Technical Mongolian fuel

[Kahn Fu Panda]

Hi all, I've just been informed by my trusty Haynes manual that my Panda (a 1986 1000s) is designed to run on either super unleaded (98 octane) or leaded 4 star.
As I understand it most of Mongolia and Kazakhstan offer 95 octane unleaded or 93 octane leaded. We're doing the Mongol rally next year, so has anyone got got a better idea than carrying several gallons of octane booster with me?

 

[kolza]

Believe me, you will take anything what is out there in the pump.
We had 55 litre tank and 4x25 jerry cans. Only ones got down to 3rd jerry can.

With Panda it will look completely different as tank is smaller and you can't ( will not) carry 100kg of fuel.

One thing worth to invest is Mr. Funnel fuel funnel with build in prefilter to remove any debris from the rusty in-ground storage tanks. Our carry had in-tank fuel pump and that was the main case to pre-filter.

 

[Sjvarley]

Believe me, you will take anything what is out there in the pump.
We had 55 litre tank and 4x25 jerry cans. Only ones got down to 3rd jerry can.

With Panda it will look completely different as tank is smaller and you can't ( will not) carry 100kg of fuel.

One thing worth to invest is Mr. Funnel fuel funnel with build in prefilter to remove any debris from the rusty in-ground storage tanks. Our carry had in-tank fuel pump and that was the main case to pre-filter.

Best ditch one of the sons to get a better mpg or gallons per hour fit a dung powered steam engine or even go flinstones style [emoji1360][emoji209]

 

[Kahn Fu Panda]

I think that's my point. We'll have to take what we can get, but would really like to avoid banging holes in pistons.
I've been running through ideas like an extra head gasket or retarding the ignition a tad, but non of them feel safe to me. Actually, if I guesstimate at 1200l of fuel it wouldn'the take a horrible huge amount of additive. But it's hardly an elegant solution.
I've got a filtered funnel and additional in line filter on my list

 

[Kahn Fu Panda]

I think that's my point. We'll have to take what we can get, but would really like to avoid banging holes in pistons.
I've been running through ideas like an extra head gasket or retarding the ignition a tad, but non of them feel safe to me. Actually, if I guesstimate at 1200l of fuel it wouldn'the take a horribly huge amount of additive. But it's hardly an elegant solution.
I've got a filtered funnel and additional in line filter on my list but please keep the suggestions coming.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Is the car fuel injection or carburettor? If it's carb don't worry it will run on pretty much anything. If it's SPI you'll just have to get used to cleaning the jet out regularly.

The grade of fuel is only required due to the valve seats in the cylinder head. Most of the early Pandas were supposed to run on higher octagon or leaded fuel, but for the longevity of the engine itself it makes little difference as the rest of the car will rot away before the engine gives up.

As kolza states, filter the fuel as much as possible grab what you can.

 

[Didge3]

Really the 999cc engine is supposed to run on 98? I'm pretty sure everybody has been putting in regular 95 in for years, I certainly never put 98 in mine when I had it?

 

[kolza]

get used to cleaning the jet out regularly.
QUOTE]

If there will be a need to do that, I would recommend to make/ take with you length of 6mm air tube with tyre valve attachment on one side and pressured air dispenser/pistol on the other side or just have few spare co2 cartridges and dispenser with needle as used to pump basketball.


Any pressurised air will help in clearing off blocked jets, blowing out any crap from carb, removing/drying any water from spark plug sockets.

 

[g8rpi]

Is the car fuel injection or carburettor? If it's carb don't worry it will run on pretty much anything. If it's SPI you'll just have to get used to cleaning the jet out regularly.

The grade of fuel is only required due to the valve seats in the cylinder head. Most of the early Pandas were supposed to run on higher octagon or leaded fuel, but for the longevity of the engine itself it makes little difference as the rest of the car will rot away before the engine gives up.

As @kolza states, filter the fuel as much as possible grab what you can.

While the Panda's engine is not highly tuned, it does need a reasonable grade of fuel. It's not just valve seats, anything significantly less than 95 RON can cause knocking and holed pistons. The OP is correct to be concerned. Local fuel can be poor or adulterated in many countries. Even Series (older non injection models) Landrovers can have issues, hardly a highly tuned engine but even they can suffer holed pistons. Export models for many regions were further detuned. I've personally witnessed this issue when a UK car was run on local fuel. Retarding the ignition a touch or at least setting it to the retarded end of the limit is a good precaution, and if you mark the distributor, easily reversed.


Robert G8RPI.


Robert G8RPI.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

While the Panda's engine is not highly tuned, it does need a reasonable grade of fuel. It's not just valve seats, anything significantly less than 95 RON can cause knocking and holed pistons. The OP is correct to be concerned. Local fuel can be poor or adulterated in many countries. Even Series (older non injection models) Landrovers can have issues, hardly a highly tuned engine but even they can suffer holed pistons. Export models for many regions were further detuned. I've personally witnessed this issue when a UK car was run on local fuel. Retarding the ignition a touch or at least setting it to the retarded end of the limit is a good precaution, and if you mark the distributor, easily reversed.


Robert G8RPI.


Robert G8RPI.

We're not talking about Landrovers or other models though. I had one of the earlier Mk2s which was supposed to run on high octane or leaded, which I only found out about when we went to Italy. Both myself and the previous owner had run it on low grade for most of it's life with zero problems.

For the length of time he has to worry about using the fuel over there I wouldn't be worried, these engines are very tough indeed.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Really the 999cc engine is supposed to run on 98? I'm pretty sure everybody has been putting in regular 95 in for years, I certainly never put 98 in mine when I had it?

Only certain ones, there are a series of engine numbers on the earlier models stated in the Haynes book of lies which require the better grade fuel.

 

[kolza]

Just go for it!!!


To much planning is not good as well as when times goes you will realise how many aspects are open and left to your luck.


Simply make a rough estimates on how many pandas made it to Ulaanbaatar in last 20 years, next find some evidence of any not making there and back.
Risk in part this event. Less kg means less load on engine less chances to something to pop.

 

[g8rpi]

We're not talking about Landrovers or other models though. I had one of the earlier Mk2s which was supposed to run on high octane or leaded, which I only found out about when we went to Italy. Both myself and the previous owner had run it on low grade for most of it's life with zero problems.

For the length of time he has to worry about using the fuel over there I wouldn't be worried, these engines are very tough indeed.

Sorry but you don't get the point.
What you consider "low grade" e.g. 95 or even 89 RON in the UK a (and Italy) is NOT what you will get outside major cities in places like Mongolia.
There you are lucky if the pump says a RON number (but that was probably left over from the country it was re-cycled from) and the fuel you get is unlikely to meet any recognised standard. Adulteration with kerosene (or worse) is not uncommon, even if the fuel was OK (ish) when it left the refinery. I'm not disputing that a Panda will run on any grade of petrol you can buy in the UK or most of the EU without immediate (if any)damage, as will any Landrover, but it's not what is being discussed

Robert G8RPI.
P.S. Earlier models ran on "higher" grade fuel because it was the only leaded fuel available and they needed the lead to stop valve seat wear, not it's anti knock properties. This is also why Series Landrovers would not run on unleaded, they are happy to run on less than 90 RON as long as it has lead in it.

 

[Kahn Fu Panda]

If it helps the debate, I can certainly confirm that running on RON 95 fuel in this country I can hear it pinking if I try to accelerate hard or lug the engine.
From the wording of the manual I'don't say it'seems certainly an issue concerning pinking (knock) rather than valve seat wear, or they wouldn'the say it'seems OK if driven gently.

 

[Kahn Fu Panda]

Sorry, message slightly gibbered by predictive text.

 

[AndyPanda4x4]

Sorry but you don't get the point.

The point of the discussion is that this chap wants to take his Panda to Mongolia and wondering whether or not it will do the trip out there using rubbish fuel. IN MY OPINION based on the points I put forward; it will be just fine.

 

[Dragon Man]

ive been running my punto engine'd panda on contaminated fuel (Talon had it too a few years ago). a diesel car was filled with petrol, apparently it had 1/3 of a tank and was filled the rest of the way with petrol.

with Talon did not notice any difference in power output from the engine i did get slight knock under acceleration but giving the distributor a twist soon fixed it. the injected engine didnt care one bit.. it just auto compensated i never heard any knocks. both cars had an empty tank when i put the contaminated fuel in. hell i only paid £10 for almost 70 liters of fuel! (im my line of work i get it a lot)

dono if this helps?

 

[pandamaniac]

John
I do hope it was clear diesel that was mixed and not the red agricultural stuff that is for farmers only.
Dave

 

[dragonwagon]

It should be fine - my old 4x4 will run on pretty much anything - even kerosene !
When I bought mine from a livery stables many, many moons ago it actually had kero in it and still ran well....

 

[Sjvarley]

It should be fine - my old 4x4 will run on pretty much anything - even kerosene !
When I bought mine from a livery stables many, many moons ago it actually had kero in it and still ran well....

Your panda will get there and back it's an adventure, the idea is to cope with the situation which arises , just think how many gap year students who have done it with only beer fags and a good selection of music [emoji1360]in a £200 panda and still made it ahhhh!!!