Technical Recent car bought, terrible problems

[Cuppatea]

Hi,

I bought a fiat 500 two days ago, the seller (a trader) has gone AWOL and I am left with a car that has failed it's MOT.

I paid £3k for a 2011 fiat 500 and it has a number of major MOT defects

1. Suspension Spring mount corroded (I think rear) please see photo of the issue [5.3.6(a)(ii)]

2. Engine mil inoperative or indicate a malfunction [8.2.1.2(h)]

3. Electronic power steering, system malfunction [2.6(a)]

In your opinion, how much would you think it would cost for a garage to resolve these issues? Am I just throwing good money after bad?

 

[jrkitching]

I bought a fiat 500 two days ago, the seller (a trader) has gone AWOL and I am left with a car that has failed it's MOT.

A trader who sells a car that is dangerously defective to a member of the public without disclosing that fact has likely committed a serious criminal offence.

Right now, I'd concentrate on finding this trader and getting him to either put the car into roadworthy condition or refund your money in full.

Contacting trading standards could be a worthwhile first step. There are plenty of similar cases documented on the 'web where traders selling cars such as this have received substantial penalties.

This is just one example - a quick search will bring up many more.

As to what the repair will likely cost, it's certainly going to need a new rear beam and all the other failure items will need to be sorted also. Without doing a detailed inspection it's impossible to give even a rough answer, but paying someone else to fix all of the problems will likely cost a substantial amount, likely thousands rather than hundreds.

Whilst a competent and enthusiatic DIY owner might be able to turn this into a useable car, as a trade project, the car could very well not even be worth repairing economically. Its true value in this sort of condition may only be a few hundred pounds.

I'd put all your efforts into trying to get your money back.

You've already been fleeced by one rogue trader; I wouldn't want to see you get fleeced by another, which could easily happen if you take it to another independent garage with these problems.

 

[steveras57]

A trader who sells a car that is dangerously defective to a member of the public without disclosing that fact has likely committed a serious criminal offence.

Right now, I'd concentrate on finding this trader and getting him to either put the car into roadworthy condition or refund your money in full.

Contacting trading standards could be a worthwhile first step. There are plenty of similar cases documented in the 'web where traders selling cars such as this have received substantial penalties.

This is just one example - a quick search will bring up many more.

As to what the repair will likely cost, it's certainly going to need a new rear beam and all the other failure items will need to be sorted also. Without doing a detailed inspection it's impossible to give even a rough answer, but paying someone else to fix all of the problems will likely cost a substantial amount, likely thousands rather than hundreds.

Whilst a competent and enthusiatic DIY owner could likely turn this into a useable car, as a trade project, the car could very well not even be worth repairing economically. Its true value in this sort of condition may only be a few hundred pounds.
problems
I'd put all your efforts into trying to get your money back.

You've already been fleeced by one rogue trader; I wouldn't want to see you get fleeced by another, which could easily happen if you take it to another independent garage with these problems.

Agreed police and trading standards are your first course of action!

 

[Cuppatea]

A trader who sells a car that is dangerously defective to a member of the public without disclosing that fact has likely committed a serious criminal offence.

Right now, I'd concentrate on finding this trader and getting him to either put the car into roadworthy condition or refund your money in full.

Contacting trading standards could be a worthwhile first step. There are plenty of similar cases documented on the 'web where traders selling cars such as this have received substantial penalties.

This is just one example - a quick search will bring up many more.

As to what the repair will likely cost, it's certainly going to need a new rear beam and all the other failure items will need to be sorted also. Without doing a detailed inspection it's impossible to give even a rough answer, but paying someone else to fix all of the problems will likely cost a substantial amount, likely thousands rather than hundreds.

Whilst a competent and enthusiatic DIY owner might be able to turn this into a useable car, as a trade project, the car could very well not even be worth repairing economically. Its true value in this sort of condition may only be a few hundred pounds.

I'd put all your efforts into trying to get your money back.

You've already been fleeced by one rogue trader; I wouldn't want to see you get fleeced by another, which could easily happen if you take it to another independent garage with these problems.

Thank you very much for your help, i am feeling pretty low at je moment, and suspect you are right, the costs to fix are going to be too much.

I am pretty sure the seller has disappeared into the ether, and worry that if I call the cops they will just give me a crime reference number and send me packing. Trading standards will sit on their hands.

Perhaps scrap the car for a couple of hundred pounds or sell it as spares/repairs on ebay and use the money for what I should have done originally, and just catch the bus.


It was my own fault. I should have really just caught the bus. The last school I taught in was close enough to cycle, regretfully this one is just too far...

Lesson learnt..

 

[AndyRKett]

I think you need to elaborate on the circumstances a bit more, you bought a car 2 days ago from a “trader” without an MOT, then took it to MOT yourself ?

When you say this person has gone AWOL I presume they don’t work from a premises? Are they actually a car dealer or a bloke who sells cars on the side? While the definition of trader may still apply if you bought the car off a bloke on the side of the road with no MOT, paid cash and have no record of who this person is then all your options are likely to be severely limited.

And also why would you buy a car for £3k without having it checked over or without an MOT !?

Anyway in answer to your actual question it’s impossible to say whether you’d be throwing good money after bad as there may be a lot of other issues that have not appeared yet or that might be all the problems.

I’d expect to pay £500 maybe more for a new rear axle installed, I would not have it welded

 

[John202020]

Hi welcome so you have a bad situation that's not your fault, assuming you have no alternative to fixing it yourself or loose everything lets look at the possible fixes?

Power steering malfunction, not sure but probably two things bad battery or flat ( £60, don't bother with a stop start one ) AND new engine earth strap £5, possibly £30 to fit

EML at start up, if it does not come up on the dash before start up that suggests the dash has been knobbed to hide another issue probably Lambda if the car runs normally, this could be somewhat more expensive? Start here FIRST, does the EML( engine symbol light yellow on the right of the cluster ) come on before you start the car?

Rear axle try to get it welded in order to pass only once the other issues sorted, worst case new rear beam as above £500

 

[porta]

Trading standards and police

 

[varesecrazy]

Hi,

I bought a fiat 500 two days ago, the seller (a trader) has gone AWOL and I am left with a car that has failed it's MOT.

I paid £3k for a 2011 fiat 500 and it has a number of major MOT defects

1. Suspension Spring mount corroded (I think rear) please see photo of the issue [5.3.6(a)(ii)]

2. Engine mil inoperative or indicate a malfunction [8.2.1.2(h)]

3. Electronic power steering, system malfunction [2.6(a)]

In your opinion, how much would you think it would cost for a garage to resolve these issues? Am I just throwing good money after bad?


View attachment 438309

Hi, sorry to hear about the problems

One important question:

How did you Pay for the car?

Anything through a Bank.. Or Credit card should give SOME level of support

 

[Cuppatea]

Hi, sorry to hear about the problems

One important question:

How did you Pay for the car?

Anything through a Bank.. Or Credit card should give SOME level of support

Hi

I paid for it via a bank transfer, the bank have said that as I have the car it is a civil matter not a bank fraud matter and will help no further.

 

[Cuppatea]

I think you need to elaborate on the circumstances a bit more, you bought a car 2 days ago from a “trader” without an MOT, then took it to MOT yourself ?

When you say this person has gone AWOL I presume they don’t work from a premises? Are they actually a car dealer or a bloke who sells cars on the side? While the definition of trader may still apply if you bought the car off a bloke on the side of the road with no MOT, paid cash and have no record of who this person is then all your options are likely to be severely limited.

And also why would you buy a car for £3k without having it checked over or without an MOT !?

Anyway in answer to your actual question it’s impossible to say whether you’d be throwing good money after bad as there may be a lot of other issues that have not appeared yet or that might be all the problems.

I’d expect to pay £500 maybe more for a new rear axle installed, I would not have it welded

Hi Andy

You are absolutely right, I was not entirely clear in my original post.

We purchased the car from a autotrader advert, which clearly said that there were only a few days left on the MOT and that a warranty would be provided.

The guy said he was a dealer, but he brought the car to me, so I never saw his premises. I did pay via bank transfer, £3k is a lot of money (for me) to have in cash.

As you ellude, I am a fool to buy the bucket of nails without getting it checked out.

But thank you for candor, I reckon your guess of £500 for a rear cross bar thing is probably right.

I did contact webuyanycar and they claim to offer £1200 for the car in ita current state.

So perhaps, I need to consider that option.

 

[vexorg]

Why would you buy a car from a trader with no MOT??

 

[gigadud]

Hi Andy

You are absolutely right, I was not entirely clear in my original post.

We purchased the car from a autotrader advert, which clearly said that there were only a few days left on the MOT and that a warranty would be provided.

The guy said he was a dealer, but he brought the car to me, so I never saw his premises. I did pay via bank transfer, £3k is a lot of money (for me) to have in cash.

As you ellude, I am a fool to buy the bucket of nails without getting it checked out.

But thank you for candor, I reckon your guess of £500 for a rear cross bar thing is here probably right.

I did contact webuyanycar and they claim to offer £1200 for the car in ita current state.

So perhaps, I need to consider that option .

Sometimes we may make mistakes. But before making a final decision to sell, consider other selling options so that you can compare offers and choose the best one.

 

[Cuppatea]

Hi welcome so you have a bad situation that's not your fault, assuming you have no alternative to fixing it yourself or loose everything lets look at the possible fixes?

Power steering malfunction, not sure but probably two things bad battery or flat ( £60, don't bother with a stop start one ) AND new engine earth strap £5, possibly £30 to fit

EML at start up, if it does not come up on the dash before start up that suggests the dash has been knobbed to hide another issue probably Lambda if the car runs normally, this could be somewhat more expensive? Start here FIRST, does the EML( engine symbol light yellow on the right of the cluster ) come on before you start the car?

Rear axle try to get it welded in order to pass only once the other issues sorted, worst case new rear beam as above £500

Hi,

Thank you for your time and your response.

I have just tried the car, and when I put the key in the ignition and turn it once (i.e the engine is not on, but the error lights are on) the engine management light (eml) is on.

When I then turn the engine on, the eml remains on.

From your initial response, and from another respondent, it appears £500 to replace the rear cross member thing, and possibly another couple of hundred for battery, earth strap.

I think there is an issue with lambda sensors, looking online there appear to be two, costing a couple of hundred pounds. I guess a further £200 to fit.

So does about £1,100 for that type of work sound about right?

 

[Cuppatea]

Why would you buy a car from a trader with no MOT??

Good question, my only response is, I am a damn fool. I hoped it would be okay and the warranty would cover unexpected things.

But, as I readily say, I am a complete fool

 

[Cuppatea]

Sometimes we may make mistakes. But before making a final decision to sell, consider other selling options so that you can compare offers and choose the best one.

Thank you for your reply, I have looked at eBay, and I saw one for sale (spares/repairs) which has more miles selling at the moment for about £1k.

Not sure how else I could sell it, I guess autotrader... Perhaps I will look at that.

 

[AndyRKett]

I paid for it via a bank transfer, the bank have said that as I have the car it is a civil matter not a bank fraud matter and will help no further.

I think in this case your likelihood of getting anything back is minimal, as I said in my previous reply a "Trader" could just be someone who buys and sells cars on the side and so,

We purchased the car from a autotrader advert, which clearly said that there were only a few days left on the MOT and that a warranty would be provided.

The guy said he was a dealer, but he brought the car to me, so I never saw his premises.

I suspect that the above is the case as a proper dealer would have some base or premises and would not be bringing cars to perspective customers

So you now have to deal with what you have, I would however do as suggested by many above and report this to your local trading standards, they may know of this person, they may be investigating him or it may lead to an investigation.

.As you ellude, I am a fool to buy the bucket of nails without getting it checked out.

Well you live and you learn and we are all human.

But thank you for candor, I reckon your guess of £500 for a rear cross bar thing is probably right.

As you have had it MOTd and you know the problems the next step is to weigh up what's best. You could sell it to wbac, and get your £1200 and now you are £1800 out of pocket and still need to buy another car. which could be another £2-3k and your new car has cost you getting on for £5k.

You could ask the Garage who did the MOT to quote you for the repairs and see what they say. If it only cost you another £500 for the repairs and you have a good car, then that would be a much better deal then selling it and trying to find something else, and bare in mind any replacement could also need repairs.

I think you may be better to deal with what you have than jump out of that frying pan and potentially into the fire.

Plenty of people on this forum have had similar problems with this type of rust so may be able to advise better on the cost of repair.

Problems with the electric power steering and MIL light, need diagnosis so it may be worth spending £50 to get the codes read from the car's computers and tell you what the problems are. then you can make a better choice as to how much these things will cost to sort out.

There are loads of these cars about so good used parts are readily available to help save some pennies

 

[vexorg]

Who was the trader, do you have a link to the original advert?

 

[jrkitching]

Why would you buy a car from a trader with no MOT??

And when was the last time you made an unwise purchase that you subsequently regretted?

We've all done it, and it's not a nice place to be, so let's all try to show the OP a bit more empathy here.

I paid for it via a bank transfer, the bank have said that as I have the car it is a civil matter not a bank fraud matter and will help no further.

The bank does have a responsibility to ensure that you were the person who actually authorised the transfer of the money and that you were making the transfer willingly, without being subject to any form of coercion. Nothing you've posted suggests that you didn't initiate the transfer yourself, of your own free will, so the bank has no further duty of care to you in this case.

It's not the bank's responsibility to ensure that you spend your money wisely.

There's no point exploring this avenue any further.

I did contact webuyanycar and they claim to offer £1200 for the car in ita current state.

Ok, so that's a baseline for what you could lose if you cut your losses and sell the car now. It's possible to lose more, perhaps much more, if you choose to repair it, but we don't know that yet.

WBAC will deduct a handling fee, and they may mark the car down further when they view it, so you won't get the whole £1200. Be aware that you can't legally drive the car to WBAC once its last MOT has expired. They might come and collect it, but they'll probably offer you less if they do.

before making a final decision to sell, consider other selling options so that you can compare offers and choose the best one.

That's very good advice. Cars in a similar condition to this have sold recently on eBay for around the £2000 mark, that is one other option you might consider.

My rule of thumb is that most folks can better the WBAC price by at least £500 if they sell privately.

So you now have to deal with what you have

Keep this at the front of your mind.

It matters not what you've already spent on this car, concentrate on what's the best thing to do now. This decision should be the same, irrespective of whether you'd been given this car for free, or paid £10,000 for it.

What would you do if someone had just given you this car?

You could ask the Garage who did the MOT to quote you for the repairs and see what they say.

Yes, we need to know how much you'd have to pay to get this put into a roadworthy condition.

Having it repaired at the same garage that failed it is the best way you can be sure that you'll actually get an MOT after you've spent the money.

I would however do as suggested by many above and report this to your local trading standards, they may know of this person, they may be investigating him or it may lead to an investigation.

As would I. The more folks who report a particular individual or organisation, the more likely they are to take action.

So does about £1,100 for that type of work sound about right?

Right now we just don't know. I'd say that's a minimum figure; my guess is that it could be more. Until you get a quote for the cost of making it roadworthy, it's impossible to say.

If we're to advise you better on the merits of selling now vs repair, it'd be useful to get a look at the car's MOT history. You can download this for free from this government website. If you post what you find, we'll be better able to help.

 

[porta]

Sound advice JR

 

[vexorg]

And when was the last time you made an unwise purchase that you subsequently regretted?

In all honesty, I cant remember the last time.

We've all done it, and it's not a nice place to be, so let's all try to show the OP a bit more empathy here.

It wasn't a rhetoric question, I cant see how you'd buy a car from a trader without an MOT unless it's advertised as such.

Bottom line without any details on the trader is you've been scammed. If they are legit then you may have some come back.