OP
OP
re: JTD - GSR induction & Red-Dot remaps!
Maybe in the new year.... where abouts though
Maybe in the new year.... where abouts though
Tuning JTD - GSR induction & Red-Dot remaps!
- Thread starter ABZSTILO
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Tuning JTD - GSR induction & Red-Dot remaps!
re: JTD - GSR induction & Red-Dot remaps!
its near me. 548 miles from you
Maybe in the new year.... where abouts though
its near me. 548 miles from you
re: JTD - GSR induction & Red-Dot remaps!
depending on what is up with the car when the engine is in i may be up for this? although i will be having a trip to the original tuner to reduce the power in my map as i dont want another turbo/engine to go.
depending on what is up with the car when the engine is in i may be up for this? although i will be having a trip to the original tuner to reduce the power in my map as i dont want another turbo/engine to go.
OP
OP
re: JTD - GSR induction & Red-Dot remaps!
Hmmm.... a long way then. Still, went that far for a remap and induction kit to begin with so may be worth considering
its near me. 548 miles from you
Hmmm.... a long way then. Still, went that far for a remap and induction kit to begin with so may be worth considering
re: JTD - GSR induction & Red-Dot remaps!
Map and induction done at bromsgrove.. thats why Frank is going back to get the original map from THEM put back.. got dust in me eye..
Hmmm.... a long way then. Still, went that far for a remap and induction kit to begin with so may be worth considering
Map and induction done at bromsgrove..
thats why Frank is going back to get the original map from THEM put back.. got dust in me eye.. 
re: JTD - GSR induction & Red-Dot remaps!
If it's the latter then I believe any Fiat garage with Examiner can do that - at least that's what Bozzy discovered.
So are you considering having the original map modified (based on standard induction) or do you mean you want it removed?
If it's the latter then I believe any Fiat garage with Examiner can do that - at least that's what Bozzy discovered.
re: JTD - GSR induction & Red-Dot remaps!
im thinking mainly original induction except for cone filter then de-tune the map to say 130-140bhp ish. so as not to take the engine to its peramiters. also the benefit of the standard oil catch tank.
im thinking mainly original induction except for cone filter then de-tune the map to say 130-140bhp ish. so as not to take the engine to its peramiters. also the benefit of the standard oil catch tank.
JTD Cone Filter
Hey, i know theres quite a few threads on JTD maps and induction kits but i was just wonering?
would getting a cone filter (no remap... yet) give me any bleep bleep warnings?
how much would it improve acceleration/power? and lower fuel economy?
it would attach to the end of the MAF pipe right? how would this be supported, the extra weight of the filter and no support from the stock air system would surely makes this sag harmfully?
Also has any one done this and told their insurers ? what about mapping it too and told them, does it go up much because if you don't tell them wont it invalidate your insurance if you crash?
cheers
Stuart
Hey, i know theres quite a few threads on JTD maps and induction kits but i was just wonering?
would getting a cone filter (no remap... yet) give me any bleep bleep warnings?
how much would it improve acceleration/power? and lower fuel economy?
it would attach to the end of the MAF pipe right? how would this be supported, the extra weight of the filter and no support from the stock air system would surely makes this sag harmfully?
Also has any one done this and told their insurers
? what about mapping it too and told them, does it go up much because if you don't tell them wont it invalidate your insurance if you crash?cheers
Stuart
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Re: JTD Cone Filter
You can however just fit a replacement panel filter
Your question doesn't make a lot of sense since a cone filter can't be fitted to the oem induction on its own. You can strip out the induction and replace it completely (GSR style) but that's when you get the beeps.
You can however just fit a replacement panel filter
YesAlso has any one done this and told their insurers
Re: JTD Cone Filter
im gues oem refers to the factory induction system, im not really sure what the GSR set up looks like as i havn't seen it before.
the cone filter i was refering to looks like this:
(thanks to muppet)
i was just wondering if theres a better way to support it than string?
muppet also said he doesn't get the beep beeps but has anyone else had experinec with this kind of set up?
cheers
im gues oem refers to the factory induction system, im not really sure what the GSR set up looks like as i havn't seen it before.
the cone filter i was refering to looks like this:
(thanks to muppet)
i was just wondering if theres a better way to support it than string?
muppet also said he doesn't get the beep beeps but has anyone else had experinec with this kind of set up?
cheers
Re: JTD Cone Filter
Well, that's definitely on the end of the MAF assembly so you've just proven me wrong
You'd have to remove the original air-box to do it though as the cone filter is sitting in the same position as the air-box.
It's a better set-up than the GSR system (since MAF is still in the correct position) but it's going to be major engine killer if you hit any water and that's not to mention all the hot air it's going to pick up instead of the nice cold air feed you get as standard.
Well, that's definitely on the end of the MAF assembly so you've just proven me wrong
You'd have to remove the original air-box to do it though as the cone filter is sitting in the same position as the air-box.
It's a better set-up than the GSR system (since MAF is still in the correct position) but it's going to be major engine killer if you hit any water and that's not to mention all the hot air it's going to pick up instead of the nice cold air feed you get as standard.
Re: JTD Cone Filter
lol this GSR set up sounds a little complicated, if any one has pics it would be cool to see.
i was think bout the warm air but i don't think it would be a major issue, u could put in a heat shield and maybe a direct air feed and the intercooler will do loads to cool the air down before it goes in the engine, but warmer air isn't as dense so yeah you have a valid point as it wont be sucking in as much air at the filter as it would if it was in a cold source.
lol this GSR set up sounds a little complicated, if any one has pics it would be cool to see.
i was think bout the warm air but i don't think it would be a major issue, u could put in a heat shield and maybe a direct air feed and the intercooler will do loads to cool the air down before it goes in the engine, but warmer air isn't as dense so yeah you have a valid point as it wont be sucking in as much air at the filter as it would if it was in a cold source.
Re: JTD Cone Filter
Well............,
To be quite honest with you i have done nearly 2000 miles now with the filter as is, And its not moved or sucked in any water dispite having no undertray on and being held up with round bale twine.
I have not had so much of a beep beep, it sounds quite different and so far havent noticed any fuel comsumption difference either.
I will one day work out a way of fixing it with a bracket but why fix what aint broke yet, The only other thing to remember is to pull the oil drip container off the bottom of the air box and tie that to the car.
As for sucking in air i would have thought it was sucking in more, might be slightly warmer but who knows, Its still as quick and i think the turbo spins up quicker now too.
Job Sorted:devil::devil::devil:
Well............,
To be quite honest with you i have done nearly 2000 miles now with the filter as is, And its not moved or sucked in any water dispite having no undertray on and being held up with round bale twine.
I have not had so much of a beep beep, it sounds quite different and so far havent noticed any fuel comsumption difference either.
I will one day work out a way of fixing it with a bracket but why fix what aint broke yet, The only other thing to remember is to pull the oil drip container off the bottom of the air box and tie that to the car.
As for sucking in air i would have thought it was sucking in more, might be slightly warmer but who knows, Its still as quick and i think the turbo spins up quicker now too.
Job Sorted:devil::devil::devil:
john55
Established member
Re: JTD Cone Filter
de-cat it or bigger exhaust if you want the turbo to spin up very fast and from low revs.
I drove mine with the exhaust off once. Loud, but fast
de-cat it or bigger exhaust if you want the turbo to spin up very fast and from low revs.
I drove mine with the exhaust off once. Loud, but fast
Re: JTD Cone Filter
this guy was running 260bhp on his std air intake on his alfa 147 jtd
quote
"Why do you say the stock intake is restrictive?, on what data do you rely on for that information?. I make 260hp on a MAHA with 100% stock injection and intake systems, even the air filter is the stock one!. I'm talking about 25.3lb/min of air going into that engine at 4000rpms after almost 40s of hard beating dyno test with around 60ºC of intakes. On the road it never reaches 40ºC, do you know what that means?...
Anyway, at 4500rpms the turbo is still making the required pressure, so, no restriction whatsoever from the air box. The turbo might be doing some "overtime" work, but I don't believe so ...."
heres the full thread
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tuning-and-upgrades/101646-147-jtd-1-9-16v-250hp-dyno-maha-3.html
based on this thats why i stayed at k+n in std air box, if hes running that sort of air flow.
had a look on eper and the 147 intake looks worse if anything as it has an extra turn after the filter into the maf.
http://62.195.105.49:7080/navi?MOD_...3&WINDOW_ID=1&SGRP_COD=23&SGS_COD=2&DRW_NUM=2
regarding pre cat have been trying for a while to find something suitable
this is pretty close but opposite hand as astras inlet/exhaust are opposite stilos
but it gives you a good idea of what would be needed.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ASTRA-MK5-PRE...14&_trkparms=72:1683|66:4|65:12|39:1|240:1318
this guy was running 260bhp on his std air intake on his alfa 147 jtd
quote
"Why do you say the stock intake is restrictive?, on what data do you rely on for that information?. I make 260hp on a MAHA with 100% stock injection and intake systems, even the air filter is the stock one!. I'm talking about 25.3lb/min of air going into that engine at 4000rpms after almost 40s of hard beating dyno test with around 60ºC of intakes. On the road it never reaches 40ºC, do you know what that means?...
Anyway, at 4500rpms the turbo is still making the required pressure, so, no restriction whatsoever from the air box. The turbo might be doing some "overtime" work, but I don't believe so ...."
heres the full thread
http://www.alfaowner.com/Forum/tuning-and-upgrades/101646-147-jtd-1-9-16v-250hp-dyno-maha-3.html
based on this thats why i stayed at k+n in std air box, if hes running that sort of air flow.
had a look on eper and the 147 intake looks worse if anything as it has an extra turn after the filter into the maf.
http://62.195.105.49:7080/navi?MOD_...3&WINDOW_ID=1&SGRP_COD=23&SGS_COD=2&DRW_NUM=2
regarding pre cat have been trying for a while to find something suitable
this is pretty close but opposite hand as astras inlet/exhaust are opposite stilos
but it gives you a good idea of what would be needed.
http://cgi.ebay.co.uk/ASTRA-MK5-PRE...14&_trkparms=72:1683|66:4|65:12|39:1|240:1318
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Re: JTD Cone Filter
I notice in another thread you're talking about getting your car resprayed. Now I don't know just how bad the colour is but if owned your motor I'd want to sort the induction out and find an undertray as a priority first!
There's no point in comparing gains (or losses) when stationary - it's what's happening at (say) speeds in excess of 100 that counts.
At a theoretical 100mph plus
OK, so you've been lucky - but why take the risk
I notice in another thread you're talking about getting your car resprayed. Now I don't know just how bad the colour is
but if owned your motor I'd want to sort the induction out and find an undertray as a priority first!There's no point in comparing gains (or losses) when stationary - it's what's happening at (say) speeds in excess of 100 that counts.
At a theoretical 100mph plus
- Standard RAM driven induction is providing a very good supply of cold air.
- Undertray is reducing turbulence to air flow under car.
Exactly
Re: JTD Cone Filter
Well hang on a second, I haven't said a word about the air going in the filter apart from the fact i thought the turbo spins up quicker and to be honest who gives a monkeys ar*e. Oh as for cooler air thats what the inter-coolers for.
So apart from my nice blue string how is my filter different to the GSR induction that i nearly had from Oz, I mean that still takes the air from the engine bay from pic's i have seen and the added bonus is i DON'T get any bleep bleeps.
But i guess because I'm not working much at the mo i haven't got the money to sort out a bracket for the filter but hey like i said i ain't bothered one bit by the string.
At a theoretical 100 MPH it appears that there is no difference in the induction comparing new for old as far as i can tell with a recent journey of 470 miles the adv fuel consumption was 52.6 mpg.
As for luck none needed, the filter wont suck in anything like dust or **** that will hurt the engine, its affixed to the pipe so it wont fall off so the only slight hiccup that might occur is if the bale twine broke but anybody who knows about it will tell you its quite strong.
The under tray is in my shed at the mo so i guess it might get put back on one day:devil:.
Well hang on a second, I haven't said a word about the air going in the filter apart from the fact i thought the turbo spins up quicker and to be honest who gives a monkeys ar*e. Oh as for cooler air thats what the inter-coolers for.
So apart from my nice blue string how is my filter different to the GSR induction that i nearly had from Oz, I mean that still takes the air from the engine bay from pic's i have seen and the added bonus is i DON'T get any bleep bleeps.
But i guess because I'm not working much at the mo i haven't got the money to sort out a bracket for the filter but hey like i said i ain't bothered one bit by the string.
At a theoretical 100 MPH it appears that there is no difference in the induction comparing new for old as far as i can tell with a recent journey of 470 miles the adv fuel consumption was 52.6 mpg.
As for luck none needed, the filter wont suck in anything like dust or **** that will hurt the engine, its affixed to the pipe so it wont fall off so the only slight hiccup that might occur is if the bale twine broke but anybody who knows about it will tell you its quite strong.
The under tray is in my shed at the mo so i guess it might get put back on one day:devil:.
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Re: JTD Cone Filter
If it's for a 3 door, i'll buy it if you don't want it. PM me if interested
If it's for a 3 door, i'll buy it if you don't want it. PM me if interested
Re: JTD Cone Filter
but personally neither set-up would get to stay on my JTD for very long
If you noticed I said from the start that I thought your set-up was BETTER than the GSR induction (no beeps as you say) and at the end of the day it's your car and you have a right to do anything you want to it
but personally neither set-up would get to stay on my JTD for very long
OP
OP
Re: JTD Cone Filter
Interesting stuff
I've been a tad busy of late hence a lack of posts on any forum but I have found out that the beep beep (how gay does that sound?!) on my JTD is entirely down to the Red Dot remap...... essentially the Fiat ECU & sensors do not like the amount of boost it's running one little bit.
Solution?
Replace the map sensor with something that might/should accept a higher value. To his credit, Peter at GSR did suggest this a long time ago and promised to send me one up to try. However, I'm still waiting.
How is all this related?
Well, having removed my GSR induction kit and reverted to standard I'm still getting that bloody irritating beep beep (and it's still unpredictable as to when it's going to do it too). I've discussed this at length with a Fiat mechanic (and tuning enthusiast) and we agree that in theory, at least, you should be able to run a GSR (or similar) induction without the beep beep on a standard map car provided the MAF is housed properly. Those with longer memories will recall that Red (albeit on a 2.4) chopped up an induction kit or two to incorporate the standard MAF into the GSR design. I think that might be part of the solution. I think we can largely agree that the standard induction is very restrictive and that the GSR induction is perhaps a little too much - so a half way house of some kind is needed.
Muppet might be some of the way there, if I find the time I have found some nice tubing to make up a prototype induction. On the other hand, can I really be bothered?
Probably not, if I'm honest
Interesting stuff
I've been a tad busy of late hence a lack of posts on any forum but I have found out that the beep beep (how gay does that sound?!) on my JTD is entirely down to the Red Dot remap...... essentially the Fiat ECU & sensors do not like the amount of boost it's running one little bit.
Solution?
Replace the map sensor with something that might/should accept a higher value. To his credit, Peter at GSR did suggest this a long time ago and promised to send me one up to try. However, I'm still waiting.
How is all this related?
Well, having removed my GSR induction kit and reverted to standard I'm still getting that bloody irritating beep beep (and it's still unpredictable as to when it's going to do it too). I've discussed this at length with a Fiat mechanic (and tuning enthusiast) and we agree that in theory, at least, you should be able to run a GSR (or similar) induction without the beep beep on a standard map car provided the MAF is housed properly. Those with longer memories will recall that Red (albeit on a 2.4) chopped up an induction kit or two to incorporate the standard MAF into the GSR design. I think that might be part of the solution. I think we can largely agree that the standard induction is very restrictive and that the GSR induction is perhaps a little too much - so a half way house of some kind is needed.
Muppet might be some of the way there, if I find the time I have found some nice tubing to make up a prototype induction. On the other hand, can I really be bothered?
Probably not, if I'm honest
