Styling osram nightbraker h4 led

[kavinsanders87]

Dear All,

I Just want to upgrade lights but Unfortunately the OSRAM nightbraker h4 led are not road legal yet in UK.

Do you know if there is a discussion to make the legal?

there are legal in several countries in Europe.

 

[g8rpi]

Note that it is actually the headlamp, as defined by approval number, which has been approved, not the vehicle. It's not a case of UK law changing but somone paying to put the headlamps through the approval process with the relevant lamps. Due to the fact that the UK is right hand drive and a small market it seems unlikely that anyone would spend the money to do this. It is also possible that due to the design requirements and limitations of LEDs that the lamps are not capable of producing a correct light pattern in a RHD headlamp

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Note that it is actually the headlamp, as defined by approval number, which has been approved, not the vehicle. It's not a case of UK law changing but somone paying to put the headlamps through the approval process with the relevant lamps. Due to the fact that the UK is right hand drive and a small market it seems unlikely that anyone would spend the money to do this. It is also possible that due to the design requirements and limitations of LEDs that the lamps are not capable of producing a correct light pattern in a RHD headlamp

I’m not sure that RHD makes a difference - the bulbs (LED or otherwise) are identical for left it right drive: it’s just the lens or the reflector in the light itself that is different.

The Ostam LED has been approved for use as a replacement for halogen bulbs in the existing headlight unit of any make of car in a growing number of countries - https://www.osram.de/am/night-breaker-led/night-breaker-led-ledcheck.jsp?mkt=/ledcheck/

What almost certainly doesn’t help is Brexit. After we left the EU, all products that are certified (eg ‘e’ marked car parts or CE marked Hoovers) have to go through a separate process of being tested to the new UKCA standards now as well as the EU standards (which included BS EN)— standards we introduced after leaving the EU. All part of that ‘doing away with bureaucracy’ that we were told by some that Brexit was going to simplify. Of course it hasn’t: it just means manufacturers from outside the U.K. have to certify things twice if they want to sell in Europe and here. Some simply won’t bother.

So far as I know, the issue at present in the UK is actually the MoT test, where headlights only pass if presented with the manufacturer’s original light source present. This may well change - I imagine Osram will be pushing for this. There are other right hand drive markets - South Africa, Australia and Japan for starters.

 

[g8rpi]

I’m not sure that RHD makes a difference - the bulbs (LED or otherwise) are identical for left it right drive: it’s just the lens or the reflector in the light itself that is different.

The Ostam LED has been approved for use as a replacement for halogen bulbs in the existing headlight unit of any make of car in a growing number of countries - https://www.osram.de/am/night-breaker-led/night-breaker-led-ledcheck.jsp?mkt=/ledcheck/

So far as I know, the issue at present in the UK is actually the MoT test, where headlights only pass if presented with the manufacturer’s original light source present. This may well change - I imagine Osram will be pushing for this. There are other right hand drive markets - South Africa, Australia and Japan for starters.

While filament lamps are identical for LHD and RHD, a filament emits in a 360 degree cylinder around its axis. A bare LED chip emits a cone. I (we) don't know how they provided the correct coverage using LEDs. All I was suggesting was the possibility that the design may have compromised light output for RHD to acheive correct pattern and output for LHD.
South Africa, Australia and Japan are not that big a market compared to europe and they all have their own legislation. Osram have gone for low hanging fruit.

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

While filament lamps are identical for LHD and RHD, a filament emits in a 360 degree cylinder around its axis. A bare LED chip emits a cone.

true - but, in a halogen headlight bulb there’s a metal shield on the dip beam filament that shades half of it so it only lights the top part of the reflector. The LED mimics that rather well. In the Osram lamp there’s also a finely tuned shade to precisely chop the light to match the H4 bulb. (Unlike several of the non Euro LEDs that just throw light everywhere aand got LED upgrades their poor reputation). For the main beam, the Osram LED bulb has two chips, one lighting the top half and the other the bottom of the reflector. That works really well too

 

[g8rpi]

If you have examined one of the LED lamps you have the advantage over me. The dipped pattern is probably easier to acheive with LEDs but the main beam must comply as well.
I'm sure the Osram lamps are very good, I was just trying to posit some reasons why they have not been approved in the UK. I think the fact we are LHD has a lot to do with it but only the designers and and people deciding what approvals to attempt know the answer.

 

[jrkitching]

I'm sure the Osram lamps are very good

Me too; unlike most cheap far eastern imports, they probably work just fine.

But the sad reality is that you can't legally use them in the UK, and an MOT tester should fail the car if you present it with Osram LED's fitted. Given current government priorities, I don't see this changing anytime soon.

If you were unfortunate enough to be involved in a serious accident at night with these bulbs fitted, you might have a big problem, even if the bulbs actually had nothing to do with it.

 

[kavinsanders87]

true - but, in a halogen headlight bulb there’s a metal shield on the dip beam filament that shades half of it so it only lights the top part of the reflector. The LED mimics that rather well. In the Osram lamp there’s also a finely tuned shade to precisely chop the light to match the H4 bulb. (Unlike several of the non Euro LEDs that just throw light everywhere aand got LED upgrades their poor reputation). For the main beam, the Osram LED bulb has two chips, one lighting the top half and the other the bottom of the reflector. That works really well too

If they have been authorised in all those countries, it means that they work well.

Of course, you can replace them anyway and change them with halogen before rhe mot.


What I am concerned about it is insurance claims , even if you are not at fault in an incident , they could have ground to revert the thing accusing you of illegal fitting....

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

If they have been authorised in all those countries, it means that they work well.

Of course, you can replace them anyway and change them with halogen before rhe mot.


What I am concerned about it is insurance claims , even if you are not at fault in an incident , they could have ground to revert the thing accusing you of illegal fitting....

I'd prefer not to run the risk of getting caught out, and for now have 150% brighter halogens that seem to do the job.

 

[jrkitching]

I'd prefer not to run the risk of getting caught out

Me too.

Worst case scenario? You're driving along a road at night, and someone driving the other way takes a corner too fast and smashes into you head on. The other driver is seriously injured, and their three passengers are killed. The other driver says he was dazzled by your lights, the insurance company inspect the car, find the bulbs and invalidate your insurance. The police then prosecute you on three counts of causing death whilst driving uninsured. You'll be going to prison, and when you're released, you'll spend the rest of your working life reimbursing your insurance company for what they've paid out to the other parties.

Highly unlikely, but it could happen.

It's just not worth the risk.

 

[kavinsanders87]

I'd prefer not to run the risk of getting caught out, and for now have 150% brighter halogens that seem to do the job.

Yes , I did fit a pair of good brand one from halfords . The ring Pro 200% they look cool and bright , the 200% come from the light color , more white it feels brighter.

 

[vexorg]

Worst case scenario? You're driving along a road at night, and someone driving the other way takes a corner too fast and smashes into you head on. The other driver is seriously injured, and their three passengers are killed. The other driver says he was dazzled by your lights, the insurance company inspect the car, find the bulbs and invalidate your insurance.

Whereas, if you are in a bmw/merc/audi/range rover/whatever, and completely blind someone with your headlights that's fine as it's approved

 

[chris3234]

Whereas, if you are in a bmw/merc/audi/range rover/whatever, and completely blind someone with your headlights that's fine as it's approved

Yes you are

Probablem with those lights there is not bright spot near the middle

But everywhere is bright with those new fashioned led matrix lights and other things

 

[Herts Hillhopper]

Dear All,

I Just want to upgrade lights but Unfortunately the OSRAM nightbraker h4 led are not road legal yet in UK.

Do you know if there is a discussion to make the legal?

there are legal in several countries in Europe.

Just to add to this and my earlier comments…
Yes, the Osram LED upgrades are street legal in some other countries…. But, only for specified makes and models of car. There’s a list for each country on the Osram website. The Panda is not listed and so even in countries where the upgrade ‘bulbs’ are approved, they can’t be (legally) used on the Panda. The 500 and Tipo are on the list