Only In Wales - Comming To England

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Only In Wales - Comming To England

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Wrexham, North Wales
Well is this a 20 or a 30? Maybe it is a 25mph limit?

My rage (road?) is they can't get the signs right.

Coming to England soon soon. Tories Anti, Labour & Green For, EU for, .....

Don't get me wrong I think 20mph outside schools etc., narrow streets with cars parked both sides, ..... and similar hazardous areas is perfectly fine and I would support. However a global 30 to 20 is not good for the enviroment. Cars and more importantly trucks will be forced to drop a gear, rev higher, possibly labour thus poluting more, ......


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A bloke called Matt summed it up :)

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Well is this a 20 or a 30? Maybe it is a 25mph limit?

My rage (road?) is they can't get the signs right.

Coming to England soon soon. Tories Anti, Labour & Green For, EU for, .....

Don't get me wrong I think 20mph outside schools etc., narrow streets with cars parked both sides, ..... and similar hazardous areas is perfectly fine and I would support. However a global 30 to 20 is not good for the enviroment. Cars and more importantly trucks will be forced to drop a gear, rev higher, possibly labour thus poluting more, ......


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I think it is a shame we insist on incrementing our speed limits by 10mph. 20 is appropriate in some places, but in many, it is difficult to sustain unless pushing against a speed limiter, if your car has one. A 25 limit, I think, would be more readily accepted, and easier to comply with, bringing wider acceptance.

For the pic above, surely it is obvious, keeping left, it is a 30 limit, butif overtaking, the limit is 20. Makes perfect sense.
There are at last two service areas on the M4 with conflicting signs, various 10 & 20 signs, and 15 painted on the road. But as they are private roads, enforcement is unlikely, especailly with the variances.

The blanket 20 in Wales will likely be a money spinner, as if the police had nothing else to do.
 
I’ve read the Welsh tory complaints and what is being said in our media, there are some ‘glaringly disingenuous’ figures being used deliberately to mislead:
It’s not a blanket 30 to 20mph change
there are ‘exceptions’, many roads are the expected ie. schools, dense residential, care/nursing homes, hospitals, accident black spots etc
all roads are to be monitored for a impacts and assessment over the coming 12mths, so some may revert
The study undertaken before implementation went far beyond that which was undertaken in Sheffield (yes, England did it first and there’s currently 8 others areas under test in England). One important factor, and one that surprised the researchers, was that the average journey time only increased by a minute or less (think how much time we sit on jams). Other factors found that delivery/haulage traffic found other routes, more parents and kids walked to schools and air quality improved
I’ve looked at the interactive maps (Welsh g’ment site) and there does seem to be some nonsensical applications, but some you can’t tell until you go on ‘street view’.
Round here the roads are used like race and rally tracks, the yummy mummys park like they want to create hazards and often block the road. Our access road is a national speed limit lane and there’s always accidents, (I’ve had to rebuild our drystone wall’s multiple times) there’s a concerted effort to get the limit reduced but the council are deaf, dumb or both
 
I’ve read the Welsh tory complaints and what is being said in our media, there are some ‘glaringly disingenuous’ figures being used deliberately to mislead:
It’s not a blanket 30 to 20mph change
there are ‘exceptions’, many roads are the expected ie. schools, dense residential, care/nursing homes, hospitals, accident black spots etc
all roads are to be monitored for a impacts and assessment over the coming 12mths, so some may revert
The study undertaken before implementation went far beyond that which was undertaken in Sheffield (yes, England did it first and there’s currently 8 others areas under test in England). One important factor, and one that surprised the researchers, was that the average journey time only increased by a minute or less (think how much time we sit on jams). Other factors found that delivery/haulage traffic found other routes, more parents and kids walked to schools and air quality improved
I’ve looked at the interactive maps (Welsh g’ment site) and there does seem to be some nonsensical applications, but some you can’t tell until you go on ‘street view’.
Round here the roads are used like race and rally tracks, the yummy mummys park like they want to create hazards and often block the road. Our access road is a national speed limit lane and there’s always accidents, (I’ve had to rebuild our drystone wall’s multiple times) there’s a concerted effort to get the limit reduced but the council are deaf, dumb or both
Both. I have the same issue we are one of the only roads in the village with a national speed limit and boy dont we know it. Its clearly to much trouble for anyone at the council to just start and do the process to recify the situation. its not buget cuts its laziness as this has been raised for a number of years. When they feel like it they chage the limits and when they dont they do nowt! In our case they do nowt. As our road has 3 big water mains under and ours is a 5 cast orn pipe we have top suffer these fracturing as a result of heavy vehicles bouncing at speed. The road has been closed 15 times in the last 34 years and we have been without water on more occasions than I can count. Irksome!
 
I’ve read the Welsh tory complaints and what is being said in our media, there are some ‘glaringly disingenuous’ figures being used deliberately to mislead:
It’s not a blanket 30 to 20mph change
there are ‘exceptions’, many roads are the expected ie. schools, dense residential, care/nursing homes, hospitals, accident black spots etc
all roads are to be monitored for a impacts and assessment over the coming 12mths, so some may revert
The study undertaken before implementation went far beyond that which was undertaken in Sheffield (yes, England did it first and there’s currently 8 others areas under test in England). One important factor, and one that surprised the researchers, was that the average journey time only increased by a minute or less (think how much time we sit on jams). Other factors found that delivery/haulage traffic found other routes, more parents and kids walked to schools and air quality improved
I’ve looked at the interactive maps (Welsh g’ment site) and there does seem to be some nonsensical applications, but some you can’t tell until you go on ‘street view’.
Round here the roads are used like race and rally tracks, the yummy mummys park like they want to create hazards and often block the road. Our access road is a national speed limit lane and there’s always accidents, (I’ve had to rebuild our drystone wall’s multiple times) there’s a concerted effort to get the limit reduced but the council are deaf, dumb or both
Not all that "disingenuous" when 97% of Wales' 30mph restricted roads have dropped to 20mph !
To my understanding, this can reasonably be described as a blanket reduction with limited exceptions.
Many of the roads around schools, hospitals, etc, were already 20mph. These make sense, but speed limits could have been reduced selectively rather than taking a sledgehammer to crack a nut.

"Roads to be monitored ... over ... 12 months" smacks of a political statement which can conveniently have no effect. I'll believe the speed reduction has reduced traffic accidents when my insurance premium drops next year - some chance of this happening either.

I live in one of the trial areas which has had the 20mph limits since about March last year, so I have first-hand experience. Unless the researchers' trips were just a mile to the shops, then travel times will increase by a lot more than 1 minute - you only need the slower, more congested roads to slow you enough to miss one traffic light sequence and that's at least one minute added. I have seen no sign of delivery/haulage traffic finding other routes, and that's when living in a trial area - there's even less chance now that all the surrounding areas have 20mph limits too.

Roads are not emptier - a similar amount of traffic at a slower speed makes them more congested - and there is more pollution when you can't get out of second gear for large parts of the journey. How will increased congestion and pollution encourage people to walk, apart from for short journeys ?

Slowing cars to little more than cycling speed makes it more dangerous to pass cycles whilst keeping to the speed limit. Much better to pass cyclists quickly with a wide berth, rather than having to travel side-by-side for longer whilst concentrating on the cyclist and the road ahead. I have not felt safer to cycle within the 20mph limit areas.

Using roads as "race and rally tracks" will not be changed by reducing limits from 30mph to 20mph. If drivers are ignoring 30mph limits they will also ignore 20mph limits. Similarly poor parking will not be cured by speed limits. Lack of enforcement of existing restrictions seems to be the problem there.
 
I’ve read the Welsh tory complaints and what is being said in our media, there are some ‘glaringly disingenuous’ figures being used deliberately to mislead:
It’s not a blanket 30 to 20mph change
there are ‘exceptions’, many roads are the expected ie. schools, dense residential, care/nursing homes, hospitals, accident black spots etc
I guess the word blanket is interesting. That said in practical terms looking at the Welsh maps the exceptions and exemption are not that many. In the Wrexham area there are only two roads where 30 is allowed instead of 20. To me the 30 to 20 is a blanket change, after all when in bed you don't often pull the blanket over your head, you head being an exception. :)

They say:

5. It is not a blanket speed limit

Currently 30mph is the default speed limit for streets with street lighting, but there are variations to that limit marked by signs on the road. In the same way, under the new 20mph legislation, local councils can use their local knowledge to retain a 30mph limit where there is a case for doing so. These 30mph roads will be marked by signs in the same way that variations from the current default speed limit are used.

In the UK how many what would normally be 30mph roads dictated by street lighting (no more than 200 yards apart) are speeds over 30mph allowed? As a general precentage and in practice very few.

https://mocktheorytest.com/resources/speed-limit-streetlights/

I just love this "but there’s no legal requirement for a restricted road – one where the limit is 30mph – to have a sign, which makes it easy for a driver to get caught out." So when you approach the 1st street light you have to try and visually measure the distance to the next light and hope there is no speed camera/van bewteen the 1st and 2nd lamp post.

Living in Wales (just over the Cheshire border) I will get used to the 20, comply with it, etc. but crossing the boarder is going to be a challenge for many. e.g. driving at 20 in England as a result of regular Welsh habit only to be done by the police for driving too slow or having vehicle "up you chuff". On the other had a driver from England get caught out in Wales.
 
This guy has done quite a few videos of his and other people's analysis of a number of motoring related issues. Generally speaking I like them as they have some interesting facts, research, and links to support the content / topic. I think he also knows that not everybody will neccessarily agree with all he says. If nothing else he rides soem nice roads :)

 
Most of the smaller streets in Edinburgh are now 20MPH and many also have the speed bumps which were installed some years ago. That's ok, I've got used to both the speed bumps and expecting them to be 20MPH. However there are some pretty inexplicable main roads which fluctuate along their length between 30 and 20 mph - a very few are still 40 but are steadily being reduced to 30. For instance the Ferry Road is 30 for much of it's length but changes, for no good reason that I can see, when it passes the intersection with Newhaven road and is a 20 from there on to the traffic lights where you turn right for Leith. I travel this road often and just as often you come across some poor soul creeping along at 20 heading towards Golden Acre because they have obviously missed the sign where it turns into a 30 again. Another 20 I can't understand is the road up through the Royal Park from Holyrood to the commonwealth pool. It's been a 30 all my life and is a nice quite wide road with excellent visibility all round and a cycle path on one side separate from the roadway. I now avoid going this way entirely because almost every time I go on it I end up with some numpty riding my back bumper wanting to go faster. It's on quite a hill and coming back from the commonwealth pool towards Holyrood the cyclists pretty much all overtake you going like bats out of hell down the hill. They could choose to use the cycle path but I guess they don't because there are often uni students walking there and it's too difficult going at these speeds to avoid them so they use the road. It's incredibly dangerous with these bikes weaving in and out of the cars, they must be doing around 30 mph or more.

I think probably just making the whole city a blanket 20 limit would sort a lot of this - I wouldn't like it but it would remove a lot of the uncertainty and everyone would know they should be doing 20 and would have no excuse to "push" others.
 
I think probably just making the whole city a blanket 20 limit would sort a lot of this - I wouldn't like it but it would remove a lot of the uncertainty and everyone would know they should be doing 20 and would have no excuse to "push" others.
Glasgow is getting there too, the centre and many other areas are now 20, well, out of what's left from the bus gates that make it a difficult journey in the centre. I studied and worked in Glasgow for years (25-ish) all roads were 30, not once did i see people getting run down. I do find it all anti-car more than safety.

A lot of the small towns around Edinburgh are also 20, which feels painfully slow to go from 60 to 20, then back to 60.

Bring back the green cross code man and stop dumb people walking in front of cars should be the real aim of things.
 
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Bring back the green cross code man and stop dumb people walking in front of cars should be the real aim of things.
Did you not know it is now your right to walk, talk, text, web browse, listen to high volume music on head cans, step out without looking and generally waft around. Hit any of these numpties and you will be a member of his majesty's pleasure establishments.

As for cyclist exceeding any speed limit then they should be pulled, fined and 3 points on their driver's license. I would think that being hit by a cyclist doing 30 mph (lots of sharp, pointed, angled and ridged metalwork) is going to hurt more than being nudged by a car at 20mph which has been designed to minimise human injuries.
 
I have views on bikes unpopular with cyclist friends. If you want to ride on the road, you should have a test and license, insurance, and number plate of some kind. And follow the same rules of the road other vehicles do.

Shockingly there is no speed limit for bikes in towns.
 
I have views on bikes unpopular with cyclist friends. If you want to ride on the road, you should have a test and license, insurance, and number plate of some kind. And follow the same rules of the road other vehicles do.

Shockingly there is no speed limit for bikes in towns.
Bravo! I feel much the same. Can I join your gang please? I was nearly knocked over by a bike when coming out of the entrance to Asda. There's a wide paved area outside the entrance and I'd taken one stride out from the door when a bike, ridden by a young lady, shot past me at high speed clipping my shoulder. The fact she was riding on the pavement at all was unacceptable but the speed she was going at was ridiculous. I shouted after her but just got the usual single fingered gesture - What happened to the two fingers I remember so well? Had she collided with me I'd have been in the hospital.

I had a similar very frightening incident with an electric scooter just a couple of weeks ago whilst walking down the Ferry Road to the library. I had just passed Howard Johnston's garage when one of these fiendish devices overtook me from behind, It was on the pavement and going full chat - quite probably in excess of 20mph - and only very narrowly avoiding taking me out, I felt a very slight "tug" on my right arm as it grazed my coat and it gave me such a shock I realized I was shaking slightly and had to sit for a moment on the low wall opposite the PB station before I could continue. This makes me sound like an absolute wimp, which I can assure you I'm not. The experience really shattered me and has made me now very wary and slightly anxious when I'm out as I heard absolutely nothing to indicate it was approaching and could have easily stepped into it's path. I've since seen this particular individual, in the same area and riding at speed on the pavement on a number of occasions, but I'm reluctant to attempt any intervention as he looks like that wouldn't end well for me.

Some sort of training, licencing and insurance is needed for all these potentially lethal vehicles. By the way, I'd say it's pretty much a daily thing to see bikes being ridden on the pavement and the new bike lanes incorporated into the widened pavements (at the expense of roadway width, which is reduced anyway due to the new tram lines) on Leith walk are encouraging riders to continue on the pavement when the cycle lane isn't quite going where they want it to. I actually think it's only going to be a matter of time before someone is badly injured with this new setup as bikes and people are right next door to each other and, especially traveling down the Walk - which is downhill all the way - some cyclists are going at really stupid speeds with pedestrians only inches away. Much better definition between the cycle lane and the pedestrian walkway is needed, perhaps some sort of aggressive raised curb so the cyclist would fall off if trying to ride over it at any speed?
 
Cyclist groups should support that too, any person that doesn't know how to ride a bike can walk in, buy a bike, and straight on to a 60mph road with 40 ton lorries going by.

And chances are the lorry driver would get blamed when it goes wrong.
 
Cyclist groups should support that too, any person that doesn't know how to ride a bike can walk in, buy a bike, and straight on to a 60mph road with 40 ton lorries going by.

And chances are the lorry driver would get blamed when it goes wrong.
Simply being able to competently balance on a bike doesn't mean you are a competent bike rider. I learned to drive cars at a very early age by thrashing them round the fields. I learned an awful lot about car control and spent more time going sideways than in a straight line - it was great fun. This in no way prepared me for driving a car on the road. Of course I didn't have problems with stalling the engine and other car control problems learners have but that was the "simple" bit. No-one should be able to take a vehicle, be it bike, car, electric scooter or whatever, out in public spaces without in depth training, a licence to confirm such training has been undertaken and the standard achieved and, very importantly, third party insurance and something like a number plate by which the vehicle can be readily identified from a distance on the likes of camera systems.

Edit:- I know cyclists - and motor cyclists - are so much more vulnerable than enclosed vehicles but, for me, the balance has now tipped so far in their favour they feel they can do just as they like and get away with it, You see it every day, bikes going through red lights, being ridden on pavements and undertaking vehicles dangerously - especially where lorries are involved in heavy traffic.
 
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Great, bring it on I say. Haven't heard anything about this though and wasn't even aware of it until I read this. I'll not be holding my breath then?
Think I've mentioned thsi before but back when I was living in Belgium (1965-1977 Brussels) you had to effectively road tax your bike. Was cheap as I recall but also carried some form of general indurance/indemnity. The police were also hot on checking for the little coloured and stamped plate. Plate change colour each year so was easy to check at a distance. If caught without one then you were made to get off your bike and walk home. I got followed for some time to check I wasn't cheating.

https://bicycles.stackexchange.com/...pened-to-belgiums-bicycle-registration-scheme
 
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