Technical Panda 4x4 handbrake

[Sicilian]

Hi all, first post although I've browsed the forum for years as we own a Fiat Ducato motorhome.

I've recently become the owner of a bright orange (hence the user name) Panda 4x4 twinair. Really enjoying it and getting used to the quirks of the engine but one thing that is really poor is the handbrake. It barely holds the car on our admittedly steep driveway and if I didn't park it in gear it wouldn't hold at all. This is with the handbrake pulled on as hard as I can manage and it certainly isn't excess travel at the lever end as it only comes up around five or six clicks maximum.

I've searched the forum and elsewhere and the handbrake seems to have automatic adjustment at the calipers as the brake pads wear. I've had a quick look at the rear brakes and the discs have a bit of corrosion on them but no worse than the rear discs on many other light cars due to the lack of use. One thing I have noticed is that the rear pads are aftermarket and only look a few hundred miles old, not sure if this has any bearing? The car is a 2016 with 28000 miles covered, are the caliper pistons known to seize on the Panda at such low mileage? I have had this before on another of my cars but it had covered much higher mileage and was older too. I'm pretty handy with the spanners so if anyone has any inside info on the Panda 4x4 handbrake I'd appreciate it

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

The handbrake (on the cars with rear disc brakes) isn’t great. Although mines never rolled away it does feel like it creeps a bit as I get out on my (gently) sloping drive. This is my third 4x4 and they’ve all been like this. However, no evidence of brakes seizing or not adjusting. Your comment about new pads may explain why it’s less good. If the pads haven’t yet bedded in to match the shape of the discs then they will be less effective. One trick - press the footbrake down while pulling the handbrake up. That way most of the movement needed is provided by the hydraulics.

 

[Sicilian]

Thanks, I had a feeling that the disc handbrake wasn't brilliant and your reply confirms it although I'm sure someone will now post that theirs will hold on a 30% hill

I'll try giving the footbrake a firmer shove when parking and see if that helps.

 

[Panda IIs]

Thanks, I had a feeling that the disc handbrake wasn't brilliant and your reply confirms it although I'm sure someone will now post that theirs will hold on a 30% hill

I'll try giving the footbrake a firmer shove when parking and see if that helps.

Hi there; I've a 63 plate 4x4 and was having the same experience as you, the discs were pitted a little and had some wear but (probably) more significantly the pads didn't seem to be fully contacting at the edges (if you can find a newer car you'll see they contact pretty much out to the edges). The handbrake worked OK but needed a good heft to get the car held.

It was the disc appearance as much as anything that pushed me down the route of replacement. Now there are a few Urban Myths (on here and else where) about rear disc replacement (axle/drive shaft dismantlement, bearings pulled etc) the reality is that you just need to have a decent set of tools and allow some time. Search on here - there's a good thread from "Yellow car" or Yellow taxi" or something like that. Just to be clear the discs can be removed without any of the above, mythical work, you just need to be a little dexterous.

Anyway with the discs replaced and taking the time to screw in the adjusters (tool or G clamp and adjustable required) plus lubricating the cables it now holds like an anchor. Note; of course you would screw in the adjusters with new pads anyway.

In your shoes I would maybe get the calipers off screw the adjusters in and lube the cables then try that, next maybe new pads leaving discs as a final resort. There was a time when skimming the discs was a thing but you need to know and understand what you're doing (minimum thickness etc). Cost wise the new parts were not too bad although more expensive than the fronts (probably due to their being less common). I got mine from the shop on this site; they were OEM and really good quality pads and discs.

Good luck; the handbrake does work properly!

 

[Sicilian]

Thanks for the info. I had read about the huge dismantling required to change the discs and was hoping there'd be a way around it.

 

[Panda IIs]

Myths were busted here! https://www.fiatforum.com/panda-iii/437398-4x4-rear-brake-discs-3.html YellowCar is accurate in his description; there is a cutout/indent which enables removal of one of the (calliper?) bolts.

You just need to allow half a day and if you are half good with the spanners it will be done in two hours

 

[Motorcyclist Colin]

I bought a new 4x4 in 2018, and the handbrake has never been great, right from new. It does hold but I don't particularly like the "pad" type of handbrake lever.
I have a Citroen Relay 2.2 , 3.5 tons Camper van with handbrake that operates on discs at the rear, and that holds in all cicumstances even at 67000 odd miles. It has a standard type handbrake lever, much better

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

...I have a Citroen Relay 2.2 , 3.5 tons Camper van with handbrake that operates on discs at the rear, and that holds in all cicumstances even at 67000 odd miles. It has a standard type handbrake lever, much better

It might be the shape of the lever, but also, I believe the handbrake on the Citroen is operating a separate set of brake shoes that pull up against the inside of the 'top hat' section of the disc, effectively acting as a drum brake. (A fairly common system on larger/heavier vehicles with rear discs)

[added later] You can see that in the diagram here: https://oem.alpics.info/pics/TFiat1...gif?s=7591&k=88af3e78a91eed15bc5d44539c7a5d3a [which comes from here https://varuosad.alvadi.ee/en/vin/VF7YDUMFC12290468/41/manufacturer/331/45395 (This is for a Fiat Ducato - same van as Citroen Relay and Peugeot Boxer) ]

 

[Panda IIs]

It might be the shape of the lever, but also, I believe the handbrake on the Citroen is operating a separate set of brake shoes that pull up against the inside of the 'top hat' section of the disc, effectively acting as a drum brake. (A fairly common system on larger/heavier vehicles with rear discs)/QUOTE]

Yep; Volvo 940 MERC W211 both use this arrangement too; very effective.

 

[chris3234]

The rear discs on my Tipo have a handbrake operated by the piston rather then a separate set of shoes inside the disc
And they work well

Allthrough it's a lot heavier then a panda especially on the rear panda probably has maybe 250kg on the rear with a empty boot
So that probably help it