R.I.P. Maggie

[scout]

As I recall, The majority of the people in this country were behind Maggie when she went to war over the Falklands, and only the papers were upset about the Belgranno, and were right behind her when she took on the unions. Most people in this country were sick and tired of being held to ransom every year by the unions demanding more money, less hours etc. and sick of the Labour Government caving in because the unions funded them. She may have gone to far but as Einstein says For every action there is an equal and opposite reaction. The unions pushed hard and the Government pushed hard the other way. That time the government won and the unions and their supporters have been crying ever since remembering the glory days when they could dictate government policy.

This country has never been a democracy.

The country voted to join the Common Market - a loose trading partnership
Since then (70's) it has turned into the EU, no one voted for it (even though we've been promised a referendum by all governments) and we are headed for a Federal Europe where we won't even have a say in who runs it . That doesn't sound like a democracy to me that sounds like politicians indulging in self serving practices to me. Look at Blair, took us to war in the middle east and is now being paid shed loads of money to be an "EU Middle East Peace Envoy".

 

[Stu DemonD]

You may not have been born when she was pm or may choose not to remember or may choose to remember the good bits and forget the bad.

I am 40 years old, I lived through all of her terms - I have no issues with what she did overall for this country or my family - but then again, we lived in the South and my father was a professional, like I am now

At the end of the day, how dare YOU tell me that I am stupid because I had no issues with her OR YOU feel that I don't know the bigger picture. I know exactly what she did, good and bad for this country - but it is still MY choice whether I like or dislike her - that decision isn't for YOU to make

 

[chaos]

You may not have been born when she was pm or may choose not to remember or may choose to remember the good bits and forget the bad.

Playing devil's advocate, here's a question for you...

how come Margaret Thatcher won 3 general elections (with healthy seat majorities in the 1983 and 1987 elections) if the country hated her as you say she was?

 

[dave]

Playing devil's advocate, here's a question for you...

how come Margaret Thatcher won 3 general elections (with healthy seat majorities in the 1983 and 1987 elections) if the country hated her as you say she was?

the voting system in the uk is naff and people don't vote because of it.

 

[dave]

How stupid can people be?

£75bn in rebate's since 1984, oh joy and how many £trillions to stay in the EU?????????
£5 million for policing to keep away the idiot protestors.......
Doesn't that tell you something...
Doesn't that tell you how hated and despised this thing/woman was...
Doesn't that tell you idiots just what misery she caused the majority of the population, the poor, the ill, the disabled, the destitute...
The most vulnerable in society...
The easy/soft targets

You may not have been born when she was pm or may choose not to remember or may choose to remember the good bits and forget the bad.

But remember this.
We are told we live in a FREE Democracy and that right and good will prevail.
The overwhelming opinion of the country is that Margret Thatcher SHOULD NOT have a state funded funeral, whether good ,bad or indifferent.
What ever happened to the words of our current illustrious leader and his lackey......
WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER

you will never convince the selfish sod you jack i'm all right members of society,

 

[scout]

the voting system in the uk is naff and people don't vote because of it.

They don't now but back in the 80's the majority did.

Also the people who advocate that voting doesn't count, so don't vote, give up the right to complain. If you don't vote, don't complain about the result.
Every vote counts however warped the system is.

During Tony's reign the conservatives got more votes but were beaten into a landslide defeat because of the way the borders of the wards are moved around. (this ward movement is not just restricted to Labour the conservatives do it too )

 

[PuntoHowTo]

How stupid can people be?

It seems very stupid

£75bn in rebate's since 1984, oh joy and how many £trillions to stay in the EU????????? Because of what we pay in and what we get back from the rebate we actually pay very little in so a few £billion over the last 29 years certainly but definitely nowhere near £trillions


£5 million for policing to keep away the idiot protestors.......
Doesn't that tell you something...
yep, there are awful lot of idiot protestors who would sooner cost the nation millions to make some idiotic point about a woman who is dead

Doesn't that tell you how hated and despised this thing/woman was...
Doesn't that tell you idiots just what misery she caused the majority of the population, the poor, the ill, the disabled, the destitute...
The most vulnerable in society...
The easy/soft targets. about 23% of the population think like this but then again what are you personally doing to help the vulnerable of society people if you feel so strongly?

You may not have been born when she was pm or may choose not to remember or may choose to remember the good bits and forget the bad.nobody is forgetting the bad bits just prefer to remember the facts

But remember this.
We are told we live in a FREE Democracy and that right and good will prevail.
The overwhelming opinion of the country is that Margret Thatcher SHOULD NOT have a state funded funeral, whether good ,bad or indifferent.
What ever happened to the words of our current illustrious leader and his lackey......
WE ARE ALL IN THIS TOGETHER

Again the issue is 'state funded' not the level of funeral, as said before if it wasn't for the threats to the funeral it would be a damn site cheaper

The political system hasn't changed for hundreds of years in the uk, I suppose if you really don't like it should have two choices 1 do something about it because moaning and whining never changed anything, or 2 move to another country where the system is better....... Would love to hear your recommendations on that front

 

[sludgeguts]

Saw a comment on another forum regarding the state funding, some for it, some agin it but one comment really caught my eye & kind of sums up a portion of the electorate that really shouldn't be allowed to vote...

"why are people so upset about the cost? The goverment [sic] are paying so it won't cost us anything"

Makes me scared to leave my house, knowing these people are out there - probably even driving around


And I know there's more out there - had to sit through an episode of celebrity juice & they had some essex bloke on. I thought he was just playing stupid for the show but my lads assured me - he's always like this

 

[Notorious131]

I am 40 years old, I lived through all of her terms - I have no issues with what she did overall for this country or my family - but then again, we lived in the South and my father was a professional, like I am now

At the end of the day, how dare YOU tell me that I am stupid because I had no issues with her OR YOU feel that I don't know the bigger picture. I know exactly what she did, good and bad for this country - but it is still MY choice whether I like or dislike her - that decision isn't for YOU to make

Did I call you stupid. No I did not. You took that on by yourself.

A professional what, are you implying you are better than everyone else as you are a professional?
Who says your a professional? Define professional.
Is a shelf stacker not a professional are you some sort of elitist.
I too am a so called professional. I too prospered in the Thatcher years.
I am a proud Northerner, educated Northerner.

The Thatcher family are worth millions and please don't bore me by saying they worked for. They should pay for their own mothers funeral and not the state. If that had of been the case then their would not be so much anger at this situation.

You are correct I have no right to make your choices for you, so then why can this government ignore the people and me and then make choices for me.

I do vote at every election so I have as much right as anybody else to state my feelings on a public forum.

I make no presumptions for or about anybody else here so don't make them on or about me.

 

[ban1111]

They don't now but back in the 80's the majority did.

Also the people who advocate that voting doesn't count, so don't vote, give up the right to complain. If you don't vote, don't complain about the result.
Every vote counts however warped the system is.

During Tony's reign the conservatives got more votes but were beaten into a landslide defeat because of the way the borders of the wards are moved around. (this ward movement is not just restricted to Labour the conservatives do it too )

http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk_politics/election_2010/8654338.stm

no they didn't, please lets stick to proper facts and that includes both parties changing the wards borders.
Also on another post don't recall by who, the topic of the Sun and there readers was bought into question as a anti thatcher retort! except whoever said it cannot be old enough to recall the Sun was indeed a Tory properganda rag throughout the 80s until 1997.have no idea who it backs now as i dont read the papers unless i need a good laugh..

 

[chaos]

the voting system in the uk is naff and people don't vote because of it.

Hmm...knock it down to the simplest way of voting - the number of votes cast for each party. The Tories won the most for each election they won, much like Tony Blair did in 1997 and every general election since. The winning majority for each election was in the millions of votes.

Therefore, you could conclude that there was a significant proportion of people who felt that Thatcher/the Tories was the best candidate offered for the job of running the UK. Same as what has happened in every general election since (the Conservatives got more votes than Labour in 2010 with the Liberal Democrats getting a much larger vote than they did historically).

If it had been the other way around, and the Tories had gained more than seats than Labour despite Labour gaining the most votes, then your reasoning would have more substance.

As the last and 1997 general elections illustrated, if sufficent people aren't happy with the way the country is governed, then it will change, regardless of voting system.

During Tony's reign the conservatives got more votes but were beaten into a landslide defeat because of the way the borders of the wards are moved around. (this ward movement is not just restricted to Labour the conservatives do it too )

You mean the 2005 election? Labour got more votes than the Tories (although not all that much more); the increase in popularity for the Liberal Democrats also had an effect.

 

[Notorious131]

It seems very stupid



The political system hasn't changed for hundreds of years in the uk, I suppose if you really don't like it should have two choices 1 do something about it because moaning and whining never changed anything, or 2 move to another country where the system is better....... Would love to hear your recommendations on that front

An extremely valid point , you are truly wise beyond all measure.

Choice 1 Do something about it because moaning and whining never changed anything.
What you mean something like protest and express my distain and disgust, Can't do that as people like you and the Authorities won't allow it. Public order etc.. etc...

 

[dave]

recently essex county council made a hight street in a town near me a buses and taxi only street. everybody who didn't like it was posting on the local papers website they are voting ukip next time because of it.

the scheme didn't work and essex county council did a u turn and put the road back to how it was, now everybody on the other side of the arguement who wanted it to stay buses and taxis only are saying they are going to vote ukip next time because of it.

ukip are going to get a lot of votes but not many people know any of their policies or they know their policies but not how ukip are going to fix things,

UKIP say they are not racist, i don't know if they are but i know a lot of people who start out by saying i'm not a racist usually follow it with a very racist statement :chin:

 

[dave]

Hmm...knock it down to the simplest way of voting - the number of votes cast for each party. The Tories won the most for each election they won, much like Tony Blair did in 1997 and every general election since. The winning majority for each election was in the millions of votes.

Therefore, you could conclude that there was a significant proportion of people who felt that Thatcher/the Tories was the best candidate offered for the job of running the UK. Same as what has happened in every general election since (the Conservatives got more votes than Labour in 2010 with the Liberal Democrats getting a much larger vote than they did historically).

If it had been the other way around, and the Tories had gained more than seats than Labour despite Labour gaining the most votes, then your reasoning would have more substance.

As the last and 1997 general elections illustrated, if sufficient people aren't happy with the way the country is governed, then it will change, regardless of voting system.

you are only counting the people that voted, not the ones that lost faith in the whole system and didn't vote. maybe voting should be law, some may still spoil their papers when they get there, but others who are to depressed to go an vote may actually vote instead of just moaning if they are there anyway.

 

[PuntoHowTo]

An extremely valid point , you are truly wise beyond all measure.

Choice 1 Do something about it because moaning and whining never changed anything.
What you mean something like protest and express my distain and disgust, Can't do that as people like you and the Authorities won't allow it. Public order etc.. etc...

So when did you last write to your local MP? Attend one of their many surgeries? Better still with all the answers, put yourself forward as a political candidate go door to door explaining the issues and how you plan to change and improve them, canvas for people's votes, stand in an election?

All things that thatcher did Major, Blair, Brown and Cameron as well as every other of the 650 MPs currently in the Houses of Parliament. Every one has the same chances and opportunities to make a difference, so go make it and stop moaning, when did protest ever achieve anything anyway? You have to make the ultimate sacrifice and go and be counted where you're voice has a chance of being heard, I'm pretty certain the the fiat forum isn't the go to place for political agenda for the major parties.

But then I guess your sarcastic response goes to show where you really stand, moaning and whining is the most you will ever do. :worship:

 

[chaos]

What you mean something like protest and express my distain and disgust, Can't do that as people like you and the Authorities won't allow it. Public order etc.. etc...

Please correct me if I'm wrong, but there is nothing against peaceful protests in this country. It's when things get rowdy, then violent, then public order offences come in. This leads to part of the reason for the security measures that have been put in place for Thatcher's funeral. It's not just for the maintenance of the attending monarchy's safety, or that of the world's dignitaries who have indicated their attendance. It's to make sure that while it maintains a person's right to peaceful protest, it also maintains the right of a person who wishes to attend the funeral to pay their respects.

 

[chaos]

you are only counting the people that voted, not the ones that lost faith in the whole system and didn't vote. maybe voting should be law, some may still spoil their papers when they get there, but others who are to depressed to go an vote may actually vote instead of just moaning if they are there anyway.

Counting those who voted is the only factual way of doing it, there could be other reasons other than 'didn't have faith in the voting system'.

 

[Stu DemonD]

Did I call you stupid. No I did not. You took that on by yourself.

You quoted me, then the next sentence was 'how stupid can people be?'.

I will read into that what I will, I have seen and read enough now I am bored

PS my partner is from Newcastle, you are a Southerner to her

 

[pooroldcodger]

This woman created so much misery. How many people died because of her immoral and probably illegal actions and how many people committed suicide as result of her legislations.
Which illegal actions are these?
Do you have any evidence for this?

She allowed people in positions of power to do as they wished with little or no punishment/ramifications for their actions therefore as a result in life as in death she bears that responsibility.
Has the idea of democratic accountability completely by-passed you?
Again, what evidence do you have for this diatribe?

She may well deserve a dignified funeral service??
However it should not be one with military honours and at the cost of the tax payer, especially when the public are so obviously showing their DISGUST at footing the £10 MILLION cost!


Apparently we live in a DEMOCRATIC SOCIETY, governed by MP's elected to SERVE THE INTEREST OF THEIR CONSTIGUENTS.
Let true DEMOCRACY show then.....

Or due we live a DEMOCRATIC DICTATORSHIP where our interest are only served when it suit the government and the MP's

I say DING DONG>>>DING DONG THE WITCH IS DEAD

I say that for somebody who claims to be educated, you show a remarkable lack of respect.

 

[Notorious131]

Respect is earned.