Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

Currently reading:
Panda Zero Score Euro N Cap

What baffles me is how it scored very well in the offset test when it was first tested, yet neither the car nor the test have changed, yet all of a sudden, there's now an injury risk.
 
What baffles me is how it scored very well in the offset test when it was first tested, yet neither the car nor the test have changed, yet all of a sudden, there's now an injury risk.

It appears going back through the videos, combination of seat and pretensioner seems quite ineffective. The 2012 test clearly shows the driver dummy whacking his head off the door frame. The Panda cross test the dummys head snaps back and gets stuck under the head rest which then moves up into the ceiling as the head goes forward again. This theme continued in the latest test..so perhaps their judging criteria have changed.

If you look at the higher scoring cars the dummy tends to follow a single smooth moment forwards into the airbag then back into the seat.
 
It would..the pretensioner is what is applying the load to the drivers chest.

They tend to fire when an impact is detected to both tighten and lock the seat belt during the initial deceleration. Then as the G builds there's usually a degree of controlled failure built into the mount to allow a small amount of forward movement as the belt takes the load to reduce how much of the G force is transmitted directly to the driver and their chest.

Given that in all 3 panda ncap tests the dummy takes a different trajectory we can only assume that the load varies depending on fairly random factors. Given the dummies are built to a given standard and the tests are the same, the seat and belt perform inconsistently.
 
Last edited:
I'd love to keep my car until it's 25..

It'd have no floor by then or be a patchwork quilt of welding and be absolutely un-motable but to keep it for less time is materialistic..

I find it slightly strange that this discussion needs to be had on a forum where it's pretty common knowledge the rear beam on panda/500 is good for 8/12 years before rotting away. At which point it's pretty close to being an uneconomic repair.

Our panda just passed its 11th MOT WITH US.

REAR suspension still fine. :)

But the factory fitted bulbs..2003 spec
.

The white ones are now yellow... and the yellow ones are now white :(


I suspect the Italians dont have vast fleet sales like the Brits do.

Thats why their cheaper to buy new cars..hold their value far better than in the Uk.
 
So... what has happened here?

The seat belts are failing to work as they should?

Must admit the Panda, from my perspective, handles the test better than the Up! Does - except for the movement of the dummies.

One dummy looks like it’d have severely broken it’s neck due to the horrific motion of it moving back after the initial crash ... am I right to suspect so?

That’s the only part putting me off it really.


~

For NCAP to completely ignore it’s airbags, brakes, city brake option, ABS etc and give it less than ‘1’ is wrong. Surely ZERO should belong to a vehicle with ZERO efforts for safety ... e.g. a shopping trolley boarded mid-descent down a hill headed for a concrete wall. That’s zero. The Panda is still relatively ‘safe’ surely. Even if it’s supposedly the least safe in class?
 
So... what has happened here?

The seat belts are failing to work as they should?

Must admit the Panda, from my perspective, handles the test better than the Up! Does - except for the movement of the dummies.

One dummy looks like it’d have severely broken it’s neck due to the horrific motion of it moving back after the initial crash ... am I right to suspect so?

That’s the only part putting me off it really.


~

For NCAP to completely ignore it’s airbags, brakes, city brake option, ABS etc and give it less than ‘1’ is wrong. Surely ZERO should belong to a vehicle with ZERO efforts for safety ... e.g. a shopping trolley boarded mid-descent down a hill headed for a concrete wall. That’s zero. The Panda is still relatively ‘safe’ surely. Even if it’s supposedly the least safe in class?

There is a lot goes on in a modern car to keep occupants safe in the event of an accident, but the gist here is, the more you get thrown around inside the car, the less safe it is.

It’s actually very fair to compare the up to the panda as they launched at the same time in 2011 in the same sector, but from day one the up! Did perform better and got 5 starts and the panda 4, this was before the introduction of the stringent tests we have now and the over reliance on the gadget side of things as very few cars had the gadgets back then.

So the basic answer to your question “the seatbelts failing to work as they should?” Well kinda, the dummy gets thrown about then the seat belt isn’t holding them properly.

I don’t think that zero stars is fair for the panda it actually performs pretty well compared to other cars. I just watched comparison of the 1997 metro with a 2017 Jazz done by NCAP to celebrate 20 years of safety improvement, and it’s clear what a true zero car rating should look like as the metro turns into a ball of tinfoil.

I do believe that NCAP like to make a song and dance, so one or two stars doesn’t grab headlines like zero stars, also I believe they are making a point about fiat’s very long model runs.

They have recently tested the current 500 which is the same essential car to the panda and they didn’t fair anywhere near as badly, so what’s NCAPs deal with the current panda tests ?
 
As tested the Panda lacked knee airbags and Pelvis airbag which the ncap 500 score lists as including. Also the 500 got some assist points for including a speed limiter, not sure how the 500 got a decentish child score and the Panda scored 16% though.

I agree that it doesn't look like a real 0 star job it should be reserved for true horrors. This while not brilliant stands up much better than the score suggests.

Weird how the new Polo/Ibiza/Fabia hasn't been docked it's safety rating for having rear seatbelts that can come undone if 3 people sit in the back. The fix so far..a sticker saying don't put 3 people in the back..quality.
 
And anyway, why can’t NCAP get more detailed? Why can’t it show me a chart with performance numbers on each car’s body frame. Why can’t it get into the performance metrics of the brakes? Wet and dry stopping distances. The car tested at its maximum payload and single driver - not crashing it against a wall for each, but genuinely testing it at its limits with, e.g. “this city car has the best brakes in the class” etc.
 
As tested the Panda lacked knee airbags and Pelvis airbag which the ncap 500 score lists as including. Also the 500 got some assist points for including a speed limiter, not sure how the 500 got a decentish child score and the Panda scored 16% though.

I agree that it doesn't look like a real 0 star job it should be reserved for true horrors. This while not brilliant stands up much better than the score suggests.

Weird how the new Polo/Ibiza/Fabia hasn't been docked it's safety rating for having rear seatbelts that can come undone if 3 people sit in the back. The fix so far..a sticker saying don't put 3 people in the back..quality.

I started this thread.. and was about to ask for it to be locket.. but the PANDA section thread isnt half as informative..!!

I suspect a child in a 500 is hemmed in by the more restrictive cabin space.. and presumably less sticky.out window winder handles etc than the rear door equipped panda.

Scary prospect with the german badged car!!
 
Last edited:
NCAP replied to me, and this is what they said... (I can't remember if it was this the thread where I'd said about my initial email)...
 

Attachments

  • Screenshot 2018-12-11 at 09.08.49.png
    Screenshot 2018-12-11 at 09.08.49.png
    218.7 KB · Views: 40
And anyway, why can’t NCAP get more detailed? Why can’t it show me a chart with performance numbers on each car’s body frame. Why can’t it get into the performance metrics of the brakes? Wet and dry stopping distances. The car tested at its maximum payload and single driver - not crashing it against a wall for each, but genuinely testing it at its limits with, e.g. “this city car has the best brakes in the class” etc.

It could be interesting, tbf the test as it stands represents two identical cars crashing into each other at an identical speed. Not the most likely of scenarios but the most repeatable.

The crash structures of cars are designed to stop their own weight..so 1000kg car crash structure will be obliterated by a 2000kg cars crash structure simply because one has to be stronger than the other to stop the weight of the vehicle in it's own length in the existing test. If you swapped the structure around the 1000kg structure on a 2000kg car would just disappear in a wall test and the other way would be far too stiff and lead to internal injuries.

In a real world scenario, most things that would hit a panda or for that matter our C3 with it's current 4 star rating will weigh more than it. Even something relatively mundane like an Astra will weigh half as much again. So unless you only plan to crash into walls the test is of limited value..

But you then get to part B of safety, can you avoid an accident? This is not currently tested other than do the gadgets work? I think this could be interesting I wouldn't necessarily expect a Panda on eco tyres with a disc and drum set up to stop on a 6 pence compared to a 2 tonne car on sports tyres with 6 piston calipers. Light weight is one thing but it isn't the only thing. However you might get something like the C3 versus the Mazda 3, they are on identical width mid range performance tyres with decently sized discs all round, you'd expect the C3 with it's 200kg weight advantage would stop faster. But if you had to swerve out of your lane at speed and back again I know which one would be less terrifying. But compare that to the same thing in a Range Rover, although the ESP will stop it from flipping there's a decent chance you'd need significantly more space to complete the manoeuvre. That and all terrain rubber isn't known for it's on road prowess and stopping performance.

Definitely be interesting to watch although you'd probably just end up with the performance versions of everything being 5 star cars..
 
Last edited:
Pffffftttttt! Get a proper Panda with no airbags, abs and other safety garbage, then don't crash.

Making things "safer" makes for worse drivers.
 
Back
Top