2013-04-26 11.03.06.jpg

Panda (Classic) John Dragon Man's Seat Marbella Fun

Introduction

Well guys and girls. i could not help my self when i saw this come in to our local scrap yard.

1994 Marbella with 20,079 miles on the clock. looks like it has not gone around the clock as the interior and parts of the engine and gearbox still look like new.

heres some pictures of how i came to it at the scrap yard:


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here you can see the melted wire:
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Stand by for some more pictures, and of course online video logs via Youtube!


bit of a story of how i found the car:

A few days ago (on the 23rd) me and a friend, went around another friends house. i parked up and used his (the friend we went around to see's) car to go down to the scrap yard (he is not far from it).
we had a good walk around and my friend found some more sound proofing for Talon (as he is very good at this) and some other odd bits (which i was told i could have for free - best scrap yard ever!).
on leaving the scrap yard a lorry came down the driveway looking for a way through to a business place. we told the lorry driver to follow us to where he needed to go as my friend knew the way to it.

on the way we passed a place i use to work at. as we went past the friend i brought with me noticed a seat marbella parked up in one of the car park bays. i didn't see much of it and only the back of the car, but noted the unusual reg number.
anyway. a day or so later (on the 26th) the same friend who spotted the car went to the same scrap yard we visited on the 23rd to get some bits for his car, and what car just so happens to be sat in the row of cars ready to have all of there vital fluids / environmental hazards removed? the little seat marbella. so he gets on the phone and rings me up.

I then ring up the scrap yard and ask them to hold the car and not to put it through the scrapping process as i would like to know if they would sell it.
they told me that it came in late on the 24th and i was lucky to catch it just in time. they gave me a price of £350 which was quite a bit for me so i was not really that bothered. my friend told me it was in good condition with no rust.
so i was just going to go down after they processed it for scrap as i wanted the rust free doors off it. (i know Sisley owners and Marbella doors.. :rolleyes:)

anyway. this morning (27th) i got a phone call from the scrap yard.
"you were interested in the marbella? i've stuck it to one side for you if you want to come down and have a look at it..."

well i could not resist.. even if it was just to see how good them doors were.. (ohhh those marbella doors..:yum::p:p). i drove right up to the gates and parked up. walked in and was greeted by this happy.. yet sad looking little red marbella.

well i looked around it found i could not get the bonnet open, would not pop up when i tried to open it. i did in the end get it open and soon spotted the "causes of death fault".
a really melted wire leading from the alternator that should of been connected to the starter motor, it somehow worked free and arced to the engine block causing the alternator to lock up and burn the diode bridge out. it also had short run issues like quite a bit of water logged oil in the oil filler (these engines get that, its normal), a smashed front headlight, on the inside the drivers side seat belt has been worn by something causing it to fray, and it is also missing a wing mirror.

inside the car was a notice saying that the car will not start and it was to be towed for scrap at 13:00 on the 24/04/13. i also found some paperwork with the previous owners name and address. (i was later able to track down the previous owner using this and retrieve the super rare parcel shelf! :D)

well despite the niggles that it had.. i just could not help myself... the car was rust free, solid as the first day it was put together.
so i end up talking to the guy on the weigh bridge and he said that i could take it for £325... delivered to my home address.:slayer:

and so, i now own a 1994 Seat Marbella "Fun" :D

it just so happens that my brother is taking driving lessons and i think that it would make the perfect car to welcome him into the life of driving a car.
keep this hush hush.. he does not know yet that this will be his car. ;)

Edits:
As of 17/08/2013 the car is now back on the road after its scrap yard rescue!!! High Five!
soon after the car was put in my brothers name as it made the insurance go down a lot.

Edit: This is a photo of the marbella when my brother sold it:
i have had MOT's without a functioning speedo on various occasions - was told if it has a tacho that has to work but speedo doesn't. I thought it was weird and perhaps it wasn't true but the cinq didn't have a working speedo for several years and was never a problem at MOT time, and my old punto60 speedo stopped working days before an MOT too.
 
i have had MOT's without a functioning speedo on various occasions - was told if it has a tacho that has to work but speedo doesn't. I thought it was weird and perhaps it wasn't true but the cinq didn't have a working speedo for several years and was never a problem at MOT time, and my old punto60 speedo stopped working days before an MOT too.

The speedo is part of the test and has to illuminate. It also fails if it's incomplete, clearly inoperative, or the dial glass broken/missing per the testers manual.

Because the car isn't driven it's not "clearly inoperative" so won't usually fail. I've had them pass while broken because it's not checked carefully (y)
 
i used to go to college on a early 1960's mobylette.. that didnt have a speedo, barley had any brakes, lights only worked when moving and the best of it is.. the engine didnt run for one mot

but it still passed an MOT.... :/

i rode it there under engine power, he could not get it started (he didnt have "the knack"), MOTed it as he saw me ride it in, told me "well its only a puhsbike when all said and done", passed it, and i rode it home.


wonder where it is now.. an old bloke bought it off me as it reminded him of his first bike.

i have have a thing for classics

things you find in scrap yards..
 
i used to go to college on a early 1960's mobylette.. that didnt have a speedo, barley had any brakes, lights only worked when moving and the best of it is.. the engine didnt run for one mot

but it still passed an MOT.... :/

i rode it there under engine power, he could not get it started (he didnt have "the knack"), MOTed it as he saw me ride it in, told me "well its only a puhsbike when all said and done", passed it, and i rode it home.


wonder where it is now.. an old bloke bought it off me as it reminded him of his first bike.

i have have a thing for classics

things you find in scrap yards..


Is this you on it :devil:

 
i have had MOT's without a functioning speedo on various occasions - was told if it has a tacho that has to work but speedo doesn't. I thought it was weird and perhaps it wasn't true but the cinq didn't have a working speedo for several years and was never a problem at MOT time, and my old punto60 speedo stopped working days before an MOT too.
Changed last year, as of about May I think an inoperative speedo is a fail. As Palio says though while it is technically a fail, it isn't actually tested as the car is stationary for the test, so unless it's spotted for some reason it'll still pass. Got speedo issues with my Pug so was watching carefully:eek:
 
:yeahthat:

It's not separately tested - only if clearly inoperative, glass broken, etc - as in my post below.

I've had them pass many times with a broken speedo, and never seen a tester check it on the rollers. (y)

In a similar way the bonnet has to be opened for the MOT and has to lock down. If yours sticks you take it into the Mot open (best to tell the tester) - he checks vin etc he needs to, locks down the bonnet - passes despite now not being able to reopen the bonnet. It's just working to the rules. :idea:
 
there is just countless little loopholes like this.. rear wiper if present has to work but if it doesn't you can just remove the arm and leave the motor etc in place and it will pass. Broken nearside mirror is a fail but you can take it off completely and not fail. Spare tyre must be good for road use but no spare is ok - and it goes on & on.
 
Some pictures from the meet Alex and I attended. Alex in the marbella and myself in Talon.



Clean! but missing one of the suspension strut top covers :( it has always been missing though.




fine cars them!

i have to say, i am very proud of how the Marbella has turned out. my brother treats it really nice :)
(he is still using the original under seat speakers! the quality is rather.. flat)
 
ahh well, i went to the scrap yard today to pick up a nice digital dash from a poor fiat tempra.

anyway while i was looking for the tempra i found a poor L reg white fiat cinquecento (with 30k on the clock and looked mint :( ). with it being an L reg it had the magic 6F ECU and engine wiring loom. so i managed to get both loom and ECU. oh, fuel pump and MAP sensor also.

i had a good look at the 899 engine. to convert the 903 i would need to use the rocker cover from off an 899 engine as it is used to mount the throttle body to the cylinder head.

now i am just making a list here of parts i will/may need to do this, feel free to add to anything if you think i have missed something.

lambda sensor
complete throttle body with all fitting bolts (the 1.1 SPI punto throttle body looks the same but a wider diameter... hmmm)
899 rocker cover with all fitting bolts

and i think that is it..

on the loom there was 2 connectors connecting the engine's loom to the rest of the cars loom. one connector was a single thickish wire, near the passenger side headlamp (on the cinq) and the other was a 3 pin connector near the battery tray (again on the cinq)

the single wire connector i "assume" is a live wire input to the loom and ECU

on the 3 pin connector, i "assume" that one of the wires/pins connects to the (on a cinq dash) the injection light, one connects to an ignition live but the 3rd pin.. i am unsure about. it could go to the battery light. ???
from what i remember on the 899 cinq is it only has one injection light, a CODE light that this loom does not have.

wish i kept a hold of my old cinqucento haynes manual for a wiring diagram.. ill have to ask about in the cinq section.

whatever, this project is on! the marbella uses way to much fuel, and i do not have much faith in a "ECU controlled carbed system with a cat converter" every thing i have read about it says that they are prone to messing up.

off to search the cinq section for an engine wiring diagram!
 
If you want to convert a 903 do NOT use a cinquecento with the code system/code key. It won't work at all. You'll need a pre-1996 exemple.

The rocker cover can be cutted so the original Marbella one will fit, makes it much easier to set the valve clearance.

You'll need the map sensor, TDC sensor (as the marbella one doesn't work with the Fiat ecu) Lambda sond (4-wired) a 5 bar bosch electric fuel pump.

the wiring:
you'll need to cut the original Marbella wires near the ecu: it are four, and you only need the black one (12V from the ignition key) and the white-red one (the engine check light/sound).
Connect the black one to the brown cinque wire and the white-red to the white wire to make the ecu work.

Further you'll need a Fiat Panda 900 I.E. throttlecable, because the cinquecento one is way to short.

Did you take the ignition coils of the Cinque as well? You'll need them too, because the original ones of the Marbella won't work at all, as the coil cables won't do.

If you have a closer look on this topic (maybe use google translate to translate it from Dutch) Here's someone who wrote all down, with a lot of images which make it very clear.

http://forum.fiatpandaclub.nl/viewtopic.php?f=49&t=9049&start=45

good luck!
 
The fuel pump fot the fiat's spi is 1.2 bar, not 5 bar:)

John,I wonder why your marbella{ well your brothers} consumes so much fuel. When I measured the amount of fuel my 1991 pandabella burns, it was about 4.5l for every 100km, driving constant speed 90-100 km/h and about 5.5-6l when driving 100% inside city.Car is pre euro1 , simple carburator without messy ECU and cat. That is the reason why it works well probably? Some guys on the polish forum also have problems with high fuel consumption in their euro1 marbellas.
 
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the high fuel consumption is a common problem with the ecu-marbella's. It is just because of the fact that the system is very delicate and actually doesn't work quit well. It actually allways runs to rich. Just by adding more air via a stepper motor on the front it should use less..

I used a 5 bar bosch pump, and the fiat injection does NOT run under 3 bars of pressure. It has an internal cut-off when the pressure gets lower. (that's what I found out whilst building my own Panda 34 Injection.
 
ginkelvanmichiel, my theory is that if i swap over "everything" from a cinquecento 899 engine, it should work just like a cinquecento engine. i have the places for all of the sensors to go already on the engine, and the best bit is, the cinquecento wiring loom looks like it will fit strait on to the cars loom using the 2 connectors i mentioned in my last post.
after all we are only talking about a 4cc difference in engine size.


i am hoping that the throttle cable from a cinq will fit. with us being right hand drive it gives us a little more slack. looking at the one i saw in the scrap yard, it seemed plenty long enough to reach.

i think that if i use all of the cinq's system (electronics and fuel pump) i should not have an issue
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Well I didi it the same way, and whilst swapping I came across serveral issues, but they're tackable. The only thing non standard is the fuel pump. The injector simply won't run whith the mechanical pump fitted. You'll need an injection pump. But with that, it wil run perfectly. Not fast (due to the catalyst converter, and the acceleration tends to be a bit less with the injection) but it wil start every time you'll want it to :)
 
All original pumps for fiat spi, both bosch and magneti marelli spis were 1.1 or 1.2 bar, almost all cars with spi produced by bosch and marelli use 1 to about 1.5 bar pumps. 3 bar pumps are ok for naturally aspirated mpi fiats. Delta integrale uses 4 bar :) also some other turbo fiats lancias etc. 5 bar pump is used with bigger jets for tunning these engines to 300 400 hp.... In my opinion it is ok that you use 5 bar pump to feed 40hp marbella(y) but the factory pump is 1.2 bar.
 
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