Technical Multipla JTD 1.9 Clutch Replacement (in progress...)

[BikeDoc]

Gearbox is back on

Didn't seem to want to go fully on at first, maybe I was being a bit over-cautious as I didn't want to damage the O/S output shaft seal (I didn't disconnect the O/S hub, left the shaft in place and pulled the 'box off it), but it went on with a big push from my boot in the end.

Managed to do it all myself, with a liberal application of straps, blocks and jacks.
Only help needed was my Son turning the O/S disc to help the shaft splines slot into the 'box.

Rain's just stopped play, plus I really need a couple of hours kip before work tonight

Should get it all back together tomorrow, weather permitting

 

[widemouthfrog]

Come on MarkX, give us an update. We've got the champagne on ice here......

 

[MarkX]

>>>Bussed into town this morning and booked the MOT for first thing Monday morning (£45).

Did it pass?

To put you out of your misery, Alpitium and widemouthfrog... YES! With flying colours. Just an advisory on an old number plate. Must be that reflective furniture polish I sprayed on it to deceive the speed cameras... NO NO JOKE JOKE !!!!!

The garage charged me only £10 to do the pre-MOT checks, so £55 total to get through the MOT. However the garage did pre-warn me that the front wishbones might need doing (they did) and the front brake discs were shot, so factor that in: £55 + 2 wishbones (2 x £40) + brake discs and pads (2 x £25 + £30) + drop links (2 x £12) + track rod ends (2 x £10) + windscreen washer fix (tubing and new pump) (£5 + £12) = £276 total. And of course £0 for labour on those jobs. Not bad for a 13 year old car, and a lot better than it could have been.

Got the car taxed and went for a drive round - got my wings back for the first time in nearly 7 months without a car. A good feeling. However...

Monday evening I parked up outside my house for the first time in 18 days. Drove off the following morning to do some shopping, just got into my local town 5 miles away and the front of the car started to feel distinctly wobbly. Very worrying. Having done the front suspension, my first thought was that something had come undone. Pulled over immediately before I crashed. Front suspension looked OK, nothing looked loose. Then I saw the NS front wheel, the wheel was hanging on/off by only one wheel nut, it had pulled about an inch away from the brake disc/hub, and was about to fall off completely. Bl**dy hell ! I rang the garage immediately to ask whether the front wheels had been taken off before, during or after the MOT. Answer: No. (don't think they take the wheels off anyway at MOT eh?). I said that 3 out of the 4 wheel nuts are missing, and he said: They have been taken.

So the very night I bring the car back to the house, 3 wheel nuts go missing. Called the police, and they want to investigate. Met with a very clued-up police officer who intends to be very thorough: check what the garage did first, then take it from there...

I nicked one wheel nut from each of the other good wheels to get the NS wheel back on, and drove straight to the partstealers to get some (original) locking wheel nuts for the Multipla (£15 for 4 with socket, in stock).

Don't know yet whether its: a) Mistake by the garage, b) Attempt to steal the wheel or nuts, or c) Attempt to do something worse than that.

Mark

 

[widemouthfrog]

Firstly, congrats for the MOT pass and getting back on the road:woot::slayer:

Sounds like a near miss with the wheel though. The MOT would (should) pick up missing wheel nuts, so it sounds as though someone's been trying to help themselves. At least there's no permanent damage (?)

 

[MarkX]

Firstly, congrats for the MOT pass and getting back on the road

Thanks widemouthfrog. And what a road it's been...

The MOT would (should) pick up missing wheel nuts, so it sounds as though someone's been trying to help themselves.

That's what I think. Can't believe they'd miss something so obvious. I think that when they're checking the wheel bearing and suspension they put the car on a lift, grab hold of the front wheel and give it a good heave back and forth. Anything loose would show up, and any missing nuts would be staring the tester in the face?

If they've been nicked it must be someone quite local as it happened the very night I brought my car back to the house after 18 nights away, so whoever it was knew the car was back. I am at the bottom of a quiet street away from/hidden from any main road. Off to the copshop tomorrow to make a statement.

At least there's no permanent damage (?)

Two of the holes in the NS wheel are slightly enlarged, but other than that it looks OK.

When I checked more closely the other day, 1 nut was still in place but almost undone, 2 nuts were missing entirely, and the head of the 4th nut had sheared off leaving the body of the bolt still stuck in the wheelhub (came out easily by hand).

Still a few small jobs left to do - order and install proper OS wishbone bolts. Reinstall NS wheelarch liner, and the liner which covers the fanbelt pulley on the OS. No rush. And the new front brakes are scraping a bit, the garage said to just check the tightness of the caliper bolts etc. If I'm not sure I'll get the pros to check/adjust things.

PS. When I've got some time I hope to summarize my experience of the clutch replacement - cutting out the waffle - using Notes for Novices as a template, highlighting any deviations, improvements or tips I can think of.

Mark

 

[BikeDoc]

There really are some low-lifes around these days

Glad you realised something was up in time, could have been nasty.

I know it's an isolated case, but it makes you realise how important a quick visual once-over can be, but we just don't think of it . . .

As for the sheared bolt, could be one of a few things.
Could have been over-torqued at some point.
Whoever removed the others may have gone the 'wrong way' with the wrench and sheared it off (unlikely though).
It may have been untouched, but sheared off after the other two had fallen out.

Whatever, it's not nice to have it happen.


Good news about the MOT though, glad your up-and-running again.

 

[BikeDoc]

Got it up and running again yesterday evening

My heart sank when I first drove it forwards to get the rear wheel chocks out, it made a nasty grumbling/graunching sound, couldn't think what it could be.
Had a quick look under the N/S arch, and there was the bottom of my spring compressors just touching the tyre

All good now, biting point is still a bit closer to the floor than I like, so I'll try bleeding it.

This is where the arm sits as standard, with my backstop spring connected it comes back about 3mm further. The internal spring in the slave is quite strong . . .


I'll try getting an internal picture with the Borescope soon.
Before I fitted the slave cylinder, I could feel where the release bearing contacted the clutch spring fingers, and I'm sure with the backstop spring it'll be fully disengaging.

 

[boilermansab]

If it works...you will have to start mass producing them for the multiplayer faithful!

 

[BikeDoc]

I've thought of a simpler design, I do tend to over-engineer things!

It would be similar, but the stop would be fixed to the bar that goes in the hole in the 'box, and the spring would attach to the arm with a simple clip, so no drilling/tapping required.

Thing is, I've since been thinking that maybe the idea is that if the release ring (the part that contacts the spring fingers) is always in light contact, then there's no relative movement, so less wear, although there will still always be slight wear from the fingers sliding over the ring when the Clutch is worked (the ends of the fingers move inwards towards the centre as they're compressed).
Plus of course, the bearing race is spinning all the time the engine is turning.

With it out of contact, you'll also get some wear each time the ring first contacts the fingers, as the release bearing has to spin-up.
So maybe it's better if it's left as-is

I think I'll leave it with the backstop for now, and keep an eye on it with the Borescope, check for wear every so often . . .

 

[widemouthfrog]

I think the grooves worn in the fingers on everyone's diaphragm proves that the release bearing isn't spinning all the time, at least not at the same speed as the clutch, even if it is in contact. The release bearing is not in an enviable spot; hanging in the middle of nowhere, no external lubrication possible, put under variable load and probably not concentrically loaded when it is. I wouldn't want to be one!

For the spring mount, my thought was to put a clamp around the fork arm. No drilling as you say but it also gives a simple means of adjusting the pull force applied by the spring (just slide the clamp along the arm a bit).

 

[BikeDoc]

Could work.
My initial thought was to have a fixed spring clip on the arm, and you could alter the spring tension (if necessary) by moving the hook in/out using spacers in the bore where it sits.

I'll probably go through a few ideas before I find the simplest one . . .

 

[MarkX]

Hello Folks,

Very quick update...

Clutch/gears: After nearly a week back on the road, the clutch and gears are performing well, there is no gear crunching at all, even engaging reverse (touch wood). And I haven't even bled the system yet since the clutch went 7 months ago.

Front brakes: They are settling down as the pads bed in.

NS front wheel: I don't think I'll ever find out why it fell off. If it was the garage they aren't talking - no surprise there. The car goes into their garage and the next day the wheel falls off! Doesn't look good for them, does it? But someone could've tried to pinch or sabotage the wheel.

My left foot: Great feeling being able to drive round again, however I noticed the bottom of my left foot was quite sore?? Took a while to dawn on me that my foot hasn't pressed a clutch pedal for 7 months!

Mark

 

[MarkX]

Hello Folks,

Quick question:

Gear changing still fine. Enjoying driving my non-crunchy-gears Multipla around, however...

Clutch engagement: the clutch seems to engage over a short movement of the clutch pedal (near the top of the pedal movement), seems a bit harsh/abrupt. I have to conciously let the clutch pedal out slowly to avoid jerking into gear.

Is this normal operation? Would bleeding the clutch? Replacing clutch slave or master cylinder? - improve things/give smoother clutch engagement?

Reminder: I have renewed all of the clutch system plus flywheel, bar the slave and master cylinder. Didn't bleed the clutch when I replaced it.

RSVP anyone in the know.

Mark

 

[widemouthfrog]

Sounds about right. It's not a particularly 'progressive' clutch action. As long as you haven't got a sudden step in the clutch pedal movement (caused by a worn master cylinder bore) then all sounds in order.

The clutch engaging near the TOP of pedal travel means you've got plenty of life left in the clutch - which you already know!

 

[MultiplaAbarth]

Welcome back Mark,
I reckon with all the things you've changed, that a slave cylinder would be the thing to change.
Reasons : They are a fairly common weak point, they dont last that long, they wear out before the master cylinder, they are relatively cheap, the job isnt too bad to do.
There are many how to guides about, especially about bleeding the buggas.
I replaced my clutch in April like you and also replaced the slave and also master internals only, the change is still close to the top of travel, but no crunching and nice gearchange still.
IMHO I do think its worth replacing the slave....I think the seals just lose their sealness... (a new technical term..)
Cheers,
Seg

 

[MarkX]

Cheers MultiplaAbarth. Hello again. No cash at the moment, but will try changing the slave cylinder once some dosh rolls in. I'm missing doing some mechanic-ing after the clutch change epic!

I'll take the opportunity now to thank everyone on the Forum who contributed with their help, advice and encouragement on the clutch change, without which I wouldn't have attempted or completed the job.

And I definitely want to summarize my experience at some point, but I've got more pressing things to attend to at the mo'.

 

[MarkX]

the change is still close to the top of travel, but no crunching and nice gearchange still.

So "nice gearchange" = smooth clutch/gear engagement as you release the clutch pedal? or...

PS. Nothing to do with cars... German beating Brazil 6-0 in the World Cup as I type. Who would've thunk it!

Err... Make that 7-0

 

[MarkX]

Sounds about right. It's not a particularly 'progressive' clutch action. As long as you haven't got a sudden step in the clutch pedal movement (caused by a worn master cylinder bore) then all sounds in order.

The clutch engaging near the TOP of pedal travel means you've got plenty of life left in the clutch - which you already know!

Cheers widemouthfrog.