Technical Punto Jerking

[oktopod]

Just to refresh, my problem is kangoorooing, when I step on accelerate it goes away, sometimes needs a little clutch assist...gets worse when car is cold, sometimes it starts jumping like in Snoop Dogs videos
Now, everything mentioned above, I've changed, except checking lambda sensor, and I have KN filter....but I don't wanna waste more time or money on this subject...

So I got frustrated abbout this Fiat stuff AGAIN :bang:

Can they make a car that goes well in low rpms (normal driving), clutch that doesnt die that soon, brakes that dont hit hard without a reason sometimes, EPS that works without squeeling sounds and failing here and there...acctually can they make a proper car, not only the looks? I mean, c'mon all you Fiat lovers - me haters out there, let's be realistic, the stuff I listed are common faults, and yet they are bare essentials (engine, brakes, steering)

In this case of jerking, I think they can't make an engine that will rev upto 8k rpms as it does and still go well at 2.5k

 

[bkr57]

Bored at work, so decided to see what was on offer relating to Punto's on ebay, and I found an ECU for £125 from ecu-testing.com. As they are selling/refurbishing them, I presume there must be a problem with Punto ecu's on the 1.2 8V. I'm going to email them with a question or two, and report back when I've got some answers. It seems we are all having the same problem with the same engine from a similar year, mine's a 2001.
I'm thinking maybe Fiat are keeping quiet about a problem they are well aware off.

 

[bkr57]

Me again, more digging on the internet and found a unit at autotekelectronics.co.uk
and probably only for about £35.
I'm not sure now, but they look like the same units to me.

More digging and found this on www.peacockandpurvey.co.uk

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Fiat Punto ECU[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]1.2 litre Year 2000 - onwards[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]ECU Type - Magneti Marelli IAW 59F[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]ECU location: Fitted to the back of the throttle housing[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Price: £135 with two year warranty[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Delivery: Next working day before 1pm[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]These Punto ECU’s are failing in huge numbers causing the engine to misfire on two cylinders, the fault is originaly caused by the ignition coil spiking back to the ECU and blowing the coil drivers inside the ECU. When the ECU is changed the coils should be replaced at the same time to avoid any possible damage to the new ECU.[/SIZE][/FONT]

As I've mentioned before, Fiat must know of this fault, shouldn't there be a RECALL?

 

[lottie_]

i've got an after market air filter, but my car has just been serviced (new air filter, new spark plugs) and it's just as jerky as ever at low revs.

i am starting to think as someone has said above, the engine just isn't designed for a good ride at low revs. i am going to have to learn to be an awesomely predictive driver to get my car at just the right rpms, i guess. the one thing i really miss from my skoda is the revmeter*.

*you know what i mean!

 

[oktopod]

When I think of it, maybe its not the ECU or the engine, could be the transmission also...Anyway it sounds like a common fault

My car is also 2001, engine is 1.2 16V, but I'm not sure of the year cause it has been changed by previous owner (now old engine died cause of his fault, it was drinkin oil misteriously, like this new one does also, and he managed to run out of oil after all day hard drive)

 

[The Sultan]

Me again, more digging on the internet and found a unit at autotekelectronics.co.uk
and probably only for about £35.
I'm not sure now, but they look like the same units to me.

More digging and found this on www.peacockandpurvey.co.uk

[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]Fiat Punto ECU[/SIZE][/FONT]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]1.2 litre Year 2000 - onwards[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]ECU Type - Magneti Marelli IAW 59F[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]ECU location: Fitted to the back of the throttle housing[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Price: £135 with two year warranty[/FONT][/SIZE]
[SIZE=-1][FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif]Delivery: Next working day before 1pm[/FONT][/SIZE]
[FONT=Verdana,Tahoma,Arial,Helvetica,sans-serif][SIZE=-1]These Punto ECU’s are failing in huge numbers causing the engine to misfire on two cylinders, the fault is originaly caused by the ignition coil spiking back to the ECU and blowing the coil drivers inside the ECU. When the ECU is changed the coils should be replaced at the same time to avoid any possible damage to the new ECU.[/SIZE][/FONT]

As I've mentioned before, Fiat must know of this fault, shouldn't there be a RECALL?

it's not quite that simple you need an ecu of the same part number they may be different even if it's still a 1.2 petrol air con for instance is different ecu

also that rubish about replacing coils is just to cover them selves and there reconditioned product from posible but highly unlikely damage it also gives them an excuse not to replace a faulty product

coils spiking the ecu is nothing to do with the failures

you do not need to replace them aswell

 

[oktopod]

First I thought thanx god it's not happenin to me, then I thought I was halucinating, but last night I'm 100% sure - MY ENGINE MANAGEMENT LIGHT FLASHED!!!It flashed for a milisecond, but I saw it, it happened while jerking and accelerating.

So now we now all the simptoms, can some more experienced site members help?

And why dont you make it a sticky, so many of us has the same problem which no garage can solve, they just say that's the way it is, and most of them blame Italian electronics...
You don't wanna keep people from buying Fiat? I think they should know this before buying one! If I did, I would save more money for some other make.

 

[Tris Harris]

First I thought thanx god it's not happenin to me, then I thought I was halucinating, but last night I'm 100% sure - MY ENGINE MANAGEMENT LIGHT FLASHED!!!It flashed for a milisecond, but I saw it, it happened while jerking and accelerating.

So now we now all the simptoms, can some more experienced site members help?

And why dont you make it a sticky, so many of us has the same problem which no garage can solve, they just say that's the way it is, and most of them blame Italian electronics...
You don't wanna keep people from buying Fiat? I think they should know this before buying one! If I did, I would save more money for some other make.

Do you find it that annoying? maybe mine isn't as bad as everyone elses? Definately wouldn't stop me buying a mk2 punto! best looking car for the money!

 

[oktopod]

Off course it boters me that I cant drive at slow speeds, engine light flashes, steering fails....what else should I ignore cause of the looks?

 

[Tris Harris]

Off course it boters me that I cant drive at slow speeds, engine light flashes, steering fails....what else should I ignore cause of the looks?

has your steering failed? i wouldn't drive it if it had. You can drive it at low speeds if you caress the clutch a bit or keep your foot slightly on the accelerator. Maybe its because mine isn't as bad as everyone elses? i only tend to get it in second gear with no revs hardly so i just put my foot on the accelerator slightly and it stops.

 

[The Sultan]

you had the icv changed why not try the throttle position sensor that may inprove the cars idea of how much throttle you really want

they can be bought separate and dealers should have a tool to remove the old one and fit a new one

 

[oktopod]

Why don't I do this, why don't I do that....Will someone donate me the money to change so many expencive parts just to see IF I fix the problem...

I spoke with a friend of mine, he kept his problem quiet untill I told him abbout mine....he has a 2001 Bravo gt 1.6 16V, and he has the same problem!!! He went to a few garages, they told him, "mate, live with it, or start spending money with a question if you will fix the probem, and there are so many Fiats with this problem"

My steering works, but 2 times EPS light turned on, once EPS turned off, once it didn't. I saw from other posts that it's just the way it is.

I know how to drive in order not to jerk, but when it's cold it means a lot of rev when starting to move, and it will kill the clutch.

Since I see this as a common faults, I'm not gonna waste more money to change all kind of sensors on a car like this. Just gonna live with it.

But I think it's fair to list it as a common fault and sticky it.

 

[Fram]

Can I just say to those people who are saying, change this and change that...If you look at all the posts on this subject on this site and there are least a hundred of them if not more, then you will discover that people HAVE changed everything, but with little or no success, thats the problem!! What we are trying to do is come up with a way to try and fix it, by pooling members knowledge, doing a little bit of research together to come up with a solution.
This is a perfect example of how this and other sites should work, and if we carry on then we may come up with a solution!!

To my mind the failing ECU is the most plausible so far BECAUSE on one persons engine or another everything else mechanical or electrical has been chenged.
Thanks
Fram.

 

[The Sultan]

Can I just say to those people who are saying, change this and change that...If you look at all the posts on this subject on this site and there are least a hundred of them if not more, then you will discover that people HAVE changed everything, but with little or no success, thats the problem!! What we are trying to do is come up with a way to try and fix it, by pooling members knowledge, doing a little bit of research together to come up with a solution.
This is a perfect example of how this and other sites should work, and if we carry on then we may come up with a solution!!

To my mind the failing ECU is the most plausible so far BECAUSE on one persons engine or another everything else mechanical or electrical has been chenged.
Thanks
Fram.

i think the best way to save expense is find too members with this problem on the same model of car one of them preferably technically minded

then spend a day swapping bits from one car to another and see what happens at work if we have a really troublesome fault on a car and don't want to risk money on it we often resort to finding a loan car or such and swapping bits

 

[Tris Harris]

i think the best way to save expense is find too members with this problem on the same model of car one of them preferably technically minded

then spend a day swapping bits from one car to another and see what happens at work if we have a really troublesome fault on a car and don't want to risk money on it we often resort to finding a loan car or such and swapping bits

That seems like a good idea, id offer my car but i dont think my problem is as bad as everyone elses.

 

[The Sultan]

no actually now i think about it and i read the hole thread

your all on 2001 2002 basically pre face lift

well dealers have an ecu flash disk for updating engine ecus and such

i'm not sure exactly when we got it but the point is fiat are continually updating software on car ecus during production and releasing new cd's for us to use

i have driven cars with similar problems but of the face lift cars i have driven not one

if you go to your dealer and ask them to flash your ecu

i cant understand why they would not do this anyway now that i think about it that's exactly what i would do if you're car came to me

it affectively convert a 2001 ecu into a 2004/5 ecu

here is a few basic facts about your faults

with the throttle fully or nearly fully shut according to the throttle position sensor and the engine a both about 2.5k rpm the ecu stops injecting completely 1 it saves fuel 2 it increases engine braking

but as the revs drop it has to gradually start injecting fuel again to stop the engine from stalling obviously

from what you have said it seems like this period of beginning to inject again is coming in a bit to violently or lumpily causing rev to hold at a both 2k for a second or 2 then continue to drop

i'm sure if you all had your ecu's updated it would solve the problem with a later smoother map

so i think the real problem here is dealers
not using there equipment to it's full potential

in most small dealers there are one or 2 techs that know about this stuff
so if they were busy at the time with another job your car would have been given to a less experienced mechanic and pondered over for a wile a they don't know the full ins an outs of what they can do with test quipment

it's only when you keep coming back with this fault that it will end up in the hands of an expert

the more i read on here about peoples visits to the dealer and the stories of diagnostic techniques they used that got them nowhere nearer the fault

is it any wonder fiat have a bad reputation for dealer satisfaction

i feel like piking the hole lot up and giving it a right good shake and see what crap falls out then sweep that under the carpet and start again but I'm only one person what can i do

 

[oktopod]

ECU flashing sounds as a reasonable solution

FIAT is a poor dealership as you said, at my country there's only one place you can go to and they charge 50 EUR for good morning...
But I know one place where they can do much more than pure diagnostic, so I'll try there first, first I gotta get da money...

Can't wait to do it, cause I love software and IT, that's my call

 

[Fram]

hi littlepip,
Thanks for that info on updating the ECU, its got to be worth a try, like you say it's only happening on cars that have a certain software, so updating the software sounds like a good option and one I shall certainly be enquiring about. Once I have some prices etc..I will post them on here for all to share, and possibly some good news if it works. How ever if its a knackered ECU due to the coils spiking then this should also be verified by a software update shouldn't it?
Thanks
Fram.

 

[The Sultan]

hi littlepip,
Thanks for that info on updating the ECU, its got to be worth a try, like you say it's only happening on cars that have a certain software, so updating the software sounds like a good option and one I shall certainly be enquiring about. Once I have some prices etc..I will post them on here for all to share, and possibly some good news if it works. How ever if its a knackered ECU due to the coils spiking then this should also be verified by a software update shouldn't it?
Thanks
Fram.

coils have never caused ecu to go faulty on these cars it's just the excuse many dealers use when they have replaced the coils first before realising the ecu is at fault

another example of people that should not be working on cars

 

[Superfly]

Littlepip, 2004/5 cars have Bosch Motronic, we all have Magnetti-Marelli, it's a no go on the software. In fact, the trouble we're experiencing is probably why FIAT finally went for Bosch. It's also drive by wire, so the tb configuration will be different.

Mine is certainly better behaved when it's cold and in the cooler weather, if it is a common trait of the engine, then a lot of preople may not even notice as they 'power and coast' instead of the correct way of leaving it in gear and utilising engine braking.

I'm guessing its just the evidence of all the oily gunk that builds up in the tb over 7 years, getting into pots, sensors, etc. I've never had engine management flash up, no codes stored in ECU, never mis-fires. The other reason i'm more sure its mechanical is because it doesn't always do it. Like I said, I'm going to give my tb a very intensive clean (no-one has had it in bits yet...) and see if it improves, just not had the time...