Project Cinq!
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Project Cinq!
imported_abyss113
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yup lol
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Haha see you Friday 
There has been a small change of plan with the cinq, because they delivered me a 1.2 rather than a 1.4, i've sourced myself a mk1 punto sporting cylinder head and cams. Not only will this give me more bhp (the 1.2 stilos were detuned for tax emissions regs and economy), bit it means i will be able to use the standard 1.2 16v mk1 manifold bolt for bolt, standard punto downpipe, all i need to do is chop the 8v downpipe off the cat and mate it up to the punto one can either get it welded up or try and make a bridge, either way it's massively simplified
There has been a small change of plan with the cinq, because they delivered me a 1.2 rather than a 1.4, i've sourced myself a mk1 punto sporting cylinder head and cams. Not only will this give me more bhp (the 1.2 stilos were detuned for tax emissions regs and economy), bit it means i will be able to use the standard 1.2 16v mk1 manifold bolt for bolt, standard punto downpipe, all i need to do is chop the 8v downpipe off the cat and mate it up to the punto one
can either get it welded up or try and make a bridge, either way it's massively simplified
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My house is seemingly turning into a fiat dealership....
In fact, given that the few times i've tried to get a part from them, it always without fail, no matter how simple a part it is "needs to be shipped in from Italy", i can confidently say my house has more Fiat stock in it than the dealership
So i've ordered more goodies, not that far off being able to start fitting stuff though, hopefully muddle of next week i'll have the vast majority of engine bits to start stripping and rebuilding that before slapping it in the car
In fact, given that the few times i've tried to get a part from them, it always without fail, no matter how simple a part it is "needs to be shipped in from Italy", i can confidently say my house has more Fiat stock in it than the dealership
So i've ordered more goodies, not that far off being able to start fitting stuff though, hopefully muddle of next week i'll have the vast majority of engine bits to start stripping and rebuilding that before slapping it in the car
imported_abyss113
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haha good stuff plans changed ill be up saturday instead to tired after work to drive the touareg from fraserburgh tonight lol
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Quick update, parts stockpiling going well, started work on the engine today. Not entirely sure what it is... 1.2 or 1.4. There's just no identifying marks on it anywhere!, nothing on the block bar 16v, nothing above the water pump as there should be, no sticker above the flywheel as there should be. All i know is it came out of a car that is allegedly certain to have meant to be a 1.4 stilo, but it has 1.2 sump and 1.2 cap, but these could easily have been fitted as replacements at some stage though so by no means a certainty.
Really alien engine to work on for me, but learning as i go! Found the setup for removing the rocker cover bonkers, because it's not really a rocker cover, it's a cambox. So you undo 10 plugs with allen keys, then have another 10 screws deep down those holes to undo with allen keys, they are so tight too, felt the allen key was very, very close to snapping more that once but thankfully never.
Another weird thing i found was my engine didn't have the correct head bolts, the standard fiat ribe is way too big for them so progress got stuck here
also ground the engine mount down to clear the alternator belt.
More stuff on the way so more progress soon
Really alien engine to work on for me, but learning as i go! Found the setup for removing the rocker cover bonkers, because it's not really a rocker cover, it's a cambox. So you undo 10 plugs with allen keys, then have another 10 screws deep down those holes to undo with allen keys, they are so tight too, felt the allen key was very, very close to snapping more that once but thankfully never.
Another weird thing i found was my engine didn't have the correct head bolts, the standard fiat ribe is way too big for them
so progress got stuck here
also ground the engine mount down to clear the alternator belt.
More stuff on the way so more progress soon
imported_abyss113
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niec stuff and see the fiat coupe bargain bucket wheels still kicking around
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the bald tyre makes an excellent engine stand :laugh:
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Another few things i noticed today and i'm confused about reading conversion guides....
folk use the 16v alternator.... why? the 8v is a perfect fit too and you're using more or less the same electric as before, so it's not a load issue.
Spacing the alternator.... why? it all lines up perfectly on the 8v one too.
Spacing the engine month to avoid the need to grind off more of the engine mount...again....why? I've spent 10 minutes on mine with a dremel and it already more or less clears the alternator belt bar one tiny, tiny edge just grazing it, so 5 more minutes on it and i'll have tons of room to spare without weakening it, why go to the bother of moving the whole engine and gearbox over a bit (and putting a little more stress on the other 2 mounts) just to avoid shaving an edge off a mount?
Anyway, also forgot to add i had a small mishap yesterday with it, sheared off one of the bolts holding the front gearbox mount together so had to take the bracket out and grind the captive nut off and replace it with a nut, bolt and washer combo!
Dawned on me today that bar cosmetics, there is actually only one bolt (or technically 2) left to undo on the car in this whole conversion... and that's for the handbrake cable from then on in, (outside of removing head bolts on engine) it's all fitting and re-fitting stuff
folk use the 16v alternator.... why? the 8v is a perfect fit too and you're using more or less the same electric as before, so it's not a load issue.
Spacing the alternator.... why? it all lines up perfectly on the 8v one too.
Spacing the engine month to avoid the need to grind off more of the engine mount...again....why? I've spent 10 minutes on mine with a dremel and it already more or less clears the alternator belt bar one tiny, tiny edge just grazing it, so 5 more minutes on it and i'll have tons of room to spare without weakening it, why go to the bother of moving the whole engine and gearbox over a bit (and putting a little more stress on the other 2 mounts) just to avoid shaving an edge off a mount?
Anyway, also forgot to add i had a small mishap yesterday with it, sheared off one of the bolts holding the front gearbox mount together so had to take the bracket out and grind the captive nut off and replace it with a nut, bolt and washer combo!
Dawned on me today that bar cosmetics, there is actually only one bolt (or technically 2) left to undo on the car in this whole conversion... and that's for the handbrake cable
from then on in, (outside of removing head bolts on engine) it's all fitting and re-fitting stuff - Joined
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as far as ive always seen on the back just above the sump line it will be stamped 1.2 or 1.4 mate. (EDIT i think it either says 16v or 1.2)
alternator wise.
EDIT AGAIN i used the 8v alternator. but DEFINATLY had to space it, was too far out from the engine to line up due to the tdc sensor teeth being on the outside not the inside as on a 8v. it needed moving inwards IIRC. once in the engine bay it also fouled on my chassais and needed moving in (thats when i realised)
there are many different pulley combos. alot of alts dont fit due to the pulley so just go with whatever fits and has the right grooves.
mount wise, i never spaced mine. just ground it down. its worth a note, that although it can clear the pulley, allow a tad extra for slack as the belt ages. mine ran for 3-4 months fine, then one day chewed it up on the mount. i can only think it stretched a tad and was enough to wobble against it as it rotated. mine ended up having to be ground quite alot!. just to clear it it ended up looking certainly less structurally sound. i bleive again, a new belt sits close to it as the alt sits higher when not pulled out to tighten. so as the belt gets older or a old belt is used less needs to be ground.
alternator wise.
EDIT AGAIN i used the 8v alternator. but DEFINATLY had to space it, was too far out from the engine to line up due to the tdc sensor teeth being on the outside not the inside as on a 8v. it needed moving inwards IIRC. once in the engine bay it also fouled on my chassais and needed moving in (thats when i realised)
there are many different pulley combos. alot of alts dont fit due to the pulley so just go with whatever fits and has the right grooves.
mount wise, i never spaced mine. just ground it down. its worth a note, that although it can clear the pulley, allow a tad extra for slack as the belt ages. mine ran for 3-4 months fine, then one day chewed it up on the mount. i can only think it stretched a tad and was enough to wobble against it as it rotated. mine ended up having to be ground quite alot!. just to clear it it ended up looking certainly less structurally sound. i bleive again, a new belt sits close to it as the alt sits higher when not pulled out to tighten. so as the belt gets older or a old belt is used less needs to be ground.
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Mine only has 16v stamped above the sump on the block (inlet side). Had a look on ebay, there's some 1.4's like that (maybe very early ones?), so perhaps that's promising, but i suspect there's a few 1.2's out there with them too like that... probably Fiat were just skimping on tooling and using identical for both engines when they were just introducing the 1.4 16v, so both at that time were probably stamped 16v only.
I'm sorted for pulleys i think, have a 16v one and 8v one but weirdly, my 8v alternator lines up on both 16v pulley and belt groves (engine came with an new looking alt belt) as well as the cinq belt, so just going to use the 8v one, was apparently fairly new and bearings are quiet, so.... rude not to
Yeah, planned to do that with the belt tbh, planning on giving it plenty room, the part it just touches in no more aside, it has 5 or 6mm clearance all over, so if i trim that bit down to that and smooth it all off all over to be extra safe, it should be fine
you know if 1.2 16v t/belts and hg's are interchangeable with 1.4's? one bad thing about not knowing for certain what engine it is yet is not being 100% on what parts are different :laugh:
I'm sorted for pulleys i think, have a 16v one and 8v one but weirdly, my 8v alternator lines up on both 16v pulley and belt groves (engine came with an new looking alt belt) as well as the cinq belt, so just going to use the 8v one, was apparently fairly new and bearings are quiet, so.... rude not to
Yeah, planned to do that with the belt tbh, planning on giving it plenty room, the part it just touches in no more aside, it has 5 or 6mm clearance all over, so if i trim that bit down to that and smooth it all off all over to be extra safe, it should be fine
you know if 1.2 16v t/belts and hg's are interchangeable with 1.4's? one bad thing about not knowing for certain what engine it is yet is not being 100% on what parts are different :laugh:
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cheers for the info on the alt, i'll have a look into it when i'm lining it up in the car, sure i'll figure it out from there better than i can now anyway!
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actually, discovered something else strange.... Just twigged with you mentioning the TDC being where it is, mine is back to front on this engine as to what it should be for a 16v....
on a 16v it should be From left to right towards the crank... Alt belt-trigger ring-Cambelt
like (arc on FF's 1.4 thread, as you can see, using standard pulley, alt belt is on outside pushing belt into mount)
On my 16v, it sits like an 8v, trigger ring-alt belt-cambelt
Think that's why mine randomly seems to line up so well with my 8v alt, both in terms of the belt groves and pulley, somebody has already replaced it with an 8v pulley.... probably to use a cheaper alt! that belt is probably a cento belt too. also explains why mine clears the mount a bit better, the belt is sitting inwards more than it would on a stilo pulley so away from the mount more... hmmm, weird, very weird. wonder if it's a grande pulley or similar.
can see ut on this pic when engine was delivered
on a 16v it should be From left to right towards the crank... Alt belt-trigger ring-Cambelt
like (arc on FF's 1.4 thread, as you can see, using standard pulley, alt belt is on outside pushing belt into mount)
On my 16v, it sits like an 8v, trigger ring-alt belt-cambelt
Think that's why mine randomly seems to line up so well with my 8v alt, both in terms of the belt groves and pulley, somebody has already replaced it with an 8v pulley.... probably to use a cheaper alt! that belt is probably a cento belt too. also explains why mine clears the mount a bit better, the belt is sitting inwards more than it would on a stilo pulley so away from the mount more... hmmm, weird, very weird. wonder if it's a grande pulley or similar.
can see ut on this pic when engine was delivered
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yeh, you ened to use the 16v engine pulley as its sits the belt further in.
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Been reading up on that...
If you use the cento pulley, the tdc sensor looks at the alt belt instead of the trigger ring, cento pullies have the alt belt nearer the engine to take it away from the mount. (the only problem using that is the tdc sensor not seeing the trigger ring) 16v pullies are further out, the alt belt is further out so fouls the cento mount.
I have neither of those on my 16v pulley.... i have a strange pulley that is set up just like an 8v (same grooves), has the alt belt inside it like an 8v's, (even futher in than an 8v's if anything!) but for some reason has a fat trigger ring that the tdc sensor is directly over the 16v's sensor port.
I think it's possibly a 1.4 8v grande pulley tbh.... might be a first on these conversions, might have accidentally stumbled across something to make these conversions more plug and play!. we'll see if it works.
Finished (i think) grinding my mount today, taken about 3-4 mm off it and 5 or 6mm off the underside of the inner edge to round it off , so i'll offer it up to the engine and alt/belt setup again and check it's got plenty clearance.
Also ground off the ends of my handbrake cable for fitting to the pgt rear calipers
If you use the cento pulley, the tdc sensor looks at the alt belt instead of the trigger ring, cento pullies have the alt belt nearer the engine to take it away from the mount. (the only problem using that is the tdc sensor not seeing the trigger ring) 16v pullies are further out, the alt belt is further out so fouls the cento mount.
I have neither of those on my 16v pulley.... i have a strange pulley that is set up just like an 8v (same grooves), has the alt belt inside it like an 8v's, (even futher in than an 8v's if anything!) but for some reason has a fat trigger ring that the tdc sensor is directly over the 16v's sensor port.
I think it's possibly a 1.4 8v grande pulley tbh.... might be a first on these conversions, might have accidentally stumbled across something to make these conversions more plug and play!. we'll see if it works.
Finished (i think) grinding my mount today, taken about 3-4 mm off it and 5 or 6mm off the underside of the inner edge to round it off , so i'll offer it up to the engine and alt/belt setup again and check it's got plenty clearance.
Also ground off the ends of my handbrake cable for fitting to the pgt rear calipers
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nah mate, thats a 16v pulley. but from a non aircon car mate.
as far as im aware, this was only ever found in 1.2 form in the stilo actives as all other models with 16v engiens came with aircon as standard.... so seems its either a 1.2 ooooorr had a pulley swap for a stilo one.
as far as im aware, this was only ever found in 1.2 form in the stilo actives as all other models with 16v engiens came with aircon as standard.... so seems its either a 1.2 ooooorr had a pulley swap for a stilo one.
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Interesting. Thanks. It's another thing that points to it being a 1.2 then... although all of them can be swaps for cheaper parts. The block too seems to suggest it's a 1.4 and it came out of a car registered as a 1.4 (stilo)... so perhaps it's just that the aircon was binned..
Certainly, that pulley seems to line up really well with the 8v alternator anyway, so we'll see how the alternator sits in the car.
Not sure if it's just that pic, but my alt also sits differently, it sits on the block exactly as the 8v does, nice and tight in.
Thinking this engine has an "interesting" history regardless :laugh:
Certainly, that pulley seems to line up really well with the 8v alternator anyway, so we'll see how the alternator sits in the car.
Not sure if it's just that pic, but my alt also sits differently, it sits on the block exactly as the 8v does, nice and tight in.
Thinking this engine has an "interesting" history regardless :laugh:
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