Technical Recent car bought, terrible problems

[Cuppatea]

Hi,

I bought a fiat 500 two days ago, the seller (a trader) has gone AWOL and I am left with a car that has failed it's MOT.

I paid £3k for a 2011 fiat 500 and it has a number of major MOT defects

1. Suspension Spring mount corroded (I think rear) please see photo of the issue [5.3.6(a)(ii)]

2. Engine mil inoperative or indicate a malfunction [8.2.1.2(h)]

3. Electronic power steering, system malfunction [2.6(a)]

In your opinion, how much would you think it would cost for a garage to resolve these issues? Am I just throwing good money after bad?

 

[jrkitching]

A lot of what's been posted in this thread is just plain wrong, but arguing about this isn't going to help the OP.

And whatever the legal rights and wrongs here, I'd agree it's going to be hard to get officialdom in any of its forms to take an interest.

But when officialdom does get involved and brings cases like this before the Courts, the penalties can often be substantial. There are plenty of case examples on the internet.

From what's been said about this seller, I'd say one well placed trading standards officer could likely bring him down.

@Cuppatea, in your position, I'd keep trying to pursue this guy through the Court and through trading standards, but don't underestimate either the time or effort involved. And remember that getting a judgment, and getting the money, are two different things.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Technically it had an MOT at time of sale, that makes it roadworthy.
I doubt you'd have any hope of getting anywhere with that on a private sale. The RAC and AA have services to check vehicles because people know you get nowehre with a private sale.

Claiming to be a trader when he's not might be the crime, but police aren't going to waste time on that. Trading standards maybe have some time to waste, then he'll just appear somewhere else under a new name.

I'm not so sure about that. I've always believed a current MOT only certifies that the vehicle was compliant at the actual time of testing? Ten minutes later it could have a CV boot fail, road spring break, or any number of other possible scenarios which would render it unroadworthy? However, in this case, it's obvious from the state of that spring pan, that the validity of the MOT must be questionable.

I've been thinking about what's best for Cuppatea. Chasing down this "trader" is likely to be an exercise in futility especially if you're hoping to recover any monies. So, should you keep and repair the car? This is a 2011 car so no "spring chicken". The rusted out spring pan is, I'm sure, no surprise to many of us. Also problems with the power steering are not unknown. The axles are very affordable from the likes of I.M. axles: https://www.imaxle.co.uk/new-fiat-5...LEMDKDjR0iMIutX4UQ5_ywS_xoCVA8QAvD_BwE#142=14 and people like Western Power steering can supply units at very competitive prices: https://shop.westernpowersteering.co.uk/fiat.html.

The big problem for our friend is going to be the labour costs. So the condition of the rest of the vehicle needs to be assessed to make a "sensible" decision as to whether to spend "real" money on it.

Doing a whole vehicle scan with the likes of Multiecuscan would be a good place to start but also a visual and "physical" assessment needs to be made. So it needs to be jacked up, or placed on a ramp, and visually examined for bodily corrosion. Then all the suspension components need to be given a vigorous "waggle" and the likes of CV boots etc inspected. What do the front discs look like? Does the engine run quietly and show any signs of past overheating problems? - if coolant level is low be very cautious as these, generally robust, engines really don't take kindly to overheating. Any indication of clutch problems? How about the well known earth lead? I could go on and on.

The problem here is that Cuppatea is unlikely to be able to carry out a meaningful assessment so either a trusted garage, friend who is thoroughly familiar with motor vehicles, or maybe a forum member with experience is going to be needed. If a proper assessment is not done it's going to be easy to spend quite a lot of money on repairs only to find out, a wee while later, that there's other problems.

 

[AndyRKett]

Technically it had an MOT at time of sale, that makes it roadworthy.
I doubt you'd have any hope of getting anywhere with that on a private sale. The RAC and AA have services to check vehicles because people know you get nowehre with a private sale.

Claiming to be a trader when he's not might be the crime, but police aren't going to waste time on that. Trading standards maybe have some time to waste, then he'll just appear somewhere else under a new name.

This is where just quoting a law written decades ago gets very complicated. Like you say the car had an MOT. The car was not sold with bald tires, and it is reasonable to say as a trader and motorist they should be able to recognise when a tire is in an unroadworthy state. But if he is not an MOT inspector then there is no reason to believe he would know that the rust shown would constitute an unroadworthy condition


Of the same law noted about
6B

"that he had reasonable cause to believe that the vehicle or trailer would not be used on a road in Great Britain, or would not be so used until it had been put into a condition in which it might lawfully be so used, F5. . ."

So he could simply say the car had a valid MOT certificate at the time of sale, as far as he was concerned it was reasonable to believe the car was in a roadworthy condition. He is not an MOT tester so it is reasonable to suggest that he would not have recognized the problems later found at MOT to, to render the car in an unroadworthy condition.

Once a law is looked at in the context of both the person making a claim and the person having the claim made against them, it is often the case that there are ways and means around these laws that would not leave the seller in this case, open to any form of prosecution.

That being said, as a trader he has an obligation under trading laws to provide a certain level of warranty for any issues that should arise even on a used car, and simply writing "sold as seen" does not get him out of bother on that front. So it becomes a civil matter.

 

[g8rpi]

I'm sorry to say that getting a result from a small claims court case in 2 months is highly unlightly. I've been down this route for a car with a fault that only showed up after the car was purchased. It took over a year to resolve (Yes I won and got my money and costs back).
Now that having raised a claim you now have some responsibilities and restrictions. I assume you have rejected the car and asked for a full refund plus costs. You cannot use the car. You cannot repair the car. You must keep the car safe. Unless you can keep it locked up under cover it would be very unwise not to keep it insured. If you can keep it off the road talk to your insurance company and ask them if they will reduce the policy to cover it for storage only.

Did it have any MOT when you bought it? How did the seller deliver it? if it had no MOT they should not have driven it. It may interest the police more if you can tell them that they drove a car without MOT as well as selling you an unsafe vehicle. Of course you could not drive it either. Except to a pre-booked MOT test ro to a place were it was to be repaired.

 

[jrkitching]

I'm sorry to say that getting a result from a small claims court case in 2 months is highly unlikely.

I'd agree. If the seller files a defence, it will take considerably longer, and there will almost certainly be more Court fees to pay.

I too have once taken a company to Court over faulty goods. The company chose to defend the case; it took 8 months to bring it to a conclusion. And this was before all the current backlog of COVID delays.

Although I won the case, and got paid, the effort and stress left me feeling like I'd lost more than I'd gained.

Now that having raised a claim you now have some responsibilities and restrictions. I assume you have rejected the car and asked for a full refund plus costs. You cannot use the car. You cannot repair the car. You must keep the car safe. Unless you can keep it locked up under cover it would be very unwise not to keep it insured. If you can keep it off the road talk to your insurance company and ask them if they will reduce the policy to cover it for storage only.

And if you aren't able to both win the case and enforce the terms of any judgment, the car will have been standing unused for what is likely to have been the best part of a year, you'll need to do something with it, and it will be worth considerably less than if you were to sell it now 'as is'. Stale petrol will have gummed up the fuel system, damp will have got into the electronics, and just getting it to start might prove difficult.

Sadly I'm coming to the conclusion that your best course of action may be to cut your losses, sell the car as is, and move on with your life. Paying someone else to fix this and then selling it once it's repaired isn't likely to leave you any better off financially.

 

[g8rpi]

The law says it is illegal to sell an un-roadworthy vehicle. It is up to the seller to determine this. No court would accept a MOT with only a short time left as proof of roadworthiness.
Unfortunatly the police probably won't want to know. Indeed if you drove the car away they may come after you as an easier "target" There was a case of this some years ago around a dodgy van rental company that was covered by one of the consumer TV shows. The police didn't want to know and told the customers that if they pressed the matter they would have to be prosecuted too as they drove the vehicle.

 

[John202020]

Arguing over the legalities isn't helping the op?

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

My experience of "legal experts" is that when you have to employ them the only people who come out of it "smiling" are the legal experts who make sure they are reimbursed in full regardless of the size of the honey pot.

From my understanding of the situation I think there are only two realistic courses of action.

You could quickly sell it on as it stands, declaring it to be an MOT failure and in need of repair before being put on the road. You don't need to actually list all you know about it but be prepared to produce the failure for scrutiny. There are lots of people out there who buy MOT failures if the body is in good nick, but the price you might realize will be only a fraction of what you've paid for it. However it is the "simple" course of action and gets the whole sorry mess settled quickly. If you get no takers you can always scrap it but that way you'll loose most of the money you paid for it.

The other option is to repair it and be prepared to run it into the ground as you're going to spend some real dosh if you can't do the spanner work yourself. If you're going to do this you need to have it carefully assessed against obvious future problems. Of course you could try to sell it after it's been repaired. If it looks really "nice n' shiny" and all the bits have been sorted you might get a good price from the likes of WBAC or other similar organizations. A garage won't want to give good money for an older vehicle. in a private sale Honest John recons it might be worth £1850 to £2500 with a realistic expectation of getting around £2150.

It comes back to assessing the present condition of the vehicle so that an informed choice can be made. If you want my opinion? If you were doing all the spanner work yourself I'd be strongly encouraging you to get stuck in! However with an older vehicle like this, if you're having to pay someone to do it all for you then it gets very difficult. If you were walking through my door - back in the days when I managed a workshop - although I used to feel very sorry for folk in dire straights like this, I was in business to make a living and the trouble with older vehicles is that so many things can go wrong due to rust and other unexpected problems. So, unless it was a regular customer or close friend, I would probably refuse the job (we were always busy and didn't need to chase work) If the workshop was quiet I might take it on with the understanding that if problems were encountered then labour would be charged by the hour and when you start down that road you're just issuing the workshop with a signed blank cheque!

I feel so sorry for you and angry at this low life for bringing the motor trade into disrepute. It's too late now but if you're going to buy another in the future and don't know anyone with mechanical knowledge who can accompany you then get the vehicle assessed by an engineer or the AA or other examiner. I know the AA do a basic vehicle inspection for around £140 and there are more local independent engineers who will charge less - take a look on line - for folk without mechanical knowledge, that's good value. If you have a "one make" specialist near you you'll often find they'll do an inspection even cheaper because they know their vehicles so well they know all the weak points. As an example, our local Audi/VAG specialist checked over my boy's A4 Avant for just over £70 when he bought it a year ago. They gave the vehicle a clean bill of health but mentioned that the front suspension top ball joints might need attention at the next MOT (a horrid job on this vehicle) and the rear spring mount rubbers were somewhat "relaxed". There's so much "tech" in this car I've decided I'm not going to get involved with it so it'll be going to them anyway for it's servicing and they can jolly well do the ball joints if needed!

Edit. PS. I bet if you'd mentioned an AA inspection to this chap you wouldn't have seen him for dust as he scooted off down the road!

 

[Cuppatea]

I'm sorry to say that getting a result from a small claims court case in 2 months is highly unlightly. I've been down this route for a car with a fault that only showed up after the car was purchased. It took over a year to resolve (Yes I won and got my money and costs back).
Now that having raised a claim you now have some responsibilities and restrictions. I assume you have rejected the car and asked for a full refund plus costs. You cannot use the car. You cannot repair the car. You must keep the car safe. Unless you can keep it locked up under cover it would be very unwise not to keep it insured. If you can keep it off the road talk to your insurance company and ask them if they will reduce the policy to cover it for storage only.

Did it have any MOT when you bought it? How did the seller deliver it? if it had no MOT they should not have driven it. It may interest the police more if you can tell them that they drove a car without MOT as well as selling you an unsafe vehicle. Of course you could not drive it either. Except to a pre-booked MOT test ro to a place were it was to be repaired.

Hi,

The car did have a MOT when delivered, it had two days left. So the seller was fine to drive it.

I will keep the car on my driveway and wait for the court case the conclude.

I will have a chat with the insurance company and see what they say about reducing the policy costs. Good idea. Thank you.

 

[Cuppatea]

My experience of "legal experts" is that when you have to employ them the only people who come out of it "smiling" are the legal experts who make sure they are reimbursed in full regardless of the size of the honey pot.

From my understanding of the situation I think there are only two realistic courses of action.

You could quickly sell it on as it stands, declaring it to be an MOT failure and in need of repair before being put on the road. You don't need to actually list all you know about it but be prepared to produce the failure for scrutiny. There are lots of people out there who buy MOT failures if the body is in good nick, but the price you might realize will be only a fraction of what you've paid for it. However it is the "simple" course of action and gets the whole sorry mess settled quickly. If you get no takers you can always scrap it but that way you'll loose most of the money you paid for it.

The other option is to repair it and be prepared to run it into the ground as you're going to spend some real dosh if you can't do the spanner work yourself. If you're going to do this you need to have it carefully assessed against obvious future problems. Of course you could try to sell it after it's been repaired. If it looks really "nice n' shiny" and all the bits have been sorted you might get a good price from the likes of WBAC or other similar organizations. A garage won't want to give good money for an older vehicle. in a private sale Honest John recons it might be worth £1850 to £2500 with a realistic expectation of getting around £2150.

It comes back to assessing the present condition of the vehicle so that an informed choice can be made. If you want my opinion? If you were doing all the spanner work yourself I'd be strongly encouraging you to get stuck in! However with an older vehicle like this, if you're having to pay someone to do it all for you then it gets very difficult. If you were walking through my door - back in the days when I managed a workshop - although I used to feel very sorry for folk in dire straights like this, I was in business to make a living and the trouble with older vehicles is that so many things can go wrong due to rust and other unexpected problems. So, unless it was a regular customer or close friend, I would probably refuse the job (we were always busy and didn't need to chase work) If the workshop was quiet I might take it on with the understanding that if problems were encountered then labour would be charged by the hour and when you start down that road you're just issuing the workshop with a signed blank cheque!

I feel so sorry for you and angry at this low life for bringing the motor trade into disrepute. It's too late now but if you're going to buy another in the future and don't know anyone with mechanical knowledge who can accompany you then get the vehicle assessed by an engineer or the AA or other examiner. I know the AA do a basic vehicle inspection for around £140 and there are more local independent engineers who will charge less - take a look on line - for folk without mechanical knowledge, that's good value. If you have a "one make" specialist near you you'll often find they'll do an inspection even cheaper because they know their vehicles so well they know all the weak points. As an example, our local Audi/VAG specialist checked over my boy's A4 Avant for just over £70 when he bought it a year ago. They gave the vehicle a clean bill of health but mentioned that the front suspension top ball joints might need attention at the next MOT (a horrid job on this vehicle) and the rear spring mount rubbers were somewhat "relaxed". There's so much "tech" in this car I've decided I'm not going to get involved with it so it'll be going to them anyway for it's servicing and they can jolly well do the ball joints if needed!

Edit. PS. I bet if you'd mentioned an AA inspection to this chap you wouldn't have seen him for dust as he scooted off down the road!

Thank you so much for your incredibly thoughtful response.

I think I will wait for the court case to go through the system and assuming I win (which I should) then at least I have a moral victory.

In terms of buying cars in the future, I will definitely definitely get the AA or a local garage to have a look. £200 for someone to help with purchasing is a bargain.


In all honesty, I feel a bit sad, and (at the moment )hope I don't need to buy a car, and just cycle, train or wall.

Once again, thank you for your post

 

[Cuppatea]

I'd agree. If the seller files a defence, it will take considerably longer, and there will almost certainly be more Court fees to pay.

I too have once taken a company to Court over faulty goods. The company chose to defend the case; it took 8 months to bring it to a conclusion. And this was before all the current backlog of COVID delays.

Although I won the case, and got paid, the effort and stress left me feeling like I'd lost more than I'd gained.


And if you aren't able to both win the case and enforce the terms of any judgment, the car will have been standing unused for what is likely to have been the best part of a year, you'll need to do something with it, and it will be worth considerably less than if you were to sell it now 'as is'. Stale petrol will have gummed up the fuel system, damp will have got into the electronics, and just getting it to start might prove difficult.

Sadly I'm coming to the conclusion that your best course of action may be to cut your losses, sell the car as is, and move on with your life. Paying someone else to fix this and then selling it once it's repaired isn't likely to leave you any better off financially.

I think you are right, perhaps I should just end the county court case and sell the car on eBay with a photo of the MOT and hopefully someone else can make lemonade from this lemon.


If I could sell it for £1k I would have lost £2k from this debacle.

If I hadn't bought the car I could have travelled on public transport for nearly a year for £2k

I am a crazy fool

 

[porta]

I think you are right, perhaps I should just end the county court case and sell the car on eBay with a photo of the MOT and hopefully someone else can make lemonade from this lemon.


If I could sell it for £1k I would have lost £2k from this debacle.

If I hadn't bought the car I could have travelled on public transport for nearly a year for £2k

I am a crazy fool

Continue with the court case, you never know, not only may you get your costs back, you may get a rogue trader disbarred

 

[AndyRKett]

I think you are right, perhaps I should just end the county court case and sell the car on eBay with a photo of the MOT and hopefully someone else can make lemonade from this lemon.


If I could sell it for £1k I would have lost £2k from this debacle.

If I hadn't bought the car I could have travelled on public transport for nearly a year for £2k

I am a crazy fool

Did you get a quote for the repairs?

If you had to spend £500 for the MOT but got £2000 back selling the car then getting the repairs done would be worth while.


I am going to be brutally honest here, you could go through the entire process to submit a claim and spend your own money (more money to do it) then go to court win and he still wins as he either immediately declares himself insolvent, or he has been bankrupt so many times already that nothing is in his name anyway and you end up chasing your tail just trying to work out who to claim from. At the end of it he still walks away with your £3k and is still smiling because he now feels he has got another one up on you.

Weigh up carefully if it is worth pursuing as stated above it can be a lot of hard work and pretty stressful.

If you have spoken to your insurance company, did you get the often optional Legal cover? if so they may be able to help?

I think I said before, if you paid 3k, sold it for 1k and you still had to go out and buy another car, spending another £3k to get you the car you thought you were getting would now make you £5k out of pocket and the new car could still have problems that need sorting out, if not at the time of purchase, then maybe in another 12 months at the next MOT.

Talk to the garage, get some quotes and ask their honest opinion if the car is worth repairing. Repairing the car in the long run may be your cheapest option and you would have the car you wanted.

 

[jrkitching]

If I could sell it for £1k I would have lost £2k from this debacle.

and you'd be 1k better off than if you did nothing and had to have it towed away for scrap in 12 months time.

Actually I think you might get more than that if you sold it as is. IIRC WBAC have offered you £1200, and they're not known for paying over the odds.

I've seen similar cars sell on ebay for closer to £2k. Personally I don't think they're worth it, but others obviously do.

If you are going to sell it as is, the sooner you do it, the more you'll get. Once it's been standing for months, it'll likely just be a parts pack.

you would have the car you wanted

I'm getting the impression that the OP doesn't want this car anymore. I'm thinking her feelings toward it have been soured by this experience and, frankly, who could blame her for that?

Repairing the car in the long run may be your cheapest option

It could also be the most expensive; this car has all the signs of being a complete money pit. The only person who's going to be financially better off if this car is repaired is the person who repairs it.

My view is that however much is spent on this car now, it's going to be a maintenance liability for the rest of its life for whoever owns it.

If you had to spend £500 for the MOT

Putting this safely back on the road for £500 is fanciful if you're paying someone else to do the work. It's quite a bit more than just a rear beam replacement, and even that doesn't look like it'd be straightforward, given the extent of the corrosion.

Asking the garage that did the last MOT for a quote to make it roadworthy is one way to get a more realistic estimate.

and you still had to go out and buy another car

I think the OP is going to put that idea on hold for a while.

That's certainly what I'd advise. From what I've seen of Bath, it's got a pretty good public transport service, and it's not a car-friendly city. I go there 2-3 times a year, but always by train. It's been 10+ years since I took a car into the city.

Last year, I had to wait at the side of the road for about an hour when the bus I was travelling on overheated and broke down. After about ten minutes, I was starting to feel frustrated and impatient. Then I looked at the growing pool of hot coolant on the road, smiled, and thought how grateful I was that this wasn't my problem.

I walked 100yds up the road and went into a cafe. I used the money I'd have spent on parking if I'd driven to buy a coffee and cake, and sat there until the replacement bus showed up.

Realistically, the kind of car that you could buy today for £3000 is perhaps best left to those who have the ability to maintain it themselves once they've bought it.

If someone without these skills and abilities wants to start motoring, I'd suggest they spend a little more and buy something newer.

 

[Piccolo Nero e Bella]

I'm not really qualified to offer any insight here but my instinct in this situation would be to cut my losses, flog the car, to a wrecker if necessary, and walk away.

 

[Pugglt Auld Jock]

Realistically, the kind of car that you could buy today for £3000 is perhaps best left to those who have the ability to maintain it themselves once they've bought it.

If someone without these skills and abilities wants to start motoring, I'd suggest they spend a little more and buy something newer.

I'm still very attracted to the idea of owning a practical classic - so something with good spares support like a Morris Minor for instance - I think for local running about it would do me just fine. Once you get to vehicles with a lot of electronics in them it all becomes much more problematic. The trouble with these vehicles is that old electronics and their associated connectors and wiring degrade and are just too unreliable. Fault finding them can turn out to be a nightmare. So buying something newer probably makes more sense.

I would add the over rider though that once you move out of "nearly new" territory then condition is everything. Some people mistreat their vehicles terribly - just watch how many around you in a traffic queue are riding their clutches and how often do you hear a loud crunch as someone engages reverse gear, I could go on - So, even with quite new vehicles, you're back into the area of assessing the vehicles condition before handing over the readies. Even with a lifetime's experience behind me I would never buy a car at the kerbside and I'd be very very careful about a private purchase. A main dealer might be a pretty sure bet (although you do occasionally hear horror stories) Many won't sell vehicles over 5 years old though - and the reason is? unsurprisingly, older vehicles have many more come backs due to unreliability! So, if you've no mechanical knowledge and don't have a good friend who "knows about cars" (and some know more than others) then look for a small trader with smart looking premises. If he keeps his premises well then he's probably got higher standards. A trader like this will very likely be buying the older vehicles which the main dealers don't want to sell. Indeed very often they will have an agreement to buy on a long term basis. I know a couple of the establishments where I worked had arrangements with local main dealers. Probably buying stock from auctions too which is where much of the older main dealer part exchanges end up, however the small dealer does this for a living and knows which vehicles are inherently problematic and also what to look out for on others. Also I'd avoid older vehicles with automatic gearboxes, There's not enough room here to detail why, just don't go there.

Now here's a question, something I've been wondering about for a while. Modern Direct Shift Gearboxes, so automatics, but not the older type with a torque converter. From what I understand these boxes have dry plate clutches? (some have more than one I see) so it's an automated clutch transferring the drive from the engine flywheel to the gearbox input. Now, people used to the older type automatics get used to being able to allow the vehicle to "creep" in very slow moving traffic. (gearbox in "D" drive with torque converter "slipping" on it's fluid). I've noticed cars obviously with modern "DSG" type boxes being "crept" in very slow moving traffic in much the same way except that you can hear the engine revs are being slightly increased over idle so they can creep. I guess this will be causing excessive wear to the clutch friction plates on these vehicles? What do you all think? another reason not to buy a used vehicle with a modern auto box?

 

[AndyRKett]

and you'd be 1k better off than if you did nothing and had to have it towed away for scrap in 12 months time.

Actually I think you might get more than that if you sold it as is. IIRC WBAC have offered you £1200, and they're not known for paying over the odds.

I've seen similar cars sell on ebay for closer to £2k. Personally I don't think they're worth it, but others obviously do.

If you are going to sell it as is, the sooner you do it, the more you'll get. Once it's been standing for months, it'll likely just be a parts pack.

I'm getting the impression that the OP doesn't want this car anymore. I'm thinking her feelings toward it have been soured by this experience and, frankly, who could blame her for that?

It could also be the most expensive; this car has all the signs of being a complete money pit. The only person who's going to be financially better off if this car is repaired is the person who repairs it.

My view is that however much is spent on this car now, it's going to be a maintenance liability for the rest of its life for whoever owns it.

Putting this safely back on the road for £500 is fanciful if you're paying someone else to do the work. It's quite a bit more than just a rear beam replacement, and even that doesn't look like it'd be straightforward, given the extent of the corrosion.

Asking the garage that did the last MOT for a quote to make it roadworthy is one way to get a more realistic estimate.

I think the OP is going to put that idea on hold for a while.

That's certainly what I'd advise. From what I've seen of Bath, it's got a pretty good public transport service, and it's not a car-friendly city. I go there 2-3 times a year, but always by train. It's been 10+ years since I took a car into the city.

Last year, I had to wait at the side of the road for about an hour when the bus I was travelling on overheated and broke down. After about ten minutes, I was starting to feel frustrated and impatient. Then I looked at the growing pool of hot coolant on the road, smiled, and thought how grateful I was that this wasn't my problem.

I walked 100yds up the road and went into a cafe. I used the money I'd have spent on parking if I'd driven to buy a coffee and cake, and sat there until the replacement bus showed up.

Realistically, the kind of car that you could buy today for £3000 is perhaps best left to those who have the ability to maintain it themselves once they've bought it.

If someone without these skills and abilities wants to start motoring, I'd suggest they spend a little more and buy something newer.

My reply to all of the above Is that I am trying to present both sides of the argument so that the OP can make her own decision and not push her one way or another.

What she does is up to here at the end of the day and keeping the car could equally be financially ruinous and getting rid cheaply will definitely cost her a fortune. so it is best to weigh up what the costs might be and what loss she is willing to take. Also to be aware that whether she buys a car tomorrow or in a years time, she is still running the risk of being back in the same position again with any new car she buys.

 

[vexorg]

Arguing over the legalities isn't helping the op?

Nothing posted here is going to help the OP, short of someone offering to fix it all.

 

[g8rpi]

I'm still very attracted to the idea of owning a practical classic -

BIG SNIP

Now here's a question, something I've been wondering about for a while. Modern Direct Shift Gearboxes, so automatics, but not the older type with a torque converter. From what I understand these boxes have dry plate clutches? (some have more than one I see) so it's an automated clutch transferring the drive from the engine flywheel to the gearbox input. Now, people used to the older type automatics get used to being able to allow the vehicle to "creep" in very slow moving traffic. (gearbox in "D" drive with torque converter "slipping" on it's fluid). I've noticed cars obviously with modern "DSG" type boxes being "crept" in very slow moving traffic in much the same way except that you can hear the engine revs are being slightly increased over idle so they can creep. I guess this will be causing excessive wear to the clutch friction plates on these vehicles? What do you all think? another reason not to buy a used vehicle with a modern auto box?

Yes they do have clutches, at least two, and most road cars use dry ones. The 6 speed DSG is basically two 3-speed boxes. The clutches switch between the boxes with the system having set the de-clutched box to the next gear required. So 1st, 3rd and 5th are in "box" A and 2nd, 4th and 6th are in "box" B.
Yes, creeping a DSG at low speed does cause excessive clutch wear.
The car I went to small claims over had a faulty 6 speed DSG. Never found out for sure but it appeared to be a clutch pack issue.

 

[Baglady1990]

I think you are right, perhaps I should just end the county court case and sell the car on eBay with a photo of the MOT and hopefully someone else can make lemonade from this lemon.


If I could sell it for £1k I would have lost £2k from this debacle.

If I hadn't bought the car I could have travelled on public transport for nearly a year for £2k

I am a crazy fool

You’re not crazy nor a fool …. You have just learned a lesson a valuable one!! Like so many of us have in the case of buying a car!
It’s shocking and right now you have lost out … in trust in a car and of course the money
However… if there’s one thing guaranteed in life it’s change! And things will and for the better!