Technical Project Paolo

[the hobbler]

have you thought of getting yourself a body rotisserie? There was 1 for sale in the 'Fiat 500 enthusiasts club' magazine s few months ago--bolted straight onto a 500--makes it a darn sight easier to do the bodywork (for a start, no upsidedown welding)

 

[Franko500]

Hi Damian,
Been there, done that and appreciate what a job it is.
Well worth while in the end, and you know you have uncovered any hidden rust. It seems like ages ago since I done this part so I just checked my photos. As Peter said they are lifting platforms for either Jacking or resting the vehicle (subject to floor strength). They are made from quite thick steel and I found the easiest way to remove them was to remove the floor panel then grind the spot welds through on the floor side. Then you can reuse them unless they are corroded too much. I had ordered 2 new ones before I had checked these thoroughly so I fitted my new ones. But I have kept the old ones which will get used on my 500D probably.
I found it easiest to weld them to the floor before fitting the floor. I drilled holes in the floor panel and plug welded them, that way you get a stronger weld on the thicker steel. Grind any heads off, fit the floor and then its all covered by the sound pad.
Your 500 is sure looking better than mine did when I bought it.

 

[fiat500]

_JAN0566 by peterthompson, on Flickr
Another thought..not sure you really need the "pads". They are a mud trap and make it hard to paint or underseal beneath.
A rotisserie would be nice but that's extra messing about if you make one or expense to buy one.
One advantage of the wee Fiat is that it is a bit of a pushover.

 

[Paolo66]

Am I right in thinking that to replace the floor on the inside you drill through the spot welds on the tunnel? If thats right and you do the floor both sides then the only thing holding the tunnel in are a few spot welds at the back? If thats the case isn't it worth removing the tunnel so you can treat the floor inside it? Or am I creating unnecessary work. My thoughts are there is surface rust in there that might become a problem 5-10 years time. I only want to do this car once!
Damian

 

[Franko500]

ooh, now you are entering into the realms of major panel work.
the floor panels you have are designed to sit on top of the spot welded flange of the tunnel.
I covered this bit in my thread to a certain extent. if it is light surface rust due to bare/primed metal then you may want to leave it be. just coat with waxoyl.
To remove the tunnel is a fair amount of work. Usually you just clean up the tunnel lip, drill holes in the floor edge and plug weld them in place.
I removed the tunnel, but that was because the floor panel beneath it was very coroded as was the tunnel.

 

[the hobbler]

Hi Damian;
If I am teaching you to 'suck eggs' I apologise, but BEFORE you remove the floor(s) put some bracing into the car so that you don't loose shape--it also gives you something to work against if you have to do any 'jiggling'--when somebody (in the mists of time) repaired my 500 I don't think that they did this as the n/s is 3/8ths inch shorter than the o/s--something that I will have to sort in the fullness of time (and a deeper pocket--moving house has a nasty habit of creating a very shallow pocket)

 

[Paolo66]

Tom
I'm only going to do one floor at a time and I've made a brace which bolts to the door hinge nuts and door lock nuts. That should ensure no twisting occurs and that my doors should just refit back in with the original gaps

 

[fiat500]

When I did mine I kept the car on its wheels and level and as said, did one floor section at a time, then the outer sills, removing and replacing one at a time, then repaired the inner sills.

The only bracing that became apparent to be needed is in the other direction; the driver's door "A" post showed signs of moving slightly inwards at the bottom so I wedged a length of timber between it and the tunnel to keep things in place.
DSC_7869 by peterthompson, on Flickr
The roof on mine was in a very poor state and I am not aware of any distortion despite my lack of bracing. It's really in open top cars that this becomes a real problem. Still belt and braces makes absolutely sure.

 

[Franko500]

I just cut the lot out and hoped for the best

No seriously I replaced the sills first leaving the floor in place. Rehung the door and checked the gaps were right before tacking the sill in place. It doesn't take much on one of these to move the A post into the correct place.
Once the sill was all welded in and the floor removed the door frame wont move to change the gaps, as Peter said the only thing that moves is the lower A post which again you can pull out or push in by hand until it all lines up.
Oh such happy memories of cutting, banging, grinding & welding

 

[Paolo66]

The mammoth task of removing the underseal continues. Even when you heat it and scrape it you still end up with residue behind that I'm then struggling to get rid of. I completed the engine bay today and put a coat of primer on it to stop oxidation.






I then attacked the bonnet that when I removed the paint discovered a load of filler. This then exposed a dodgy looking repair which was nowhere near flush with the original metal. I took a grinder to it to try and neaten it up but it just started to break up. I removed it to expose a hole in the bonnet and some rust on the bracing. They had basically just covered the hole with a piece of metal, tacked it in place and covered it all with filler. I have cut out around the hole and treated the rust. I will then put in a repair piece, weld it up and smooth it all up.

 

[Vitesse]

Damian is that the side of the bonnet?

Tony

 

[Franko500]

Engine bay looks good. That cant be a nice job, that's one of the reasons I went for blasting.

Ooh I could see a new bonnet being ordered soon!

 

[Vitesse]

Engine bay looks good. That cant be a nice job, that's one of the reasons I went for blasting.

Ooh I could see a new bonnet being ordered soon!

Oh I should have read the post properly It is clearly the bonnet, as Sean said I would bin it and save yourself a lot of work. On my 500 over the years people had twisted the bonnet from side to side to try and get an equal bonnet shut gap on both sides. I tried for ages trying to get it to sit right but it had been badly deformed and was beyond help.

I went and got a new bonnet in the end, the only thing I had to do was grind the inner lip down as it was too wide and was catching on the on the front wings, otherwise it would rubbed all the paint off. I should add I started using a grinder but nearly went through the bonnet, so resorted to a little cutting disk on a Dremmel.

 

[Paolo66]

Sean, Tony
I will bow to your better knowledge but I can't see how I will need a new bonnet for such a small repair. The previous repair was bodged and that was okay so surely if I do it properly then it will be okay? Van der Laan has one at the moment for 50 euro which would also prevent the need to repair it and to try and get it down to bare metal. The outside is easy but the inside is a bugger! Have I just talked myself into a new bonnet?
Damian

 

[Franko500]

The choice is yours! new bonnet, nice and straight, no dents. Or repair the old one, and then always wonder if that rust is going to appear again from the area you cant get to.
Seriously not much in it, all depends on your budget. Believe me, if you buy a new everything it starts to get very expensive

 

[Paolo66]

Been out ranked by the boss! "Sod the expense just get my car back together" I have been instructed. New bonnet ordered. Sand blasting to come to get it down to clean bare shell

 

[stevehg]

Good job on the engine bay

 

[Vitesse]

Been out ranked by the boss! "Sod the expense just get my car back together" I have been instructed. New bonnet ordered. Sand blasting to come to get it down to clean bare shell

I think it is a wise move fiddly little welded repairs are usually more difficult than big panels. Especially when you look at how little metal you have on that bottom lip.

 

[timgarman]

Hi Damian
What did you use to clean the engine bay of sound deadener / underseal?

That's my next job. I've been trying petrol and scraping plus a bit of hairdryer heat. I think white spirit might work better. Don't have a heat gun but maybe that would work better. Nothing seems to make it an easier job.

I've also read of dry ice and freezing it off.

Tim

 

[Paolo66]

Hi Tim
It's a bugger of a job. You definately need a heat gun. You've got to get it really hot and then it will melt off. The problem then is it still leaves a thin coating and chunks you can't get to. I've had the grinder on it, various paint strippers, thinners and petrol. You will find what works best. I feel your pain!
Damian