My current daily driver needs a sh*t load of oil. VW Golf 2.0GT TDi. Seems to use at least 1 litre every 5,000 miles and it always has done since new. Not broken in 95,000 miles of use though... It'll probably go bang tonight now I've said that.
General Remaped Multijet Blown Up
- Thread starter rptbu
- Start date
Currently reading:
General Remaped Multijet Blown Up
- Status
My current daily driver needs a sh*t load of oil. VW Golf 2.0GT TDi. Seems to use at least 1 litre every 5,000 miles and it always has done since new. Not broken in 95,000 miles of use though... It'll probably go bang tonight now I've said that.
Its weird because i thought garrett wre the dogs ******** when it came to turbos. i mean thats all they have been dong for years and years. you would think a "bad batch" in thousands of completed and sold cars would be un heard of.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 25,219
- Points
- 3,671
You'd think wrong.
And yes they are a good manufacturer. What you got to consider they makes 100,000's of these things so yes some will have weaknesses.
You also have to consider the shear amount of stress these things go through. 400,000rpm 500-800*C operating temp's IIRC.
They can go wrong thats what happens when you start to make engine design complex.
Sounds at least very similar to the problem Renault had with 1.9 DCi engines on Lagunas & possibly other models, except with Renault the engine would just surge and then rev at full whack until all the oil had gone & then go bang. The owners couldn't stop it unless they knew the engines were prone to it coz Renault use the keyless ignition so the stop/start is electronic. The only way to stop them when they surge is to stall them.
Obviously this part of the problem wouldnt apply to Puntos as they have a normal ignition, but the main point to note was that the turbos Renault had problems with were also Garrett.
Try searching Parkers forums for 'Renault DCi Problems' - i was reading through that for nights!
Other than that the only advice would be don't remap the car in the first place. Work on the assumtion that if it was meant to have 160bhp or whatever else, Fiat would put it on to start with & stop trying to pretend you know better than a manufacturer.
Just to point out, im not saying this wouldnt have happenned on a non-remapped car, it seems it can happen to any. But in the case of Puntos, their seems to be quite a pattern emerging between remapped cars & failed turbos of some sort.
That is not sh*t loads of oil. Believe me, I have owned cars which I have duly serviced every 6000 miles but have needed to top up a pint every 300-ish. I used to take in the old oil from my mates' oil changes and just pour it in! I'm sure I must be responsible for a black line between my house and my place of work! The downside is all the empty cans one collects.
Are you talking about new cars though? I had a mini 1275GT as my first car and it was a bit shot to say the least. Just one of the problems that it had was badly pitted valve / valve seats and valve stem seals. That definetly drunk alot of oil.
1 mint every 300 miles surely means that you have a problem?
We don't. I have done enough consultancy work with manufacturers and spent time accordingly in the design departments. The engines are able to take a lot more then they are churning out.
@ the roiginal poster: If you ever have a bad meal in a restaurant you will tell the whole world not to have meal anymore other than home? People could die!
Regarding Garret: Their turbos are very good, but faulty batches happen all the time and this time it hit Garret.
At Red Dot all customers are informed of potential problems and we send on every rolling road/mapping day cars home after putting them on the rollers when we can see that the engine is not up to any mapping (without charge for lost time).
At Red Dot we are not going to the limits unless specifically asked by the customer.
We do noz claim that the re-map is undetectable. However we can disguise it and even trick the ECU to have the update date set to the last update or original date.
Not entirely true Ffoxy...I think you mean MTTF (Mean Time To Failure), as all the turbo's involved seem to suffer catastrophic mechanical failure and are unrepairable.
I'll certainly be getting my ECU reset should my turbo go pop!
@ Oldschool - Not a dig mate, but didn't Tym's turbo go bang only a week or two after his remap? If so, the rolling road didn't detect his poorly turbo?
Last edited:
- Joined
- Sep 12, 2003
- Messages
- 46,073
- Points
- 7,134
But didn't Tym also drive like a nutter, with speedo readings on so-called autobahn@ Oldschool - Not a dig mate, but didn't Tym's turbo go bang only a week or two after his remap? If so, the rolling road didn't detect his poorly turbo?
of around 146mph!!!He had his remap around middle of March 2008.
His top speed thread was early June 2008 <--- so that implies he is driving like an idiot...
His turbo blew up on 1st July 2008!
That is more than 2 weeks
Last edited:
@ Oldschool - Not a dig mate, but didn't Tym's turbo go bang only a week or two after his remap? If so, the rolling road didn't detect his poorly turbo?
when we can see that the engine is not up to any mapping
Seems to me that it is only the people who drive like loons that are being affected like this, i didnt make the concious decision to get mine re-mapped, it was already done when i bought it. But now its gone i miss it, i liked it for the better usability on the motorways and for aiding overtaking, not for thrashing, if i wanted to rev the nuts of something i would have got a vvt petrol.
@ Oldschool - Not a dig mate, but didn't Tym's turbo go bang only a week or two after his remap? If so, the rolling road didn't detect his poorly turbo?
I would have loved to get his turbo for examination, but as it hasn't happened it is difficult to say what caused the turbo failure and what was the actual part failing.
It being some three months difference it could theoretically be the mapping as it has been changed from standard although much higher degrees of mapping with uprated intercooler and other fuels resulting in torque outputs of over 400lb ft and power in excess of 250bhp on at least three cars have not shown any turbo problems till date.
Nobody knows what oil(s) have been used in the engine. Neither do we know in what state the engine was, whether enough oil was in the engine, whether the car was driven in the way it is supposed to, whether oil surge has taken place etc.
What we do know that Garret had a bad batch of turbos and we do also know that all cars prior to the faulty batch didn't suffer any problems. The ones after the batch had no problems so far, but I would not use it as proof yet as the time is too short.
The same batch of Turbos hit VAG, where exactly the same situation occured. The difference was that VAG immediately acted unlike Fiat who tried to hide the problem in public.
At the time being the turbo didn't show any signs of problems as didn't a couple of thousand Garret equipped turbos being mapped by Red Dot, which are still running without problems (most of them are VAG and some Fiat group).
Well they admit it when something goes wrong and the car goes to the dealer at least, better than FIAT.
- Joined
- Apr 8, 2004
- Messages
- 25,219
- Points
- 3,671
Only a guess but for what ever reason a build up of pressure in the sump / crankcase etc then given way and allowing surge of overheated oil through the turbo.
Yes.
He drives everywhere likes he's on a WRC stage from what he was telling me at the rolling road day!
Just looking on Honest John website at bmw and came across this
Turbo trouble with early 330ds caused by ECU programme allowing higher boost than safe for turbo. Cured by replacing turbo, and thoroughly cleaning turbo inlet manifold and pipework because a blockage can cause the engine to run on its sump oil and self-destruct.
320d M47 150bhp models gained a reputation for repeated turbo failure,
possibly due to extended oil service intervals.
By June 2007 major problems with post-facelift 320d 150PS models emerging. They can split their inlet manifolds allowing the engine to ingest parts of the swirl flaps, and the turbos are failing in increasing numbers. Consequently, very few 2nd hand replacement engines available. Quite a lot of feedback on this, for example:
What follows applies to Renault 1.5DCI engines, but may explain why the diesel turbochargers fail: The EGR valve should open to allow carbon dioxide (which acts as a cooling gas) into the combustion chambers when the engine is under load (>30% boost). This allows the combustion chamber temperature to drop and thus the temperature of the exhaust gases. If it sticks in the closed position the exhaust gas temperature will rise causing a) the turbo bearings to fail and b) engine oil into the induction system. This can cause the engine to run on its crankcase oil until it is either stalled or goes bang. Problems with EGR valves are often the cause of rough running when the valve is stuck in the open position as well. In several cases turbos have blown but the EGR valve has not been replaced. Inevitably the new turbo unit will not last long. so may not be his fault
Turbo trouble with early 330ds caused by ECU programme allowing higher boost than safe for turbo. Cured by replacing turbo, and thoroughly cleaning turbo inlet manifold and pipework because a blockage can cause the engine to run on its sump oil and self-destruct.
320d M47 150bhp models gained a reputation for repeated turbo failure,
possibly due to extended oil service intervals.
By June 2007 major problems with post-facelift 320d 150PS models emerging. They can split their inlet manifolds allowing the engine to ingest parts of the swirl flaps, and the turbos are failing in increasing numbers. Consequently, very few 2nd hand replacement engines available. Quite a lot of feedback on this, for example:
What follows applies to Renault 1.5DCI engines, but may explain why the diesel turbochargers fail: The EGR valve should open to allow carbon dioxide (which acts as a cooling gas) into the combustion chambers when the engine is under load (>30% boost). This allows the combustion chamber temperature to drop and thus the temperature of the exhaust gases. If it sticks in the closed position the exhaust gas temperature will rise causing a) the turbo bearings to fail and b) engine oil into the induction system. This can cause the engine to run on its crankcase oil until it is either stalled or goes bang. Problems with EGR valves are often the cause of rough running when the valve is stuck in the open position as well. In several cases turbos have blown but the EGR valve has not been replaced. Inevitably the new turbo unit will not last long. so may not be his fault
:worship:when we can see that the engine is not up to any mapping
Thank you Dave, very helpful!
How does a rolling road detect a soon to be faulty turbo then?
it don't detect every thing, the people standing around it do, you can often here the turbo whistle or rattle, or experienced RR man can also notice when some thing is wrong when the lines are doing stuff he don't expect them to do
Last edited:
- Status
Similar threads
