plastic.

The advantage of this. Is it can be easier to remove when you warm the engine up and with these engines I’d always run them for 5-10 mins just to warm them up enough to get the oil nice and runny. The 1.6 diesel I used engine flush every time because it had 170k miles on the clock and at that mileage the engine was quite well coked up. Oil would turn black within a day.

Make sure you change the o-ring when you put the cap back on and oil the o-ring first to avoid it getting damaged.
When you put the o-ring on the cap make sure it’s in the right groove or you won’t get the cap to go back on properly.

 

[AnthonyH]

How to video for this right here



Ok so it’s on the Punto but it’s the same platform and the same terrible access.

Be prepared for oil all over the subframe.

I used a chain wrench for this it’s never failed me and it will always work on any oil filter. Plus the offset of the ratchet in this particular case helps with access. You could also use a socket with universal joint extension to try and get in there but way make more work for yourself.

They are meant to be plastic, they are always plastic. Some of the 1.3 diesels had a little metal cover over the plastic filter because it was quite close to the hot turbo, but generally it’s all plastic.

The advantage of this. Is it can be easier to remove when you warm the engine up and with these engines I’d always run them for 5-10 mins just to warm them up enough to get the oil nice and runny. The 1.6 diesel I used engine flush every time because it had 170k miles on the clock and at that mileage the engine was quite well coked up. Oil would turn black within a day.

Make sure you change the o-ring when you put the cap back on and oil the o-ring first to avoid it getting damaged.
When you put the o-ring on the cap make sure it’s in the right groove or you won’t get the cap to go back on properly.

I watched the video an hour ago and thought excellent stuff - time to get busy!

And the sump plug rounded off...

I previously knew it'd be a nightmare to get off because the wheel nuts were on double hard, I figured the same guy that did the wheel nuts did the sump plug and this proved to be the case. The plug is only supposed to be on to 20Nm and consequently has a soft metal hex nut that disappeared like putty.

What should i do?

Not tried the oil filter yet, although i may go and round that off too lol.

 

[jackwhoo]

Sump plug Tap it anti clock wise using a cold chisel
Or a dot punch
single hex Socket?
At least you have good access for sump plug

 

[AnthonyH]

I got a cold chisel and hammer on the sump plug, but only suceeded in digging a groove into it, no movement. Any other ideas?

On the plus side i did get the oil filter cover to move, so that'll come off when i need it to. Is there any value in getting the filter changed before the sump plug is off?

 

[PuntoHowTo]

One thing I would say (won’t help you at the moment) is make sure you buy good tools with nice sharp edges on the sockets and have a good quality set of 6 sided sockets it is much harder to round off a bolt if you have good tools.

Cheap tools with soft rounded edges, 12 sided sockets etc is a recipe for round off bolts.

If you have made a groove in the bolt you have made a start, keep going and see if you can get any movement, if you have a slightly undersized socket can you hammer that on the head to get purchase on the new grove you have created.

 

[bugsymike]

I got a cold chisel and hammer on the sump plug, but only suceeded in digging a groove into it, no movement. Any other ideas?

On the plus side i did get the oil filter cover to move, so that'll come off when i need it to. Is there any value in getting the filter changed before the sump plug is off?

Leave the filter until you are ready to change the oil.
Re chisel job, I usually use a decent size chisel and hammer, the chisel doesn't want to be too sharp as it will just cut.
What I do is tap the bolt at right angles, so if you imagine hitting the edge of a clock at 3 Oclock a couple of blows so it puts a groove into the bolt, then slightly angle the chisel down at hammer end, so you are now driving the bolt around to undo it, not to sharp an angle or the chisel will slip around.
In your case the bolt has a built in washer so if you hit that rather than the hexagon you will be applying more leverage, though be very careful to not hit the sump, only the actual bolt/washer.
Apologies for the picture quality, old camera and much older operator and yes I am aware the object is a nut and not a bolt, it is for demonstrration purposes only.
Photos are from right to left, so cut a groove at right angles then angle chisel in the groove to drive bolt around.
Note I am not actually hitting the hexagon only the built in washer as this gives more leverage, plus if new bolt not available it can still be refitted providing no damage to sealing area.
If all else fails, buy a suction oil drainer and leave the sump plug alone, just make sure oil is hot so it flows easily.
Also note the well used Facom oil filter strap wrench.

 

[AnthonyH]

This is where i got up to after my last post - I've just taken some pictures while i try to get my head around the technique to use. The groove i've previously dug is at 4.30pm by the clock. I've had a go at the washer already.

These are the cold chisels i have. I used them all, i think the middle one was best and happily i previously grinded the end flattish, the other two are still sharp.

I'll have a re-read of the posts above and try again. I've previously tried to get a 12mm socket on, but couldn't manage it. Although a 1/2 inch socket might work, that'd be 12.5mm. Can we even by imperial sockets any more?

 

[AnthonyH]

Also note the well used Facom oil filter strap wrench.

I'm finding this problem is a good excuse to buy new tools, so watch this space lol.

 

[s130]

I tend to replace and keep old sump plugs. On most Fiats later Fiats, (Punto, Tempra, Stilo, Barchetta, 500X, ...) the threads diameters and pitch are the same. On the earlier Fiats like Uno, Strada etc. the sum / gearbox plugs are a tapered thread and I use plumbing PTFE tape.

On the later Fiats with the flat flange I use Dowty Hydraulic Washers, or heat anneal the copper washer so they are soft.

Dowty or annealing means that the plugs only need nipping up. On the plug threads I put a little MRM CV moly grease. Stops corrosion and seizing and is waterproof and high temperature rated.