2013-04-26 11.03.06.jpg

Panda (Classic) John Dragon Man's Seat Marbella Fun

Introduction

Well guys and girls. i could not help my self when i saw this come in to our local scrap yard.

1994 Marbella with 20,079 miles on the clock. looks like it has not gone around the clock as the interior and parts of the engine and gearbox still look like new.

heres some pictures of how i came to it at the scrap yard:


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here you can see the melted wire:
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Stand by for some more pictures, and of course online video logs via Youtube!


bit of a story of how i found the car:

A few days ago (on the 23rd) me and a friend, went around another friends house. i parked up and used his (the friend we went around to see's) car to go down to the scrap yard (he is not far from it).
we had a good walk around and my friend found some more sound proofing for Talon (as he is very good at this) and some other odd bits (which i was told i could have for free - best scrap yard ever!).
on leaving the scrap yard a lorry came down the driveway looking for a way through to a business place. we told the lorry driver to follow us to where he needed to go as my friend knew the way to it.

on the way we passed a place i use to work at. as we went past the friend i brought with me noticed a seat marbella parked up in one of the car park bays. i didn't see much of it and only the back of the car, but noted the unusual reg number.
anyway. a day or so later (on the 26th) the same friend who spotted the car went to the same scrap yard we visited on the 23rd to get some bits for his car, and what car just so happens to be sat in the row of cars ready to have all of there vital fluids / environmental hazards removed? the little seat marbella. so he gets on the phone and rings me up.

I then ring up the scrap yard and ask them to hold the car and not to put it through the scrapping process as i would like to know if they would sell it.
they told me that it came in late on the 24th and i was lucky to catch it just in time. they gave me a price of £350 which was quite a bit for me so i was not really that bothered. my friend told me it was in good condition with no rust.
so i was just going to go down after they processed it for scrap as i wanted the rust free doors off it. (i know Sisley owners and Marbella doors.. :rolleyes:)

anyway. this morning (27th) i got a phone call from the scrap yard.
"you were interested in the marbella? i've stuck it to one side for you if you want to come down and have a look at it..."

well i could not resist.. even if it was just to see how good them doors were.. (ohhh those marbella doors..:yum::p:p). i drove right up to the gates and parked up. walked in and was greeted by this happy.. yet sad looking little red marbella.

well i looked around it found i could not get the bonnet open, would not pop up when i tried to open it. i did in the end get it open and soon spotted the "causes of death fault".
a really melted wire leading from the alternator that should of been connected to the starter motor, it somehow worked free and arced to the engine block causing the alternator to lock up and burn the diode bridge out. it also had short run issues like quite a bit of water logged oil in the oil filler (these engines get that, its normal), a smashed front headlight, on the inside the drivers side seat belt has been worn by something causing it to fray, and it is also missing a wing mirror.

inside the car was a notice saying that the car will not start and it was to be towed for scrap at 13:00 on the 24/04/13. i also found some paperwork with the previous owners name and address. (i was later able to track down the previous owner using this and retrieve the super rare parcel shelf! :D)

well despite the niggles that it had.. i just could not help myself... the car was rust free, solid as the first day it was put together.
so i end up talking to the guy on the weigh bridge and he said that i could take it for £325... delivered to my home address.:slayer:

and so, i now own a 1994 Seat Marbella "Fun" :D

it just so happens that my brother is taking driving lessons and i think that it would make the perfect car to welcome him into the life of driving a car.
keep this hush hush.. he does not know yet that this will be his car. ;)

Edits:
As of 17/08/2013 the car is now back on the road after its scrap yard rescue!!! High Five!
soon after the car was put in my brothers name as it made the insurance go down a lot.

Edit: This is a photo of the marbella when my brother sold it:
not sure what its max pressure is but a cinq/sei is set between 0.8-1.2bar from factory (surprisingly wide tolerance IMO). My turbo runs a 5 bar pump but is delivering 1.2bar to stock spi injector and 2.5bar rising to 3bar on boost to the extra injector. Pump is in tank type and loads and loads of cars have one that is transferable into the sender unit.
 
right, i now have the complete system from off a fiat cinquecento

all sensors, throttle body, loom, ECU, vac lines, throttle cable, relays.. everything.

the only thing missing is the fuel pump. looking on ebay.. i was like How much??!!!!!!!!
so i am going to say a very big Hell No to buying a in-line fuel pump rated for 1bar / 15 PSI.

so what i intend to do is make a swirl pot. (yes i look at those too, again How Much?!!)
should not be too hard. i have all things to braze with so i will give it a shot.

it just needs to be big enough to house a fuel pump from some other car (maybe the 2 bar fuel pump from a 1.2l punto... given the 899 TB is self regulating :cool:) and have 4 pipes coming off it.

the fuel tank return at the very top so it bleeds any air out of the swirl pot
i will be "filling" this swirl pot using the marbellas original diaphragm pump. the electronic pump will then pump it out of the swirl pot, through the throttle body and return it back into the swirl pot.

the only thing i need to do is find a suitable "container" i can use as the swirl pot... and i think.. theres a few components from off big aircon units that would work well. i will see.
i would like it to be about the size of a coffee pot made out of mild/stainless steel, brass or copper with a screw top lid (so i can get the pump into it.

if not i will have to braze or weld up a container. no biggie.

i have a video uploading of the wiring loom and all its components, and where the connectors plug in if it was on an 899 engine. i'll stick it up when it finishes uploading.
 
he is :)
with any hope it will run as smooth as an injected car should, with the economics of a cinquecento!

this later "high MPG fault" these ECU controlled marbellas have leads me to wonder if that is why i have not yet seen another.
just shows, the old technology works the best.

the only reason why i did not go down the route of converting it back to a distributor and points was because i would have needed to get hold of hard to get parts. the 6F cinquecento ECU is rare, but all the kit to convert the 903 back to points is even rarer! besides, injection is apparently more economical than a carb setup.

[MadScientist]
i was looking at what it takes to convert an engine to injected.. and using this early cinquecento ECU setup makes it all quite easy.
really, i think i may start collecting all the bits that make up the cinquecento engine's "running gear" for future projects!

....4 identical lawn mower engines running together controlled by a ecu. its doable.. easy doable!
[/MadScientist] :devil::idea::devil:
 
the only reason why i did not go down the route of converting it back to a distributor and points was because i would have needed to get hold of hard to get parts. the 6F cinquecento ECU is rare, but all the kit to convert the 903 back to points is even rarer! besides, injection is apparently more economical than a carb setup.

I really don't understand the whole carb with an ECU system? What does the ECU do? Does it still have a choke? How can an ECU control a carb, just can't get my head round it :confused:
 
yeah. its hard. it has a normal carburetor with a choke, just has some.. electronic intervening involved using about 3 solenoid valves.

the marbella has plugged into its loom:
a 3 wire lambda sensor, a "Throttle Position Sensor" (TPS), a crank shaft sensor, a few solenoids in the carb, a twin coil pack, and that i think is it :/
no temperature sensor, or map sensor.

however the cinquecento has: a different kind of lambda sensor (4 wires), a "Throttle Position Sensor" (TPS), a crank shaft sensor, a stepper motor on the throttle body, an air temperature sensor on the throttle body, the throttle body fuel injector, a twin coil pack, a temperature sensor on the thermostat, a "Absolute Manifold Pressure" (MAP/vacuum) sensor, the fuel pump, and a solenoid valve that controls fuel vapor gasses through a carbon filter (the marbella has this, only it is controlled by vacuum from the intake manifold.)

so as you can see the cinquecento 6F ECU is a lot more advanced than the marbella 6F ECU.

the marbella's ECU mearly controls the spark and how much fuel gets into the carburetor's main jet. it is still hugely wasteful having a manual choke, and the cold starts are a b1tch!
not to mention that the cat converter will not last long with it having such a wasteful design.

now i have had all the solenoids out, cleaned them and made sure they all work but still it suffers from high fuel consumption. i think modern day fuel additives have just eaten away at everything inside the carb. something that will not effect an injection system.

i do hate to "change it from factory condition" but in the light of keeping it a daily driving vehicle it has to be done.

think i have said it before, absolutely -NO- hacking of any kind is going to be done to the car. no wires cut, no pipes cut short, nothing. All modifications are being done to the cinquecento loom and parts to fit into and around the marbella's original design.
therefor if at any point in time i wish to take it back to the original spec i can do just by bolting the carburetor back on and plugging the original loom and ECU back in and fitting the 2 original sensors (lambda and crank sensor).
its going to be a complete 100% swap back and forth system.

i love hacking things.. but not this marbella its too good to "modify".
 
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ahh, hey all.

well were thinking of selling the marbella. (me and my brother). having 3 cars in the family is becoming just to much to afford. i'll be getting alex insured to drive talon as i dont drive him much so alex may as well drive him.

just wondering.. is anybody interested in our marbella at all? wondering how much some one would be willing to pay for a completely rust free one? we kinda want to see how much its worth first as if it is only as much as what i paid for it we might as well keep it.

sadly alex tells me that its "not fast enough" for him. he wants something with more acceleration. (he drives more quick than me.. i dont really care how slow the car pulls off at.)

tbh, i was thinking of selling talon, and having the marbella for myself and alex as a share car but it all depends on how much it is worth.

any guesses guys?
 
Cant see another one for sale of the normal big sites so its a hard one to price mate, if some one is specifically after one then I think it could and will command a very good price as they actualy look harder to buy than a good mk1/2 4x4 panda.

But then, your markets very limited and it may be priced against other affordable cheep to insure/buy/run cars. If i didn't already have a collection I would love it.
 
ahh, hey all.

well were thinking of selling the marbella. (me and my brother). having 3 cars in the family is becoming just to much to afford. i'll be getting alex insured to drive talon as i dont drive him much so alex may as well drive him.

just wondering.. is anybody interested in our marbella at all? wondering how much some one would be willing to pay for a completely rust free one? we kinda want to see how much its worth first as if it is only as much as what i paid for it we might as well keep it.

sadly alex tells me that its "not fast enough" for him. he wants something with more acceleration. (he drives more quick than me.. i dont really care how slow the car pulls off at.)

tbh, i was thinking of selling talon, and having the marbella for myself and alex as a share car but it all depends on how much it is worth.

any guesses guys?

I'd expect it to be less than a Panda on general sale. £600-£800? Should really be £1000-£1200 but not sure there's a market for them?

Someone on here is potentially your best bet but most of us are Panda'd out space wise!! :(

There are a couple of people mulling Panda's for their kids as first cars. For the right money someone like scout500 might be in the market in the next few months, though he wants a Panda really.....
 
The fuelpump I used comes from Opel (Vauxhall) It is an inline pump, made by bosch. I payed only 25€ for it at a local scrap yard. It works perfectly. It is fitted on the right side of the car, near the ECU with a piece of foam around it because it's quite noisy ;)

Same as fitted in this 1994 Marbella which has been converted too. (the chap does now own a 1984 Fiat Panda with 48hp Diesel engine which he built last winter :) )

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what model vauxhall? wonder if they have the same over here.. the most common are the corsa, vectra,and astra..

The fuelpump I used comes from Opel (Vauxhall) It is an inline pump, made by bosch. I payed only 25€ for it at a local scrap yard. It works perfectly. It is fitted on the right side of the car, near the ECU with a piece of foam around it because it's quite noisy ;)

Same as fitted in this 1994 Marbella which has been converted too. (the chap does now own a 1984 Fiat Panda with 48hp Diesel engine which he built last winter :) )

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I am impressed too. It is great fun driving small car everyday. I wish you luck man.
 
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