General My Stilo Irks me already!

[pjp]

Do you mean stall the engine by releasing the clutch too quick ?

If so the answer is no - there is no clutch pedal - the gearbox is basically a manual one with some electronics and hydraulics doing what the gearlever and cluth pedal normally do.

Basically you use the gear lever to select first gear - it then automatically puts it in gear with the clutch disengaged - when you start to open the throttle pedal it feeds in the clutch just like you would in a manual. When you select up/down changes it dips the clutch changes gear (matches engine revs on down changes) and lets the clutch up again. If you slow down it automatically down changes at around 1200/1000rpm - if it gets close to idle speed it dips the clutch automatically to stop it stalling. This is a bit of pain in slow moving traffic queues - you can't crawl along at tickover speed in 1st gear - you have to be doing 1100rpm plus or it will slip the clutch. To save cluch wear I select neutral when ever I stop for a while just like in manual - if you don't it tends to 'drag' you forward as you slow down into 2nd/1st gear. Another thing that is a pain is the fact that you can't go from Neutral to first unless the car is stationary with foot on brakes, or moving - however at about 2mph it considers you stationary so you have to dab the brakes to get a gear which isn't what the people behond you are expecting!

Does this answer your question?

Paul

Stilo Abarth, Broom Yellow

 

[janevj]

yup, but i got so many others since i havent drive a car with that kind of gearbox.if you want to stop at the red light lets say, you go 3rd than 2nd than 1st and than Neutral???As I undorstood you, while you are driving, both of your hands should be on the wheel?what if you press the gass pedal all the way down,is it same as a very quick start with the weeeeeee thing in the manual gearbox cars or what?

FIAT STILO 1.6 3dR Tiziano Red
Sub=Pioneer TS WX20LPA
AUTOMOBILE SK

 

[pjp]

The car will automatically change down to 3rd, then 2nd, and eventually 1st when your stationary - if you don't quite stop at the junction it will stay in 2nd, so you normally end up forcing 1st gear to be sure. On the approach to a red light I tend to go straight to neutral just before it changes to 2nd, otherwise it keeps pulling you forward to the car in front.

To be hoenst I very rarely use the paddles - theyr'e ok for Schumi as he never turns the wheel more than 30 degrees either way, but on a road car the paddles are never where you want them unless your going in a straight line.

On a standing start it feeds the clutch in at a rate best suited to the amount of throttle you are giving it. If you hit the throttle hard it takes of like a rocket (haven't fully explored this yet - car only just covered 2000 miles!)

Paul

Stilo Abarth, Broom Yellow

 

[janevj]

thanks mate for showing me how it works. now i will go to the next auto gearbox car test cause it seems fun

FIAT STILO 1.6 3dR Tiziano Red
Sub=Pioneer TS WX20LPA
AUTOMOBILE SK

 

[James M]

All this selespeed stuff sounds a bit like hard work to me

Anyway, about the ASR thing, I once had a stack of fun in a Saab 9-3, in the wet, with the Traction off, it was a right larf you just watch the turbo gauge build up, and as it approaches the red zone, all hell is unleashed at the front wheels However, all though this car is near 200BHP, its is perfectly controlable with the TC off in the wet, if your sensible that is!

I also once drove a Passat 4motion V6 in the wet, again it has TC, and with it on, I doubt many cars could match it off the line in the wet, but I still think its more of a 'usefull luxury' than a neccesity on anything without silly amounts of power.

53 3d Stilo Dynamic JTD - Sprint Blue

 

[James M]

Oh, also meant to mention, I thought it well cheeky when I bought my car that the JTD didn't have ASR while the cheaper 1.8 did[xx(]

I know the 1.8 has a little more power, but thats at high revs, the JTD has stacks more torque at low revs, with I would have thought more likely to induce wheel spin, oh well, what do I know[?]

53 3d Stilo Dynamic JTD - Sprint Blue

 

[janevj]

James TC cant be called a luxury.You'll never know when will it be needed.Also, its ment for very very very aggressive turns (like you are driving and look to change a station and havent seen that something has come on the road) and thats the situation it will save your life or your cars life.anyway to sum it up, good to have, makes me feel more secure.

FIAT STILO 1.6 3dR Tiziano Red
Sub=Pioneer TS WX20LPA
AUTOMOBILE SK

 

[StiloBoy]

Its todays nanny culture, if you've never had it, you'll probably never need it. Best thing is get on a track and learn to drive properly, then you'll never need ASR.

If you've got ASR then great, but if it was such a great life saver it would be on all models, they only fit it to the top models so that if you drive like a tit there is a chance you'll live and won't be able to sue the manufacturer.

2003 3 Door Stilo 1.2 Active, Sassy Grey, plastic wheel trims - and 43mpg average so far. Love it, Oh yes!

 

[James M]

I reckon I'm with Stiloboy on this one[^]

53 3d Stilo Dynamic JTD - Sprint Blue

 

[janevj]

you might be right ... but look it this way ... it's the 21st century and lots and lots of stuff are not 'must have' but people will die to have them.in the 1900s when cars were not invented people lived very well anyway ... so it's everything up to the technology.I want to say that you dont need all the gadgets surrounding you but still you use them like you cannot live without them...right?

FIAT STILO 1.6 3dR Tiziano Red
Sub=Pioneer TS WX20LPA
AUTOMOBILE SK

 

[peterlloyd]

Used to feel traction control not needed but have changed view dramatically after driving without it for over 30 years.

In snow, ice or wet/muddy roads particularly when only one wheel is in the mud the additional stability and control is a major safety factor.

I am on my second Saab 9-3 and surprised at James's comments as on a 9-3 the traction control cannot be switched of at over 40 MPH or thereabouts. A bit like the girly button on my wife's stilo when set to off it comes back on again.

Try comparing the Saab 9-3 Viggen 230BHP no traction control and the Aero 205BHP with TC. Dipping the offside wheels into a muddy puddle on full turbo boost at 100MPH (Not on the road in the UK) makes you thank god for TC.

The principle is the same at all speeds and power. The general standard of driving on the roads particularly in the south east is so bad that perhaps it should be fitted to all cars - anything that might save the driver's life is not a luxury.

I can remember the days when friends used to say "I'm not wearing a seatbelt as it might prevent me being thrown free of an accident and surviving".

80 BHP on black ice is just as difficult to control as 205


Stilo Active 1.2 5 Door/ Panda 4X4

 

[James M]

I was larking about in the 9-3 in a car park so was under 40mph

Oh and I'd NEVER do 100mph That's just silly

53 3d Stilo Dynamic JTD - Sprint Blue

 

[StiloBoy]

If you need traction control at 100mph your obviously driving too hard for the road conditions, its as simple as that! [^]

Do you see F1 drivers trying to drive at full speed when its raining, no! The back off a bit, keep some in reserve! Rather that than backwards into the wall at 150mph! :I

The only cars i see that really need traction control are your average BMW who persist in rear wheel drive! So they can drive like hoons in good weather, but teeter and crawl around roundabout when its only slightly greasy and wet!

2003 3 Door Stilo 1.2 Active, Sassy Grey, plastic wheel trims - and 43mpg average so far. Love it, Oh yes!

 

[peterlloyd]

The point I was trying to make is that if it assists in keeping the car under control in difficult conditions it cannot be a bad thing. Traction control coming on at 100MPH because of one wheel losing traction is exactly the same as traction control coming on at 30 MPH because one wheel loses traction. If I had lost control where I was I would have had a long safe slide but at 30 MPH in traffic it could result in hitting a bus.
We will all make some mistakes when driving and if technology makes the difference between life and death when we do let us welcome it.
It may not be essential on a low powered car but if it has to do its job once then it's paid for itself.

Stilo Active 1.2 5 Door/ Panda 4X4

 

[mad_colm]

drove a 316i with traction control. beats me why you'd switch it off, not the kind of car you take on track days. mercedes sprinter has this too!

Met Cognac 99 Brava 100 HSX, wish it'd clean itself!

 

[pjp]

Their seems to be a common (and wrong) view that you are c**p driver if you need TC or ESP. Of course you can drive a car without them, but the whole point is that it can get you out of s**t when things go wrong.

Lets face it F1 drivers have every electronic driving aid known to man (and some that aren't). There is absolutely no way a human can do a better job than a decent ESP - it has the advantage of being able to brake each wheel independently.

My previous car was a BMW, and that was pretty undrivable in the wet without TC. I also got to try out the ESP courtesy of a learner driver. They came round a blind corner on a narrow country road on my side of the road. Despite jumping on the brakes and being forced half off the road so I had 2 wheels on wet asphalt, 2 on gravel, the car still went round the corner! Margin for error was probably in the order of a couple of inches - without a doubt the electronics saved the car from another idiot. Unfortunately another idiot with out ABS managed to rear end the car on the motorway a year later, depite having about a mile in which to stop.

In my view electronic driver aids have there place with both good and bad drivers alike - the only reason they don't get fitted as standard is all to do with model differentiation and profit margins. If you have ABS, TC costs nothing to add - its all done in software. ESP is similarly all software, with exception of the accelerometer.

Paul

Stilo Abarth, Broom Yellow

 

[janevj]

yeah i remember a couple of years ago when TC was out of F1 races, McLarens used to have a third pedal (besides the brake and the accelerate) which made their tyres brake independent on of another,but it was not perfect enough since of course, human controlled it not a computer.

FIAT STILO 1.6 3dR Tiziano Red
Sub=Pioneer TS WX20LPA
AUTOMOBILE SK

 

[StiloBoy]

All Stilo's have ABS only the powerfull ones have TC! So do Fiat assume that Lower specc'd cars are driven with more care? Or that owners of the lower specc'd cars deserve to die in a major accident! B)

I see you pointed out another misconception that ABS helps you stop quicker! It is a proven fact ABS helps you stop safer in poor conditions but in pretty much all instances ABS stops you longer (i.e you will stop a few metres further down the road than a non-ABS car).

I have driven a Saxo VTS with ABS working and with ABS failed and i can categorcally state that the car stopped far quicker with out ABS, and in my hands just as safely!

ABS is best for people who drive too fast in the rain, and for people who tense up in an emergency stop! If you are a driver who uses their wits at all times behind a wheel you will find ABS will never kick in! [V]

Also whatever happened to teaching the lost art of Cadence braking! I had a woman in a Clio come screaming past me on a motorway at 70+mph with her front wheels totally locked for a good 200-300 metres, i tapped my brakes a couple of times and shed twice the speed she'd lost and i also never ripped my tyres to shreds. [:0]

The only reason the higher specc'd cars come with more goodies is 'cos the difference in engine spec's is usually minimal, or productions costs of the engines is pennies more expensive for the bigger engined cars and the manufacturer wants to make a bigger profit! :I

2003 3 Door Stilo 1.2 Active, Sassy Grey, plastic wheel trims - and 43mpg average so far. Love it, Oh yes!

 

[peterlloyd]

Originally all Stilos had TC, my wife's 1.2 has it. Taking it off had to be a cost saving exercise.

Stiloboy you're right about ABS most people forget it is there to enable you to keep control whilst braking hard not to help you stop in a shorter distance. In snow it actually cuses the car to stop much later as with the whhels locked the snow builds up in front of the wheels and brings the car to a stop. I've seen a film of it happening (2 cars side by side on 3 inches of snow the one without abs stopped in about half the distance) and ever since have been concerned that it cannop be switched off.



Stilo Active 1.2 5 Door/ Panda 4X4

 

[pjp]

I'm sure it is possible for a skilled driver to demonstrate a car stopping quicker (in a straight line) without ABS. What this does not show is that for a random selection of people in that same car, >90% will stop better WITH ABS.

In the case that the young lady ran into the back of me, she panic braked very late, and slid the car for several hundred yards on the wet surface before hitting me. If she had ABS she probably would have stopped, or steered around me as the other 2 lanes were empty!

At the end of the day your dealing with averages, and on average ABS is a positive thing to have.

As for costs, I don't believe that is the main issue now - the main issue is marketing (maintaning model differentiation). A number of years ago I was an engineer with one of the major manufacturers, and believe it or not the base models cost more to produce than the top of the range models!

Paul


Stilo Abarth, Broom Yellow