Technical Rear Disc pads

[WitleyPanda]

Historically had issues with rear disc on diesel 4x4. Put down to low mileage/standing, but have increased mileage, circa 20K/year and daily usage. Need to strip NSR and was near metal to metal on outer pad. Lugs of pad backing plate are tight in stainless steel carrier, Had a box of pads Genuine FCA, with different springs. Without fettling would not fit? Have ordered up Pads and discs earily yesterday to replenish stock.

New pads arrived today, S4P34335 Rear Brake Pad Set Make & Model: Fiat Panda IV (2012>) 1.3 MultiJet 16v , Magneti Marelli from Shop4Parts, via UPS, very prompt. These have a metal anti squeal shoe/over-bracket and no Stainless Steel carrier/sliders with them. The image on the site shows a different version, Genuine FCA?, with the blue polymer anti squeal tape on the outer only. I had a box of these already, but they came with a different Stainless steel clip, more complex than was originally on the vehicle. I have Lucas calipers and difficult physically fitting either pads as out the box. Will post photos at the weekend, but any light any one can shed as to if correct pads for these calipers, how to actually fit and with which SS parts would be helpful. I will obviously talk to Mick tomorrow to check what he knows.

Peter

 

[lunchbeers]

Mine has suffered horribly with squealing brakes, from about a month after purchase despite periodically cleaning up the pads, springs and carriers, making them move freely and the sound comes back within days.

Last year I swapped them out for a new set of Pagid pads, cleaned the guides and springs and rewound the caliper pistons and so far so good, not a sound out of them for the last 6 months or so

My new pads came without the stainless springs and had the adhesive for the outer pads if that helps.

 

[WitleyPanda]

Mine has suffered horribly with squealing brakes, from about a month after purchase despite periodically cleaning up the pads, springs and carriers, making them move freely and the sound comes back within days.

Last year I swapped them out for a new set of Pagid pads, cleaned the guides and springs and rewound the caliper pistons and so far so good, not a sound out of them for the last 6 months or so

My new pads came without the stainless springs and had the adhesive for the outer pads if that helps.

Thanks, good? to know I am not alone. By dressing the pads and ceramic grease I can mask the issue for more than 12 month now. ( Daily use/higher mileage help.) I assume you used the old stainless clips again? Problem particularly annoying because worse wear is on outer pad and wear indicator on inner. ( pips on pad backs prevent swap over.)

 

[WitleyPanda]

It was suggest that the vehicle has had alternative calipers fitted, but they look like these on this video I just have the standard E18 headed bolts, rather than cap head sockets, but irrelevant to just pad change.

 

[Panda IIs]

It was suggest that the vehicle has had alternative calipers fitted, but they look like these on this video I just have the standard E18 headed bolts, rather than cap head sockets, but irrelevant to just pad change.

Err, I wouldn't take this video as an example of "best practice..." also since I believe 2012+ Pandas only have discs on the 4x4 version there's a bit more to it if you are really trying to remove the caliper bracket as the lads in the video were.

To do just pads separate the caliper from the caliper bracket (or carrier if you prefer) by removing the slider pins. Ensure the bores for these pins are cleaned thoroughly plus the pins themselves. Pads seem to vary by manufacturer; the last ones I swapped had an additional "curly" spring on the ..shims to encourage retraction of the pad. Personally I've not encountered the squeaky symptoms variously described by folk - except when the wear indicators engage.

 

[WitleyPanda]

Err, I wouldn't take this video as an example of "best practice..." also since I believe 2012+ Pandas only have discs on the 4x4 version there's a bit more to it if you are really trying to remove the caliper bracket as the lads in the video were.

To do just pads separate the caliper from the caliper bracket (or carrier if you prefer) by removing the slider pins. Ensure the bores for these pins are cleaned thoroughly plus the pins themselves. Pads seem to vary by manufacturer; the last ones I swapped had an additional "curly" spring on the ..shims to encourage retraction of the pad. Personally I've not encountered the squeaky symptoms variously described by folk - except when the wear indicators engage.

Agree, a long, long way from best practice and no reason to remove frame. just one that shows the geometry of the caliper. Been changing pads for nearly 50 years and done the Panda's several times in recent years. I don't think you mean remove the spider pins, just the bolts that hold them ! ( It worth checking pins actually slide in bores once unbolted.) I have a FCA set with the curly springs, do nothing to encourage retraction, just hold the pad from falling out whilst you put the caliper back in place. EDIT: I could see how they might IF there was sufficient clearance between pad end and clip, but i have zero clearance !!!! These are so tight in the cage that no chance of them falling out, which is the issue.
The squeal and seizing is like Marmite, you get it or you don't. I am coming to the conclusion that the machining tolerances varied on the cage machining, then if you get a lot of nearside water together with infrequent, low mileage you more prone. I may well however do as the boys and strip the cage/bracket and shot blast and even re-machine, zinc and Phoshate whilst I am at it. Post some picture over the week end.

 

[lunchbeers]

Thanks, good? to know I am not alone. By dressing the pads and ceramic grease I can mask the issue for more than 12 month now. ( Daily use/higher mileage help.) I assume you used the old stainless clips again? Problem particularly annoying because worse wear is on outer pad and wear indicator on inner. ( pips on pad backs prevent swap over.)

Yep, just replaced the pads for new, all other bits reused.

Everything cleaned to within an inch of its life (including stainless clips).

Ceratec grease used for pad backing and sliding parts, caliper sliders fully cleaned and greased with rubber grease.

My car is used daily doing about 8k+ a year, prior to that it’d only covered just shy of 11k in 8 years.

 

[WitleyPanda]

I am going to go with 70%+ molybdenum Disulphate/disulphide ? grease on the sliders, since if forms a near permanent low friction molecular surface ( like a PTFE layer), the rubber sleeves just dust shields. Was less than 4k year, now 20K, so disc might last longer, rather than rust away, but can see me doing the pads ever 18months.

 

[WitleyPanda]

Confirm Lucas branded frame. Looks exactly like other makes that seen images for, so who the original designers and who the clones/copies no idea? Issue is accumulated corrosion on machined zone where the stainless steel carrier clip fits. Interesting that the spider pins are different. Top has the rotating sleeve, bottom just a pin with vent flats. With very rigorous cleaning/fettling, wire brush/file and the brake and clutch cleaner could eventually get original? non spring return version of clips into frame and pads in with some float. ( including taking paint off pad tabs for extra clearance. When it warmer, dyer and got more time will strip frame, re-machine and phosphate whilst changing discs.