General Panda 4x4
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General
Panda 4x4
or so they told you :chin:
Could this be why your viscous coupling wasn't working?
Have a read of this
It doesn't explain completely but gives a description of the 4x4 system.
I have seen an animation of the 4x4 system, but can't find it now.
Hi all
It would be great to see some cutaway drawings and graphics of the Pandas system, however I've not had any luck finding such a thing.
As to whether it works well enough: In my research into 4wd cars before landing on a Mk3 Panda, I did not find one single bad word about the Pandas system, so I doubt very much if it should be cause for concern in any buying decision. However if anyone does have an element of doubt, then don't buy one! Simple and easy
We don't all have to want a 4x4 Panda - Landrover makes some excellent and very rugged 4x4s which would also make excellent buys. Okay, they cost a little more new, but hey this is not about cost, right?
BTW - Porsche fitted a centre viscous (no e PLEASE!!!) coupling on their 993 turbo (until 1998). However, that's a sports car not an off-roader..
Happy April 1st to all
It would be great to see some cutaway drawings and graphics of the Pandas system, however I've not had any luck finding such a thing.
As to whether it works well enough: In my research into 4wd cars before landing on a Mk3 Panda, I did not find one single bad word about the Pandas system, so I doubt very much if it should be cause for concern in any buying decision. However if anyone does have an element of doubt, then don't buy one! Simple and easy
We don't all have to want a 4x4 Panda - Landrover makes some excellent and very rugged 4x4s which would also make excellent buys. Okay, they cost a little more new, but hey this is not about cost, right?BTW - Porsche fitted a centre viscous (no e PLEASE!!!) coupling on their 993 turbo (until 1998). However, that's a sports car not an off-roader..
Happy April 1st to all
babbo_umbro
Established member
It seems to be difficult to find an actual cutaway of the latest Panda 4x4 system. However, it is described in some detail in numerous places.
This thread seems to have gone completely mad - there's ample proof that viscous couplings are effective and reliable. Though I don't believe the current Panda 4x4 uses one, like everything else they have been subject to development over the years and historical information is only of limited use. Scaniaman obviously has a bee in his bonnet that nothing will remove - but I do sympathise as I had a gearbox problem once about twenty years ago and I'm now determined to describe all gears as crap and I need to be sure that no car I buy has any gears in it - though I'd have thought some googling for technical descriptions, followed by a visit to a Fiat dealer and a test drive would at least reduce the level of buzzing somewhat.
Unless the only criterion for choice is the presence of 4wd, I can't see how the Panda and any Land Rover products can be compared - former is small, nimble, capable, comparatively economical; latter are big, cumbersome, capable, fearsomely thirsty.
This thread seems to have gone completely mad - there's ample proof that viscous couplings are effective and reliable. Though I don't believe the current Panda 4x4 uses one, like everything else they have been subject to development over the years and historical information is only of limited use. Scaniaman obviously has a bee in his bonnet that nothing will remove - but I do sympathise as I had a gearbox problem once about twenty years ago and I'm now determined to describe all gears as crap and I need to be sure that no car I buy has any gears in it - though I'd have thought some googling for technical descriptions, followed by a visit to a Fiat dealer and a test drive would at least reduce the level of buzzing somewhat.
Unless the only criterion for choice is the presence of 4wd, I can't see how the Panda and any Land Rover products can be compared - former is small, nimble, capable, comparatively economical; latter are big, cumbersome, capable, fearsomely thirsty.
There are quite a few such comparison videos around (for previous versions of the Panda) including this one...
...and, to be honest, although I agree with you, it is nice to see the Panda always coming out of such things with flying colours...!
Interestingly in that video at 4:00 the panda gets cross axled and cannot continue forward. Why is the eld not braking the spinning wheel to transfer power to the wheel on the ground?
I guess my point was just that - if you really are worried about viscous couplings then the simplest thing is not to bother with a Panda!
(Potential) problem solved!
However, if you simply must have a 4x4 (that is not a Panda) then Landrover make some of the best so it would be kind of daft not to even consider say a used one; for some i guess the economy or size may put them off a bit!!
Not wishing to scrap or carp, but I have had four or five Discovery models over the years and the post 2004 'modern' ones (including the Range Rover sport) are actually surprisingly nimble! A bit big for some though, but hugely capable off-road and they do make very practical family cars
From an engineering point of view (i'm not one btw, but I think I have a reasonable appreciation of mechanics), I'd be interested to know what be a cost effective alternative to the viscous coupling: If one used a (cheap) 'open' diff to split the drive front/rear then the moment one axle (let alone a single wheel) met less grip, the drive would be spun away. A viscous coupling will not allow this. There are alternatives of course using mechanical locks, clutches or say the rather clever Torsen diffs - but i think in all cases you are looking at much more expense and bulk. Using the brakes to prevent wheel spin is rather crafty, but I don't know how well that would work across both axles...
(Potential) problem solved!
However, if you simply must have a 4x4 (that is not a Panda) then Landrover make some of the best so it would be kind of daft not to even consider say a used one; for some i guess the economy or size may put them off a bit!!
Not wishing to scrap or carp, but I have had four or five Discovery models over the years and the post 2004 'modern' ones (including the Range Rover sport) are actually surprisingly nimble! A bit big for some though, but hugely capable off-road and they do make very practical family cars
From an engineering point of view (i'm not one btw, but I think I have a reasonable appreciation of mechanics), I'd be interested to know what be a cost effective alternative to the viscous coupling: If one used a (cheap) 'open' diff to split the drive front/rear then the moment one axle (let alone a single wheel) met less grip, the drive would be spun away. A viscous coupling will not allow this. There are alternatives of course using mechanical locks, clutches or say the rather clever Torsen diffs - but i think in all cases you are looking at much more expense and bulk. Using the brakes to prevent wheel spin is rather crafty, but I don't know how well that would work across both axles...
hello everyone I have managed to connect a camra under my panda and record the front wheels turning and the propshaft moving its the first part
its my first upload on youtube titled gopro0001 panda 4x4 I hope some will whatch it and see what happens underneath your car when driving along
its my first upload on youtube titled gopro0001 panda 4x4 I hope some will whatch it and see what happens underneath your car when driving along
Many fine posts here guys. And I apologize for saying that "viscouse coupling is crap". I obviously stepped on some toes on here as many of you have the previous generation of Panda with this system. And I am really sure that the vc in the Panda is working great. And I am sure that it works great in some Subarus.
I was really burned by the Suzuki I had, and my friend who had a Baleno had to have the coupling replaced many times as it didn't work. And another acquaintance drove Impreza...bought a Suzuki SX4; but was unhappy with the way the SX4 performed in winter, and she went back to Impreza. (keep in mind we have pretty nasty winters up here in Norway, and we have 6 months with snow and a good 4wd system is something we need just to get home up steep hills with a few inches of fresh wet heavy snow after a snowfall)
I have a Golf R32 with the haldex system now, and are really pleased with that. Stock controller diverts power to the rear after ecu detects 15 degrees of spin at the front wheels, that's about 4/100ths of a revolution; so it reacts very quickly, ramping full possible torque split with haldex coupling locked 50/50 to the rear in about 1/4 of a second. But I resently upgraded the haldex controller to a blue one that ramps power to the rear quicker, and ramps it down slower. It takes into account the rate of the throttle position, to "anticipate" the need for torque at the rear before you actually have wheel spin. And it all work together with the abs/esp system of course.
The new Fiat Panda is a possible car for my parents. And sure you can test drive it. But I just asked on here if anyone could give some detailed info on the system, because I have tried to find with no luck. I feel we as customers demands to be able to know how things work. To many people (over here at least) go off and buy a Suzuki Swift because it say 4x4 on the back and trust and believe 4x4 is 4x4 and think it is going to perform just as good as an Impreza or a new Golf 4motion...or a Panda for that matter.
I believe the previous Panda is great, and if anyone can explain more about the new Panda's awd system in detail, feel free on here - for everyones benefit.
I was really burned by the Suzuki I had, and my friend who had a Baleno had to have the coupling replaced many times as it didn't work. And another acquaintance drove Impreza...bought a Suzuki SX4; but was unhappy with the way the SX4 performed in winter, and she went back to Impreza.
(keep in mind we have pretty nasty winters up here in Norway, and we have 6 months with snow and a good 4wd system is something we need just to get home up steep hills with a few inches of fresh wet heavy snow after a snowfall)I have a Golf R32 with the haldex system now, and are really pleased with that. Stock controller diverts power to the rear after ecu detects 15 degrees of spin at the front wheels, that's about 4/100ths of a revolution; so it reacts very quickly, ramping full possible torque split with haldex coupling locked 50/50 to the rear in about 1/4 of a second. But I resently upgraded the haldex controller to a blue one that ramps power to the rear quicker, and ramps it down slower. It takes into account the rate of the throttle position, to "anticipate" the need for torque at the rear before you actually have wheel spin. And it all work together with the abs/esp system of course.
The new Fiat Panda is a possible car for my parents. And sure you can test drive it. But I just asked on here if anyone could give some detailed info on the system, because I have tried to find with no luck. I feel we as customers demands to be able to know how things work. To many people (over here at least) go off and buy a Suzuki Swift because it say 4x4 on the back and trust and believe 4x4 is 4x4 and think it is going to perform just as good as an Impreza or a new Golf 4motion...or a Panda for that matter.
I believe the previous Panda is great, and if anyone can explain more about the new Panda's awd system in detail, feel free on here - for everyones benefit.
Had my car in for warranty work today.
Rattle from dash, stop/start problems.
They removed the glovebox, rattle still apparent,
Removed centre console, rattle still apparent,
Removed dash, rattle still apparent,
Eventually traced to a bolt not done up fully tight on the heater matrix.
Incidentally, I found a loose screw by about 2 turns at the bottom of the centre console.
Pretty shoddy that workers at the factory are sloppily assembling these cars.
As for the stop start which was not restarting after stopping requiring quick turning off and back on of ignition key, it of course worked perfectly all day for them. :bang:
Ah well, worse things happen at sea
Rattle from dash, stop/start problems.
They removed the glovebox, rattle still apparent,
Removed centre console, rattle still apparent,
Removed dash, rattle still apparent,
Eventually traced to a bolt not done up fully tight on the heater matrix.
Incidentally, I found a loose screw by about 2 turns at the bottom of the centre console.
Pretty shoddy that workers at the factory are sloppily assembling these cars.
As for the stop start which was not restarting after stopping requiring quick turning off and back on of ignition key, it of course worked perfectly all day for them. :bang:
Ah well, worse things happen at sea
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philboo
Member
Sorry to hear you've had problems and also the assembly sounds poor.
Mine still hasn't turned up at the dealers.
Phil
Mine still hasn't turned up at the dealers.
Phil
I have managed to put all 31 mins video from a GoPro camera attached under my car http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FZdxg65HyS4&feature=youtu.be hope this works
The amount of rattles, loose screws, wrongly wired switches & plastic moulding imperfections would suggest someone on the dashboard part of the assembly line needs their P45 printing. Sergio said the Panda being built in Italy was a chance for the Italian workers to prove themselves (or something to that effect) - looks like they need to sharpen up their act if they want any more models to be built there - we didn't have this carry-on with the last Panda
They're not the end of the World faults but they're stupidly easy to avoid if decent quality control checks are made, which makes them unforgiveable.
They're not the end of the World faults but they're stupidly easy to avoid if decent quality control checks are made, which makes them unforgiveable.
Yes, you are right of course.
It'll cost fiat a few hundred in labour too and all because luigi couldn't be bothered to do his job properly.
I should be getting a call from Fiat soon to ask about my buying experience. The dealer will get full marks but I will bring up my thoughts on the quality control issues.
It'll cost fiat a few hundred in labour too and all because luigi couldn't be bothered to do his job properly.
I should be getting a call from Fiat soon to ask about my buying experience. The dealer will get full marks but I will bring up my thoughts on the quality control issues.
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In the long-run it must cost Fiat more in dealership labour than it would if they just employed additional quality control staff/checks at the factory. And that's before you factor in lost sales from on-lookers who don't like what they read on here. Just makes no sence to try & cut these corners. Unless ofcourse there are workers there that should be doing a job, that are not. Hence why the Polish factory doesn't have these problems.
babbo_umbro
Established member
The assembly niggles that are turning up are very irritating, and are damaging for Fiat, especially after the previous Panda had started to establish a good quality/reliability reputation for them. It seems to me that they're in areas that are affected by the RHD of UK cars. Is that so?
We don't really have enough lhd members on here to make an accurate assessment?
I think I've found a way to replicate my stop/start problem.
After collecting the car yesterday and them saying it was operating fine, low and behold get to a stopping situation this morning after about 20 miles of driving and the car will not restart on pressing of clutch. :bang:
Observation is I've had the heater on high directed to feet. Turned it to cold and let it cool and the stop/start works again. I reckon the clutch pedal sensor doesn't like getting warm?
